UK Politics Thread III: Thready McThreadface (+ Jo Cox)

[Wolfmanne2]

It's not condescension. I have a virulent disgust of terrorist organisations from the IRA to Daesh to Hamas.

Don't we all.

But virulent disgust doesn't get us peace processes.

We don't negotiate with groups that want to drive a nation into the sea and another that wants to see Western civilization burn. We could do business with the IRA, but the the solution to Palestinian or Daesh murderers are bullets and drone strikes.

[Geilinor]

David Cameron lifted the ban on women in combat roles in the Military: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36746917?ocid=socialflow_facebook&ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbcnews&ns_source=facebook

Hey, America finally beat you on social progress.

[Spiffier]

Are physical fitness tests the same for both sexes?

Not currently, although I believe the intent is that they will be for the teeth arms.

If they have lower standards than the males, then they shouldn't be put in combat roles, no. Raise the standard, then talk about combat roles.

[Imperializt Russia]

Don't we all.

But virulent disgust doesn't get us peace processes.

We don't negotiate with groups that want to drive a nation into the sea and another that wants to see Western civilization burn. We could do business with the IRA, but the the solution to Palestinian or Daesh murderers are bullets and drone strikes.

Daesh, yes, but not Palestine.

[Wolfmanne2]

We don't negotiate with groups that want to drive a nation into the sea and another that wants to see Western civilization burn. We could do business with the IRA, but the the solution to Palestinian or Daesh murderers are bullets and drone strikes.

Daesh, yes, but not Palestine.

Ever since Hamas came into ascendancy over Fatah, Palestine has become irrevocably difficult and more complex to negotiate with. The Israelis are rightfully more fearful of Palestine under Hamas, although I must say their approach to negotiations is pretty shit in itself.

[Vassenor]

Not currently, although I believe the intent is that they will be for the teeth arms.

If they have lower standards than the males, then they shouldn't be put in combat roles, no. Raise the standard, then talk about combat roles.

The statement makes it clear that women attempting to enter combat roles will be held to the same standards as men from the get-go.

[Imperializt Russia]

Daesh, yes, but not Palestine.

Ever since Hamas came into ascendancy over Fatah, Palestine has become irrevocably difficult and more complex to negotiate with. The Israelis are rightfully more fearful of Palestine under Hamas, although I must say their approach to negotiations is pretty shit in itself.

Israel isn't exactly helping that by what they do to Palestine, Gaza especially.

Repeatedly bombing its one power station is a little difficult to justify. Along with its handful of hospitals. Along with thousands of its homes.

[Wolfmanne2]

Ever since Hamas came into ascendancy over Fatah, Palestine has become irrevocably difficult and more complex to negotiate with. The Israelis are rightfully more fearful of Palestine under Hamas, although I must say their approach to negotiations is pretty shit in itself.

Israel isn't exactly helping that by what they do to Palestine, Gaza especially.

Repeatedly bombing its one power station is a little difficult to justify. Along with its handful of hospitals. Along with thousands of its homes.

Promising to drive said power into the sea, launching rockets into a stronger power thus compromising the security of your population and than using said population as a bunch of human shields is also very difficult to justify.

[Imperializt Russia]

Israel isn't exactly helping that by what they do to Palestine, Gaza especially.

Repeatedly bombing its one power station is a little difficult to justify. Along with its handful of hospitals. Along with thousands of its homes.

Promising to drive said power into the sea, launching rockets into a stronger power thus compromising the security of your population and than using said population as a bunch of human shields is also very difficult to justify.

Pretty sure no-one is justifying their actions.
No-one's justifying FARC's actions, but even they're finally about to reach peace for Columbia now.

But Israel is a state, and an occupying state at that, and should be held to a much higher standard than it's apparently willing to play by.

[Souseiseki]

Hearing from Tory MPs, including May backers, that having been back to the patch, they're now expecting a close race

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[Imperializt Russia]

Is Gideon dead again, btw?

[Wolfmanne2]

Promising to drive said power into the sea, launching rockets into a stronger power thus compromising the security of your population and than using said population as a bunch of human shields is also very difficult to justify.

Pretty sure no-one is justifying their actions.
No-one's justifying FARC's actions, but even they're finally about to reach peace for Columbia now.

But Israel is a state, and an occupying state at that, and should be held to a much higher standard than it's apparently willing to play by.

I don't disagree with that, though could you elaborate on what you mean by 'occupying state'? I'm not at all supportive of the Netanyahu government and the actions it has taken. But to me, it seems that the Palestinians have more of a desire for 'justice' rather than 'peace'.

[MERIZoC]

Pretty sure no-one is justifying their actions.
No-one's justifying FARC's actions, but even they're finally about to reach peace for Columbia now.

But Israel is a state, and an occupying state at that, and should be held to a much higher standard than it's apparently willing to play by.

I don't disagree with that, though could you elaborate on what you mean by 'occupying state'? I'm not at all supportive of the Netanyahu government and the actions it has taken. But to me, it seems that the Palestinians have more of a desire for 'justice' rather than 'peace'.

Israel keeps military control over areas it has no legitimate claim to.

