The Jewish Situation

[Crockerland]

You mean state that something you said is a common theme used by the regressive left islamic apologists?

Was this a failed reference to something or just a bizarre insult at nothing in particular?

So... Flamebaiting?

Another Islamophobe. Joy.

Oh noes, not an Islamophobe D:

I would much rather be an Islamophobe than accept such a Christianophobic, Judeophobic, Homophobic, and evil work as the Quran as being acceptable and/or defend it's followers. And I'd much rather be an Islamophobe than be an Allodoxaphobe that calls anyone who criticizes Islam an Islamophobe.

[Souseiseki]

israel will ban you if you come through certain countries as well, but what does that have to do with religious freedom?

What countries? It does not.

http://www.motoringbox.com/cars/enterta ... pisode-02/

Once inside, they discover that Top Gear is enormously popular in Syria – which is not great because Israel will not allow them into the country if the authorities know they have been in Syria.

don't like to use this as a source but this was back in 2010. israel is perfectly happily to ban travel from certain countries when it feels like it.

[The Olog-Hai]

What countries? It does not.

http://www.motoringbox.com/cars/enterta ... pisode-02/

Once inside, they discover that Top Gear is enormously popular in Syria – which is not great because Israel will not allow them into the country if the authorities know they have been in Syria.

don't like to use this as a source but this was back in 2010. israel is perfectly happily to ban travel from certain countries when it feels like it.

It does that for the matter of security.
Tell me, has Israel even had an event like 9/11?
The main way terrorists get in is by illegal border crossing and what not.

[Menassa]

What countries? It does not.

http://www.motoringbox.com/cars/enterta ... pisode-02/

Once inside, they discover that Top Gear is enormously popular in Syria – which is not great because Israel will not allow them into the country if the authorities know they have been in Syria.

don't like to use this as a source but this was back in 2010. israel is perfectly happily to ban travel from certain countries when it feels like it.

Yeah that seems more like a security issue, than anything else.

[Souseiseki]

a ban is a ban

also still not sure what it has to do with religious freedom

[Menassa]

a ban is a ban

No it isn't, one has to do with national security and the other is simply a ban because they do not like the country.

also still not sure what it has to do with religious freedom

It doesn't.

[Vistulange]

Honestly, I'll never get the idea of it all.

personally i think we're just waiting for someone that fucks up and doesn't realize there's a very specific reason he picked those peoples specifically

Apart from them being minorities in some empire or state at some point in time, including today, there wasn't a very specific reason I chose them. Mostly, people who came from the top of my head. I didn't even think to include Catalans, Basques, Picards, Sorbians, so on and so forth...

[Jochistan]

Oh, no no no no. You don't get to accuse me of slanderous lies when you baselessly accuse me of being a regressive leftist

You mean state that something you said is a common theme used by the regressive left islamic apologists?

It's not a common theme. You have no idea what you're talking about.
Saying that Salafi Wahhabism is a growing, massive threat is not something they would say. They would call it a tiny minority having nothing to do with Islam.

Another Islamophobe. Joy.

Oh noes, not an Islamophobe D:

I would much rather be an Islamophobe than accept such a Christianophobic, Judeophobic, Homophobic, and evil work as the Quran as being acceptable and/or defend it's followers. And I'd much rather be an Islamophobe than be an Allodoxaphobe that calls anyone who criticizes Islam an Islamophobe.

Well you call anyone who defends it a regressive leftist. So...it's pretty fair, I would say.

[Jochistan]

So, basically, there has been no rational answer as to why Jews need a state for themselves more than Ukrainians, Kurds, Belarusians, Scots, Zazas, Azerbaijanis, Bretons and Occitans do. Typical.

They went through a genocide. A Jewish state would be nice somewhere. Just not in Palestine resulting in displacement and violence.

[Vistulange]

So, basically, there has been no rational answer as to why Jews need a state for themselves more than Ukrainians, Kurds, Belarusians, Scots, Zazas, Azerbaijanis, Bretons and Occitans do. Typical.

