The Jewish Situation

[The United Colonies of Earth]

The crusades

Um what? I don't recall an anti-Jewish crusade.

Not to nitpick, but you don't have to claim every single oppression ever for Judaism.

On their way to the holy land the crusaders would pogrom Jews.
It certainly happened in the first crusade.
wikipedia

[Orthodox States]

I'm fine with Jewish people, I judge a community by its people, not by its history. So far I don't see the Jewish community forming gangs or causing crime

I HATE the American attitude of Israel though, the USA spends 2 billion dollars on Israel, and because of that, we spend 1 billion dollars on Egypt just so another Middle Eastern war between the Jews and the Muslims won't occur again. We have politicians putting Israel ahead of America (Ted Cruz), and for such a close ally, they don't pay their fair share. If Israel existed without the USA playing as a baby-sitter, fine, have your own country, but when the USA does so much for so little, then yes, I don't want to support any country who takes advantage of mine.

[Yaramaqui]

If there was no Torah, there would be no Jewish people. That's simply how it is. And just because the State of Israel seems successful doesn't mean what was truly meant to be. Sure it may seem to be excelling, but another group of people are paying the price for it.

That doesn't mean the Torah actually preserves us. Give me some direct evidence in how adhering to the Torah "preserved' us in actual history please.

לק”י
G-d preserves us. I shall answer that with another question. What defines a Jew? Historically, what makes Jews, Jews? Where do our customs root from? Where do our holidays root from?

[Crockerland]

Zionism is awesome, it is the people who're against Israel which are severely in error. They have no idea as to the repercussions of Israel ceasing to exist in the middle east. If the Palestinians are allowed to have their way, it would devolve into a Muslim fundamentalist state which will export Jihad being that they'll be run by Hamas. It is better for Israel, the only modern and developed bastion of civilization in the region to hold onto their nation and never surrender. Not one step back. Israel shall never ever be Arab just as the Kurile Islands will never be Japanese. They've lost what they had for good.

Well said.

Palestine should stop denying offers for peace and a two-state solution if it wants peace and a two-state solution so badly. El-Amin obviously has no grasp of the history of the region based on his moronic assertion that the Palestinian invaders are somehow the native population.

all the peace deals have been garbage and netanhayu has repeatedly stated he will never accept a two-state solution :-)

Oh well you've asserted that the peace deals were garbage without providing a source or even elaborating on why receiving all of Gaza, half of Jerusalem and most of the west bank (except for settlements) and a proportionate return of land from elsewhere in Israel was garbage, clearly I've lost this debate.

[Zarbifel]

That doesn't mean the Torah actually preserves us. Give me some direct evidence in how adhering to the Torah "preserved' us in actual history please.

לק”י
G-d preserves us. I shall answer that with another question. What defines a Jew? Historically, what makes Jews, Jews? Where do our customs root from? Where do our holidays root from?

I'm not saying it's not important. I want to know how it saved us from the rest of the world.

[House of Judah]

And what do you mean by "#FREEPALESTINE"? End the Jewish character of Israel? That's an unacceptable solution. The Jews once again become a people without a homeland and Palestinians (likely with a understandable axe to grind) become the majority, placing the Israeli Jews in potential peril.

End the occupation? I'd love to get behind that, though it needs to be a little better thought out than just getting Israel out. There's no effective infrastructure and no economy. If Israel pulled out completely today, Palestine would be a failed state.

I say don't free Palestine, make a temporary two-state confederation that lasts for ten-twenty years to build up the Palestinian state so that it can stand separate from Israel. Then free Palestine.

Palestine should stop denying offers for peace and a two-state solution if it wants peace and a two-state solution so badly. El-Amin obviously has no grasp of the history of the region based on his moronic assertion that the Palestinian invaders are somehow the native population.

Arabs have been the historic residents of the Levant prior to the 20th century since the Arab invasions from over a millennium ago. It was arguably Arab land prior to the 1948 war, but during what was a mutual ethnic blood bath they varyingly were driven out or left in fear of being driven out. And while that is sad and unfortunate, they would have done the same to the Jews of they could.

Long story short, there are no angels in this.

