NationStates

Great Nepal wrote:

The Nihilistic view wrote:
No prime minister is elected by the country. A GE is the election of mnay local representatives to carry out a party manifesto.

So what do you say to those who claimed EU was fundamentally undemocratic because their commissioners were unelected by the public, merely voted in by elected EU parliament?

The Nihilistic view wrote:So basically the coup rests on whether the other side can be arsed to turn up for the most important internal party vote of the year? LAMO.

You seriously need a leader who will put the internal party workings in order. It's like they were designed by Conservatives to hamstring you.

Wolfmanne2 wrote:Corbyn will probably win the NEC vote tomorrow. Only two of the CLP reps, the Young Labour rep, two of three PLP reps (if George Howarth has not replaced Dennis Skinner yet, in which case Skinner is still on), Glennis Willmott (MEP rep), Jon Ashworth, Keith Vaz, James Asser, Tom Watson, the two Councillors (one might vote for Corbyn being on the ballot though) and the USDAW trade union rep are opposed to Corbyn. 17 is the magic number, assuming full turnout.

What the moderates are banking on is that some trade union reps are unable to get time off to attend or that some grow a pair and rebel (more likely to happen if a secret ballot is used). I'm not sure, but some Corbynists might also be under investigation by the compliance unit, so they may not be able to attend. Labour Party's rulebook is complicated.

EDIT: Two trade union reps are also on holiday apparently. 15 is the magic number now if they don't fly back quickly and considering the moderates in total number about 13, plus assuming that some other trade union reps are unable to attend (somewhat probable as many live outside London) or some rebel, they might just edge it. Wouldn't necessarily count on it.

Mad hatters in jeans wrote:

Wolfmanne2 wrote:Corbyn will probably win the NEC vote tomorrow. Only two of the CLP reps, the Young Labour rep, two of three PLP reps (if George Howarth has not replaced Dennis Skinner yet, in which case Skinner is still on), Glennis Willmott (MEP rep), Jon Ashworth, Keith Vaz, James Asser, Tom Watson, the two Councillors (one might vote for Corbyn being on the ballot though) and the USDAW trade union rep are opposed to Corbyn. 17 is the magic number, assuming full turnout.

What the moderates are banking on is that some trade union reps are unable to get time off to attend or that some grow a pair and rebel (more likely to happen if a secret ballot is used). I'm not sure, but some Corbynists might also be under investigation by the compliance unit, so they may not be able to attend. Labour Party's rulebook is complicated.

EDIT: Two trade union reps are also on holiday apparently. 15 is the magic number now if they don't fly back quickly and considering the moderates in total number about 13, plus assuming that some other trade union reps are unable to attend (somewhat probable as many live outside London) or some rebel, they might just edge it. Wouldn't necessarily count on it.

Then the moderates stopped being moderate.

Wolfmanne2 wrote:

The Nihilistic view wrote:So basically the coup rests on whether the other side can be arsed to turn up for the most important internal party vote of the year? LAMO.

You seriously need a leader who will put the internal party workings in order. It's like they were designed by Conservatives to hamstring you.

Well, what did you expect? It's the Labour Party .

I can imagine the hard left will try use procedure to stall it for as long as possible so that Union McUnionface from Unite the Union who is pushing the pedal to metal on the M25 can get there on time to vote.

EDIT: Honestly, they should televise it, it'll make the world see that we, the Labour Party, are a solid 10/10 on the prick scale.

The Nihilistic view wrote:

Wolfmanne2 wrote:Well, what did you expect? It's the Labour Party .

I can imagine the hard left will try use procedure to stall it for as long as possible so that Union McUnionface from Unite the Union who is pushing the pedal to metal on the M25 can get there on time to vote.

EDIT: Honestly, they should televise it, it'll make the world see that we, the Labour Party, are a solid 10/10 on the prick scale.

It would make a great soap opera. It must be soul destroying sometimes to be part of. I have Corbyn's policies but really can't see what good it does to look like this. Surely any gain from getting rid of him is lost by hat is going on to do it.

Wolfmanne2 wrote:http://www.adamsmith.org/blog/the-sad-sorry-state-of-the-conservative-party

Also, Nihil and Lamadia, any perspective on this?

The Nihilistic view wrote:Somebody has not got over the result and can't separate political reality from their own wet dreams?

Britanno 2 wrote:

The Nihilistic view wrote:Somebody has not got over the result and can't separate political reality from their own wet dreams?