[Imperializt Russia]

Israel "occupies" Gaza and the West Bank and has done so since either the Six Day War or Yom Kippur War, I don't recall which and it doesn't entirely matter.
It seized these territories during whichever conflict, despite both external pressure and initially a self-imposed condition that they wouldn't take Gaza, the West Bank, or indeed the Sinai.

Caught up in the thrill of victory however, the IDF took all three.

And here we are today.

[Wolfmanne2]

I don't disagree with that, though could you elaborate on what you mean by 'occupying state'? I'm not at all supportive of the Netanyahu government and the actions it has taken. But to me, it seems that the Palestinians have more of a desire for 'justice' rather than 'peace'.

Israel keeps military control over areas it has no legitimate claim to.

What areas? We're not talking about the entire region, as many Palestinian activists seem to believe? Can we be specific?

Israel "occupies" Gaza and the West Bank and has done so since either the Six Day War or Yom Kippur War, I don't recall which and it doesn't entirely matter.
It seized these territories during whichever conflict, despite both external pressure and initially a self-imposed condition that they wouldn't take Gaza, the West Bank, or indeed the Sinai.

Caught up in the thrill of victory however, the IDF took all three.

And here we are today.

Fair enough. That's reasonable and I do think a two-state solution based upon respect for pre-1967 solution has to be a redline in the peace process. The Israelis under Netanyahu seem unwilling to support that, whilst Hamas still have an obsession of driving Israel into the sea and even moderate Palestinian activists cling to a belief that Palestinian refugees should be allowed back into Israel.

[Souseiseki]

https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/751521657215393792

[Vassenor]

https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/751521657215393792

My reaction in a nutshell.

[Imperializt Russia]

https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/751521657215393792

Waiting for this bullshit.
Wasn't expecting it to be from Leadsom.

[Salandriagado]

That doesn't sound very fair to the women who do meet those standards though

Do you want be the one who sends women to a stressful and dangerous environment where, let's say, 90% of the other people are men?

If they consent, sure.

Oh boy, here we go.

So you're saying if a woman meets the physical test and standards for active combat duty, she's somehow still unfit by virtue of being a woman?

No. The problem isn't so much how they will react, it's how everyone else will. Warzones are bad enough without adding the possibility of gender discrimination to the mix.

Warzones strongly tend to have non-soldiers in. Many of those non-soldiers are female. Many are also in a position where they have no real way to defend themselves if the soldiers want to cause problems. If we fucked up the vetting enough to let people that are going to do stuff like that into such a position, I think having some women who are (a) armed, (b) demonstrably tough as hell, (c) known to the perpetrators, and (d) in a position to report the incident available is liable to prevent those sorts of problems, not make them worse.

Don't we all.

But virulent disgust doesn't get us peace processes.

We don't negotiate with groups that want to drive a nation into the sea and another that wants to see Western civilization burn. We could do business with the IRA, but the the solution to Palestinian or Daesh murderers are bullets and drone strikes.

At some point, you need to negotiate. Bombings never, ever produce lasting peace by themselves.

[Malgrave]

https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/751521657215393792

Waiting for this bullshit.
Wasn't expecting it to be from Leadsom.

I'm not surprised really since she kept on saying "As a mother" during the EU referendum debate.

[Imperializt Russia]

Waiting for this bullshit.
Wasn't expecting it to be from Leadsom.

I'm not surprised really since she kept on saying "As a mother" during the EU referendum debate.

"As a mother", she can get fucked.

[Angleter]

https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/751521657215393792

Poor old Stephen Crabb. Last week he was running for Prime Minister; now he's so irrelevant that the scoop on his sexting scandal is shunted off to the side of the front page. In an article which runs for a headline and two paragraphs before mentioning his name.

Leadsom, meanwhile, is still a second-rater, and I still have no idea what anybody sees in her.

[Salandriagado]

I'm not surprised really since she kept on saying "As a mother" during the EU referendum debate.

"As a mother", she can get fucked.

As a mother, she already has.

[Dejanic]

https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/751521657215393792

Poor old Stephen Crabb. Last week he was running for Prime Minister; now he's so irrelevant that the scoop on his sexting scandal is shunted off to the side of the front page. In an article which runs for a headline and two paragraphs before mentioning his name.

Leadsom, meanwhile, is still a second-rater, and I still have no idea what anybody sees in her.

Leadsom doesn't really have enough front bench experience IMO to literally just become the PM.

[Angleter]

Poor old Stephen Crabb. Last week he was running for Prime Minister; now he's so irrelevant that the scoop on his sexting scandal is shunted off to the side of the front page. In an article which runs for a headline and two paragraphs before mentioning his name.

Leadsom, meanwhile, is still a second-rater, and I still have no idea what anybody sees in her.

Leadsom doesn't really have enough front bench experience IMO to literally just become the PM.

Even if the Tories were in Opposition, I just can't see the appeal of her. She's obviously talented enough to get a ministerial position four years after being elected to Parliament, but that's it. She hasn't achieved great things in her ministerial roles, she was the weakest person on the Leave side in that six-way referendum debate, she doesn't come across particularly convincingly in interviews, and so on. The CV and tax stuff is just the icing on the cake. There's literally no reason why I would point to her and say, 'that's a leader'; and she's not even a very good standard-bearer for the Tory Right.

That said, she might make a decent addition to the Cabinet. Depends which jobs are available.