[Souseiseki]

Zionism is awesome, it is the people who're against Israel which are severely in error. They have no idea as to the repercussions of Israel ceasing to exist in the middle east. If the Palestinians are allowed to have their way, it would devolve into a Muslim fundamentalist state which will export Jihad being that they'll be run by Hamas. It is better for Israel, the only modern and developed bastion of civilization in the region to hold onto their nation and never surrender. Not one step back. Israel shall never ever be Arab just as the Kurile Islands will never be Japanese. They've lost what they had for good.

Well said.

all the peace deals have been garbage and netanhayu has repeatedly stated he will never accept a two-state solution :-)

Oh well you've asserted that the peace deals were garbage without providing a source or even elaborating on why receiving all of Gaza, half of Jerusalem and most of the west bank (except for settlements) and a proportionate return of land from elsewhere in Israel was garbage, clearly I've lost this debate.

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=229958&p=18051593#p18051593

this is camp david. please show me the peace deal you think was shatteringly awesome but was rejected by palestine. was it the ones that israel's current PM bragged about derailing?

even your post illuminates the problems. half of jerusalem? purely symbolic control. except settlements? oh cool, so they want to keep the stuff they've illegal built. great. proportionate return of land? because 9% for 1% is "proportional", right?

[Sanctissima]

לק”י
G-d preserves us. I shall answer that with another question. What defines a Jew? Historically, what makes Jews, Jews? Where do our customs root from? Where do our holidays root from?

I'm not saying it's not important. I want to know how it saved us from the rest of the world.

Well, to be fair, if there wasn't a Torah, then it's unlikely the Jewish religion would have survived into the modern era. Hence, the Hebrews would probably have suffered the same fate as those who came before them. Gradual cultural assimilation.

[Sanctissima]

Well said.

Oh well you've asserted that the peace deals were garbage without providing a source or even elaborating on why receiving all of Gaza, half of Jerusalem and most of the west bank (except for settlements) and a proportionate return of land from elsewhere in Israel was garbage, clearly I've lost this debate.

http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic ... #p18051593

this is camp david. please show me the peace deal you think was shatteringly awesome but was rejected by palestine. was it the ones that israel's current PM bragged about derailing?

even your post illuminates the problems. half of jerusalem? purely symbolic control. except settlements? oh cool, so they want to keep the stuff they've illegal built. great. proportionate return of land? because 9% for 1% is "proportional", right?

Well, to be fair, Israel has long had the ability to just annex the entirety of Palestine and tell the rest of the world to go fuck itself.

Israel does jerk Palestine around, a lot. But the only reason there even is a Palestine is because Israel allows there to be one. They've had plenty of opportunities to just take the whole and keep it as their own in the past, but they haven't.

[Yaramaqui]

לק”י
G-d preserves us. I shall answer that with another question. What defines a Jew? Historically, what makes Jews, Jews? Where do our customs root from? Where do our holidays root from?

I'm not saying it's not important. I want to know how it saved us from the rest of the world.

לק”י

You asked how were the Jewish people preserved to this day. I gave you your answer, Torah observance. G-d promised us as the Jewish people to be a eternal nation. There were pogroms, genocides, and much more, but that did not change any thing. We are still alive and well. That is the sole reason why we still exist. For the past 2,000 years, the Jewish people have rarely had an army. We never needed one. I again repeat, even if Jews abandoned the Torah, and many of us were killed, and various varieties of proselytes, It was the belief of HaQadosh Barukh Hu and observing his Torah, which has kept us as a distinct identity.

[Souseiseki]

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=229958&p=18051593#p18051593

this is camp david. please show me the peace deal you think was shatteringly awesome but was rejected by palestine. was it the ones that israel's current PM bragged about derailing?

even your post illuminates the problems. half of jerusalem? purely symbolic control. except settlements? oh cool, so they want to keep the stuff they've illegal built. great. proportionate return of land? because 9% for 1% is "proportional", right?

Well, to be fair, Israel has long had the ability to just annex the entirety of Palestine and tell the rest of the world to go fuck itself.

Israel does jerk Palestine around, a lot. But the only reason there even is a Palestine is because Israel allows there to be one. They've had plenty of opportunities to just take the whole and keep it as their own in the past, but they haven't.

you do not get brownie points for not being a massive dick and doing something even more massively illegal than what you are already doing

[Crockerland]

Well said.

Oh well you've asserted that the peace deals were garbage without providing a source or even elaborating on why receiving all of Gaza, half of Jerusalem and most of the west bank (except for settlements) and a proportionate return of land from elsewhere in Israel was garbage, clearly I've lost this debate.