They went through a genocide. A Jewish state would be nice somewhere. Just not in Palestine resulting in displacement and violence.

Oh, so we're rewarding everybody who went through a genocide a state of their own now? Why didn't we give the Hutus and the Tutsis their own states, then, back in 1990?

I call bullshit.

Also, Crockerland, you are a biased, bigoted, right-wing ideologue and demagogue who sees left-wingers wherever you look that isn't a mirror. I read two "factbooks" you have in your signature and I completely understand that you are simply - forgive me for the crude wording - masturbating to your own bullshit. You are biased, you are subjective and you are emotional and quite, quite detached from the real world. The fact that you've actually called Jochistan a "regressive leftist" and a "SJW" should be proof enough. To be frank, anybody who is called "regressive leftist" or a "SJW" by you should hold it up as a badge of honour - they're saying something right, because everything you say reeks of illogical bias and a lack of objectivity.

Abdullah Öcalan, reason for being a good guy? "Hates Turkey". Wow, that is...so...enlightening. You don't know anything about Turkey, you don't know anything about the history of Turkey - hell, you don't know anything about Kurds, Kurdish history, Kurdish tradition, Kurdish society or Kurdish politics. The only reason you hate Turkey is...why? Boo hoo, we're occupying Northern Cyprus. Russia annexed the Crimea, Armenia holds control over Nagorno-Karabakh and if you asked Argentina, the United Kingdom is occupying the Falkland Islands. Get the fuck over it. You aren't being special for screaming "TURKEY INVADED CYPRUS". Yes, we did, and we had all the right in the world to do so. The occupation is disputed, not the invasion.

So, basically, you're not a racist, no, because you have examples of "good" Lebanese and Arab people; but you are a bigot who doesn't even really care about the background of the people he hates so much for no discernible reason, and to top that off, sees "leftists" everywhere, since your views are so bigoted and empty that they can't possibly be shared by anybody who actually thinks about what they are about to say or write.

Geez.

[The disunited states]

Crockerland. If you so hate human rights violations, wtf is Myanmar Rhodesia and Republika Srpska doing in your like list?

[Crockerland]

You mean state that something you said is a common theme used by the regressive left islamic apologists?

It's not a common theme. You have no idea what you're talking about.
Saying that Salafi Wahhabism is a growing, massive threat is not something they would say. They would call it a tiny minority having nothing to do with Islam.
Well you call anyone who defends it a regressive leftist. So...it's pretty fair, I would say.

Damn Jochistan, quit trowing a fucking tantrum, I already explained several times that I wasn't calling you a regressive leftist.

Oh, so we're rewarding everybody who went through a genocide a state of their own now? Why didn't we give the Hutus and the Tutsis their own states, then, back in 1990?

I call bullshit.

Also, Crockerland, you are a biased, bigoted, right-wing ideologue

Biased, centrist ideologue. As far as bigotry goes (I'm assuming you mean the actual dictionary definition of being intolerant of any differing opinion) I have no problem with people of different religious faiths (or lack thereof) unless their religion calls for my death, I just follow bill maher's advice and never tolerate intolerance.

and demagogue

I mostly use logic and Quran verses to prove myself, rather than appeal to emotion as a demagogue would.

who sees left-wingers wherever you look that isn't a mirror.

I am a fan of classic liberalism.

I read two "factbooks" you have in your signature

I think you just wanted to make a joke about them containing no facts, but they're called dispatches.

and I completely understand that you are simply - forgive me for the crude wording - masturbating to your own bullshit.

My dispatches containing my explanations of my views are going to be somewhat subjective? I would never have guessed.

You are biased, you are subjective

I can definitely accuse you of bias since you're a muslim defending Islam and a Turk defending the Armenian/Greek/Assyrian/Dersim genocide state.

and you are emotional and quite, quite detached from the real world. The fact that you've actually called Jochistan a "regressive leftist" and a "SJW" should be proof enough.

I never called him either, I once said that something he said about Wahhabis was a common theme among regressive leftists, I don't know what he's crying about.