Why does speaking out about being opposed to the leave vote make every Brexiter automatically see them as butthurt over the result?

Wolfmanne2 wrote:

Mad hatters in jeans wrote:Then the moderates stopped being moderate.

It's rulebook friendly. I believe in upholding the rulebook. And trust me, you'd get worse shit at CLP level. Labour Party politics is brutal.

EDIT: The lowest of the low is easily Labour Students, though Young Labour come a close second, speaking as someone involved in the latter and who will be involved in the prior.

Wolfmanne2 wrote:

The Nihilistic view wrote:
It would make a great soap opera. It must be soul destroying sometimes to be part of. I have Corbyn's policies but really can't see what good it does to look like this. Surely any gain from getting rid of him is lost by hat is going on to do it.

In all honesty, there are a lot of nasty people involved in Labour. I'd like to think I'm one of the nice guys, but I'm not someone who gets triggered and storms out the room. So I probably don't have a soul.

The Nihilistic view wrote:

Britanno 2 wrote:Why does speaking out about being opposed to the leave vote make every Brexiter automatically see them as butthurt over the result?

If you don't understand why people voted the way they did or you just don't want to see it or you just ignore it like this fellow. Yes it does, there are plenty of remaining voters who have taken it on the chin but not this guy.

There is a difference between trying to change people's minds to be against brexit and actively lobbying to implement Brexit in a way that does not really adress the two main reasons people voted leave. This guy is the latter, can't realise the folly in what he writes.

Irona wrote:Why wouldn't May call an early election? At this point Labours screwed regardless of whether Corbyn stays

Freefall11111 wrote:

Irona wrote:Why wouldn't May call an early election? At this point Labours screwed regardless of whether Corbyn stays

It's an unnecessary risk.

Irona wrote:

Freefall11111 wrote:It's an unnecessary risk.

Really? They have a small majority and given the state of the Labour Party it's hardly likely that will go anywhere but up. Plus labour being crushed again would only decrease the effectivness of it's opposition when it inevitably implodes again

Souseiseki wrote:

Irona wrote:Really? They have a small majority and given the state of the Labour Party it's hardly likely that will go anywhere but up. Plus labour being crushed again would only decrease the effectivness of it's opposition when it inevitably implodes again

if there's one thing cameron and boris have taught us it is that taking a big risk because there's no way it could backfire unexpectedly and destroy your career is totes cool and safe idea and you should totally do it

Irona wrote:

Souseiseki wrote:
if there's one thing cameron and boris have taught us it is that taking a big risk because there's no way it could backfire unexpectedly and destroy your career is totes cool and safe idea and you should totally do it

I'm still not sure Boris is done yet.

That probably is her thinking, but the way the Labour Party is now. It's horrific.

Marcurix wrote:

Irona wrote:I'm still not sure Boris is done yet.

That probably is her thinking, but the way the Labour Party is now. It's horrific.

Eh. Honestly, everything is a mess right now to the point the Labour leader contest doesn't hold my interest.all that much.

Souseiseki wrote:

The Nihilistic view wrote:
No prime minister is elected by the country. A GE is the election of mnay local representatives to carry out a party manifesto.

how do you feel about how the media and conservatives (like may) slammed gordon brown as "unelected" and not having a "democratic mandate"?

Geilinor wrote:

The Nihilistic view wrote:
No prime minister is elected by the country. A GE is the election of mnay local representatives to carry out a party manifesto.

No European commission is elected by the public. A European commission is the outcome of appointments by elected national governments.

Risottia wrote:

Souseiseki wrote:
how do you feel about how the media and conservatives (like may) slammed gordon brown as "unelected" and not having a "democratic mandate"?

That's ENTIRELY different because Brown, just like Juncker, is, uhm ... A commie! Yes! Commies can't have a democratic mandate of course! And they're commies because, urr... OI LOOK OVER THERE, MIGRANTS SWARMING OVER THE WHITE CLIFFS IT'S THE EU'S FAULT!

Frank Zipper wrote:Looking forward to finding out who is in and out when May announces her cabinet. I suspect she won't make many changes at first. She will have to create a role to handle Brexit, and give it to a pro-Brexit person (so possibly Leadsom?) and put someone in as Home Secretary (really hoping it isn't Grayling).

I think she is going to have a difficult winter with rising food prices, people feeling the effect of the low pound on the cost of Christmas, making everything seem a bit grim. Probably be some more industrial action to add to the mix.