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=229958&p=18051593#p18051593

this is camp david. please show me the peace deal you think was shatteringly awesome but was rejected by palestine. was it the ones that israel's current PM bragged about derailing?

Oh, well sorry then, my bad, you linked me to your own nationstates post so your fraudulent claims are clearly true, my fault completely.

even your post illuminates the problems. half of jerusalem? purely symbolic control.

It must be true, you asserted it, after all.

except settlements? oh cool, so they want to keep the stuff they've illegal built.

Building on your own land will never be illegal

great. proportionate return of land? because 9% for 1% is "proportional", right?

6.3% for 5.8%, but even at your liar numbers losing 8% of your land is not grounds for rejecting peace.

[Saiwania]

Israel really ought to annex all of Palestine if it really would settle the conflict once and for all. The Germans lost Konigsberg to Russia, the Arabs shouldn't think that they can't lose Gaza and the West Bank to Israel if they don't stop provoking the Jewish state.

[Souseiseki]

Oh, well sorry then, my bad, you linked me to your own nationstates post so your fraudulent claims are clearly true, my fault completely.

that is just a summary of the accords. that you are so ignorant of the facts that you legitimately cannot recolonize the key points of one of the largest events of the conflict and think they are fraudulent does nothing but put serious doubt on whether there is anything in your own post that is actually based on fact.

It must be true, you asserted it, after all.

camp david accords. i will wait while you look it up.

Building on your own land will never be illegal

literally no other country but israel recognized the land as israels, or are we doing the "germany invaded poland so yeah it's theirs now" thing? or perhaps is this another fundamental issue on the conflict you're going to embarrass yourself with with your lack of basic research? (this is uncomfortably close to attacking the poster, but when the problem is the posters simultaneous combination of arrogance and ignorance it's hard to avoid addressing that issue)

6.3% for 5.8%, but even at your liar numbers losing 8% of your land is not grounds for rejecting peace.

thank you for your numbers from a completely different deal than the one i was referencing. i have repeatedly stated exactly which i was referring to as to avoid this exact scenario, but as has become a consistent theme throughout this post there appears to be an element of information asymmetry.

fake edit: a cursory look at your link seems to suggest that a man who was on his way out of office did not accept a plan that was not previously and extensively discussed. that seems like... a reasonable stance to take?

[Menassa]

I'm generally confused at what 'The Jewish Situation' is.

[Crockerland]

that is just a summary of the accords.

You cannot source an unsourced assertion with another unsourced assertion

and think they are fraudulent does nothing but put serious doubt on whether there is anything in your own post that is actually based on fact.

Yeah, I mean, after all, I didn't accept your unsources assertions as fact, even after you backed them up with another unsourced assertion made by yourself on the same forums.

camp david accords. i will wait while you look it up.

The camp David accords from 1978 when the Israelis and Egyptians made peace, I am familiar with it. I fail to see what that has to do with the offers for peace in either 2008 or 2000. Maybe you just keep bungling "2000 Camp David Summit"?

literally no other country but israel recognized the land as israels,

Except for America, Canada, Armenia, Cyprus, Tuvalu, almost all of western Europe (except Swedistan, Iceland, and France), Micronesia, the Marshall Islands, Palau, Nauru, Australia, South Korea, Taiwan, Japan, Eritrea, Cameroon, Macedonia... Yeah, literally no other country but Israel.

or are we doing the "germany invaded poland so yeah it's theirs now" thing?

or perhaps is this another fundamental issue on the conflict you're going to embarrass yourself with with your lack of basic research?

Unlike you, I have actually posted research sources beyond my own assertions.

(this is uncomfortably close to attacking the poster,

No?

but when the problem is the posters simultaneous combination of arrogance and ignorance it's hard to avoid addressing that issue)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

thank you for your numbers from a completely different deal than the one i was referencing

No, thank you for avoiding the point I made that even with your numbers, 8% is not an excuse to reject peace.

i have repeatedly stated exactly which i was referring to as to avoid this exact scenario,

I mean, you said "camp david accords", the meeting between Israel and Egypt, but...

but as has become a consistent theme throughout this post there appears to be an element of information asymmetry.

Right, I've supplied a source for my information while you assert the same lies with the only link attempt being one to your own post.

fake edit: a cursory look at your link seems to suggest that a man who was on his way out of office did not accept a plan that was not previously and extensively discussed. that seems like... a reasonable stance to take?

Not if it's anything as bad at the Palestinian (falsely) claim it to be.

[Lady Scylla]

As a Jew who has always lived in a relatively christian area of the U.S. (a.k.a. all of it), knowing how the U.S. has treated us in the past, and experiencing the overwhelming dislike of our Israeli favoritism among the populace, I've always felt relatively insecure in the U.S. So, nations from the states or otherwise, how do you guys feel about us, and what do you think of supporting Israel as a nation?

I don't have any qualms with the Jews. This isn't the 1940s, after-all. As far as Israel/Palestine: I'm ready for the two of them to get the fuck over it and find a way to live together and stop being twats towards each other.

[Menassa]

As a Jew who has always lived in a relatively christian area of the U.S. (a.k.a. all of it), knowing how the U.S. has treated us in the past, and experiencing the overwhelming dislike of our Israeli favoritism among the populace, I've always felt relatively insecure in the U.S. So, nations from the states or otherwise, how do you guys feel about us, and what do you think of supporting Israel as a nation?

I don't have any qualms with the Jews. This isn't the 1940s, after-all. As far as Israel/Palestine: I'm ready for the two of them to get the fuck over it and find a way to live together and stop being twats towards each other.

Did you have qualms with Jews in the 40s?

[Lady Scylla]

I don't have any qualms with the Jews. This isn't the 1940s, after-all. As far as Israel/Palestine: I'm ready for the two of them to get the fuck over it and find a way to live together and stop being twats towards each other.

Did you have qualms with Jews in the 40s?

I wasn't alive then. But no, I don't have qualms with groups of people.

[Souseiseki]

You cannot source an unsourced assertion with another unsourced assertion

you know what the source is. the fact that i cannot be arsed spoonfeeding you the rest is your own problem.

The camp David accords from 1978 when the Israelis and Egyptians made peace, I am familiar with it. I fail to see what that has to do with the offers for peace in either 2008 or 2000. Maybe you just keep bungling "2000 Camp David Summit"?

oh shit, you got me. me fucking up one word of the name surely compensates for your consistent inability to remember the actual details. since you appear to have finally actually looked it up can i assume that you have actually looked into it or do i need to take you through an annotated guide sourcing every point i have stated thus far? it would admittedly be a massive waste of my time but it would be massively entertaining to force you to backtrack on every single point one by one.

Except for America, Canada, Armenia, Cyprus, Tuvalu, almost all of western Europe (except Swedistan, Iceland, and France), Micronesia, the Marshall Islands, Palau, Nauru, Australia, South Korea, Taiwan, Japan, Eritrea, Cameroon, Macedonia... Yeah, literally no other country but Israel.

no. they do not. there is no country that recognizes the occupied territories as part of israel. didn't we literally just dedicate an entire post to the concept of not posting before you actually look things up? again, you talk on and on about how much research you have have done but your actions do not line up.

since i honestly cannot be arsed with you doing another "unsourced lies!" shtick, i will begin with the big players in the hopes you will realize that the implications are for the rest.

Thirty years ago, the State Department legal adviser issued an opinion in response to an inquiry from Congress: The establishment of Israeli settlements in occupied Palestinian territories "is inconsistent with international law." "The United States does not accept the legitimacy of continued settlements," said State Department spokesman Ian Kelly, echoing President Obama's speech this month in Cairo.

Canada does not recognize permanent Israeli control over territories occupied in 1967 (the Golan Heights, the West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip). The Fourth Geneva Convention applies in the occupied territories and establishes Israel's obligations as an occupying power, in particular with respect to the humane treatment of the inhabitants of the occupied territories. As referred to in UN Security Council Resolutions 446 and 465, Israeli settlements in the occupied territories are a violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention. The settlements also constitute a serious obstacle to achieving a comprehensive, just and lasting peace.

[David Cameron] added: "What this government has consistently done and gone on doing is saying yes, we are supporters of Israel, but we do not support illegal settlements, we do not support what is happening in East Jerusalem and it’s very important that this capital city is maintained in the way that it was in the past.”

“Recalling that settlements are illegal under international law, constitute an obstacle to peace and threaten to make a two-state solution impossible, the EU reiterates its strong opposition to Israel’s settlement policy and actions taken in this context, such as building the separation barrier beyond the 1967 line, demolitions and confiscation – including of EU-funded projects – evictions, forced transfers including of Bedouins, illegal outposts and restrictions of movement and access.

Der Spiegel noted that Germany had supported a European Union resolution condemning Israeli settlements as "illegal under international law" despite Netanyahu's "pleas" to German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier, also an SDP member.

Establishing settlements in occupied territory violates international law, the Spanish foreign ministry said in a statement.

Japan reaffirms that Israeli settlement activities in the West Bank, including in East Jerusalem, are against international law and should be immediately and fully frozen, and reiterates its call to Israel to completely freeze the settlement activities.

actually, you know what? king of research, you have failed to actually provide a source for your claim. please do so. show me three countries (excluding israel) whose governments have officially stated that the occupied territories are part of israel with actual sources. i eagerly await your reply.

meme image i can't be bothered quoting

does might make right? yes or no. it is a simple question and you cannot selectively exclude people from it. then again, that post was made under the assumption you knew the settlements were illegal and were using a might makes right argument. based on your most recent post it seems like you may just be completely ignorant of the basic facts of the situation (why does this theme keep repeating itself?) so i will admit this may be a moot point/misunderstanding.

Right, I've supplied a source for my information while you assert the same lies with the only link attempt being one to your own post.

like i said, it was a summary not an actual source. once you have been explicitly told what the source is you cannot claim there is no source.

No, thank you for avoiding the point I made that even with your numbers, 8% is not an excuse to reject peace.

and what about everything else?

[Jochistan]

Jews are a'ight.
I really don't like Isreal. But Zionists have understandable reasons to support Isreal. Even if I really don't agree with them at all.

And I think it's a pity that certain arguements such as "Ashkenazi are Khazars" is used in a negative light. When that can be used to bring Jews and Ural Altaic Muslim cultures together against the Wahhabis. And other threats.

(Funny how Jobbik uses that arguement, then calls themselves Turan.)

[Yaramaqui]

Jews are a'ight.
I really don't like Isreal. But Zionists have understandable reasons to support Isreal. Even if I really don't agree with them at all.
"Ashkenazi are Khazars"

I am surprised by the fact such arguments are still made by people despite the many population genetic studies on the Jewish people have long disproved that.

[Crockerland]

you know what the source is. the fact that i cannot be arsed spoonfeeding you the entire text is your own problem.

Your unsourced post on The Mod-Sanctioned Israel/Palestine thread, yeah.

oh shit, you got me. me fucking up one word of the name surely compensates for your consistent inability to remember the actual details. since you appear to have finally actually looked it up can i assume that you have actually looked into it or do i need to take you through an annotated guide sourcing every point i have stated thus far? it would admittedly be a massive waste of my time but it would be massively entertaining to force you to backtrack on every single point one by one.

no. they do not. there is no country that recognizes the occupied territories as part of israel. didn't we literally just dedicate an entire post to the concept of not posting before you actually look things up?[/quote]Except for America, Canada, Armenia, Cyprus, Tuvalu, almost all of western Europe (except Swedistan, Iceland, and France), Micronesia, the Marshall Islands, Palau, Nauru, Australia, South Korea, Taiwan, Japan, Eritrea, Cameroon, Macedonia...[/quote]

again, you talk on and on about how much research you have have done but your actions do not line up.

I mean, they conflict with your posts, which were sourced with none other than your own post, they're definitely wrong.

since i honestly cannot be arsed with you doing another "unsourced lies!" shtick, i will begin with the big players in the hopes you will realize that the implications are for the rest.

Thirty years ago, the State Department legal adviser issued an opinion in response to an inquiry from Congress: The establishment of Israeli settlements in occupied Palestinian territories "is inconsistent with international law." "The United States does not accept the legitimacy of continued settlements," said State Department spokesman Ian Kelly, echoing President Obama's speech this month in Cairo.

You know who Ian Kelly is? He's not a lawyer of international law, he was a language teacher who used to teach Russian for a living until he started representing the US to various troubled states http://georgia.usembassy.gov/news-events/dc2015t/ian_kelly.html

Canada does not recognize permanent Israeli control over territories occupied in 1967 (the Golan Heights, the West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip). The Fourth Geneva Convention applies in the occupied territories and establishes Israel's obligations as an occupying power, in particular with respect to the humane treatment of the inhabitants of the occupied territories. As referred to in UN Security Council Resolutions 446 and 465, Israeli settlements in the occupied territories are a violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention. The settlements also constitute a serious obstacle to achieving a comprehensive, just and lasting peace.

Congratulations on finally listing a reliable, accurate source. a for you, my friend.

“Recalling that settlements are illegal under international law, constitute an obstacle to peace and threaten to make a two-state solution impossible, the EU reiterates its strong opposition to Israel’s settlement policy and actions taken in this context, such as building the separation barrier beyond the 1967 line, demolitions and confiscation – including of EU-funded projects – evictions, forced transfers including of Bedouins, illegal outposts and restrictions of movement and access.[/quote] I didn't say the EU, did I? Just like the UN recognizes Palestine as an observer, but Myanmar, a member of the UN, does not.

actually, you know what? king of research, you have failed to actually provide a source for your claim. please do so. show me three countries (excluding israel) whose governments have officially stated that the occupied territories are part of israel with actual sources. i eagerly await your reply.

Can you list three sources that state countries recognize Vermont as part of the US?

does might make right? yes or no. it is a simple question and you cannot selectively exclude people from it. then again, that post was made under the assumption you knew the settlements were illegal and were using a might makes right argument.

The settlements are not illegal, you are objectively wrong to claim they are, the state of Palestine was not declared until 1988; (source) so if anything the Palestinian occupation of Judea and Samaria is illegal

based on your most recent post it seems like you may just be completely ignorant of the basic facts of the situation (why does this theme keep repeating itself?) so i will admit this may be a moot point/misunderstanding.

Purposely kept vague so you can switch your story around to match the facts?

like i said, it was a summary not an actual source. once you have been explicitly told what the source is you cannot claim there is no source.[/url]
Well until this post your only source was your post on the mod-sanctioned Israel/Palestine thread.

and what about everything else?

Still avoiding the point I made, since it triumphs absolutely. Having to give up 8% of your claims is not an excuse to stop peace, especially when Judea and Samaria + Gaza comprises more than 20% of Israel's claims, but they were willing to give it up in pursuit of peace.

[Internationalist Bastard]

Well, I think I've never met a Jew in the States who was truly uncomfortable with being Jewish in this country. If you're truly worried about persecution, I recommend getting active in the local community.
On Isreal, I will condemn it till the end of days

[Virtannis]

Jews are cool
Zionism sucks
Having a nation set up on theocratic grounds was wrong and Israel needs to stop being oppressive dicks and stop building on Palestinian homelands
whoevers in charge of Palestine now needs to get over the religious division and actually help the Palestinian people

Since when are we theocratic?? I'm an atheist, so if we were I'd be in trouble.
Is Israel perfect in that aspect? Far from it, I'd personally like complete separation of religion and the state but it's not theocratic and technically speaking doesn't even have an official religion.

It is a Jewish nation more in the national symbols (flag, anthem) and the fact that the history of the Jews is taught in schools and such but it's not Jewish in the way that institutionally harms a minority (Though I'll admit there are a lot of racists, but it's not the state but rather a portion of the population, and still not a majority).

I'm just clarifying that because it seems you are not aware of it- "Jewish" is not only a religion but also an ethnicity.

By the way that's interesting how you say "it was a mistake to set it up" as if the entire Israeli population here suddenly appeared the moment the state was created, but people lived there and there were pogroms and generally a hostile attitude on behalf of a sizable portion of the Palestinian Arab public against the Palestinian Jews, and as you can see in the contemporary middle east when there are many different groups within the same country (Because after all, unlike the European borders which formed quite naturally over centuries, the Middle Eastern borders were drawn without any consideration to the population) it might cause big wars, In the Syrian Civil War alone there are many times the amount of casualties of the entire 60+ years old conflict, and the Iraqi Civil War only starting in 2014 arguably already has more casualties as well, so if Israel was not established at all it might have been worse here, think about it- what's the worth of a nation state? Theoretically there is no real justification for any nation state apart from the fact that nation states are more stable because of a limited population with shared culture and history and therefore might have a general agreement over what should be done (Even if there is a lot of conflict between left and right, aside from the extremists there is generally indeed an agreement on arbitrary things).

So honestly the only reasonable solution is a 2 state solution- where there are 2 states each catering for the will, and according to the will of it's population.