To be frank, anybody who is called "regressive leftist" or a "SJW" by you should hold it up as a badge of honour - they're saying something right, because everything you say reeks of illogical bias and a lack of objectivity.

The holocaust was bad.

Abdullah Öcalan, reason for being a good guy? "Hates Turkey". Wow, that is...so...enlightening. You don't know anything about Turkey, you don't know anything about the history of Turkey - hell, you don't know anything about Kurds, Kurdish history, Kurdish tradition, Kurdish society or Kurdish politics. The only reason you hate Turkey is...why? Boo hoo, we're occupying Northern Cyprus.

Oh yeah and they fucking exterminated half of the Armenian race and to this day deny and refuse to admit or pay reparations for it.

Russia annexed the Crimea,

Okay? Two wrongs don't make a right.

Armenia holds control over Nagorno-Karabakh

Good, I'm glad.

and if you asked Argentina, the United Kingdom is occupying the Falkland Islands.

I wouldn't ask Argentina.

Get the fuck over it. You aren't being special for screaming "TURKEY INVADED CYPRUS". Yes, we did, and we had all the right in the world to do so. The occupation is disputed, not the invasion.

What an oddly specific crime to pluck out of Turkey's long, long list of crimes against the Greeks, Armenians, Kurds, Assyrians, and humanity at large.

So, basically, you're not a racist, no, because you have examples of "good" Lebanese and Arab people;

Yeah, and that dispatch works like mosquito spray, people don't even bother to drag out the unkillable zombie strawman of "not all" any more.

but you are a bigot who doesn't even really care about the background of the people he hates so much for no discernible reason, and to top that off, sees "leftists" everywhere, since your views are so bigoted and empty that they can't possibly be shared by anybody who actually thinks about what they are about to say or write.

Geez.

Geez indeed. You obviously don't know anything about me, haven't known me for any span of time, have never talked to me before, and checked out two dispatches from my signature plus what Jochistan said and made a series of assumptions to determine what an ebul boogieman I am.

In fact, all your information seems to come from Jochistan's posts about me, my "for those who accuse me of hating muslims" dispatch, and from whatever dispatch you pulled my hatred for the illegal invasion and occupation of Cyprus, which you stitched together to make me out to fear leftists and have some bizarre hatred towards Turkey because of it's occupation of Cyprus alone.

I hate Turkey due to it's long list of crimes against humanity, war crimes, human rights violations and state-sponsored terror against an equally long list of people, mostly Kurds, Cypriots, Greeks, Armenians, Assyrians, and it's own people. And in case you're going to pull out some false equivalence about the Germans doing the same thing to the Gypsies, Jews, and Disabled, they have long since payed reparations for their crimes and admitted their fault.

[Souseiseki]

sorry crockerland *grabs mic* gonna let you have it back in a moment but i just gotta say the leader of the cypriot junta at the time has explicitly stated he would have killed every turk there given the chance and fully intended to join up with greek military junta so turkey's initial invasion was entirely justified

[Vistulange]

I can definitely accuse you of bias since you're a muslim defending Islam and a Turk defending the Armenian/Greek/Assyrian/Dersim genocide state.

This practically invalidates everything you have ever said or will say.

A lot of Muslims wouldn't consider me a Muslim - hell, I even have trouble defining what I am in regards to religion. I do know that I do not accept Muhammad as a Prophet, so...I suppose that's Islam out the window. So please, when you don't even know anything about the guy you're trying to accuse of bias, at least do it correctly. I'm a guy who smiles at the idea of obliterating all religion in Turkey through a long process of non-religious education and the brutal repression of political Islam, how Muslim does that sound to you, really? Again, kindly try to learn the guy who you're accusing of bias.

And, again, Turkey committed no crimes. The Armenian issue was a wartime measure to deport Armenians since they were working against the Ottoman Empire. We were at war with the Greeks during the Torching of Izmir, I have no knowledge of whatever happened with the Assyrians and the Dersim issue was a rebellion and it was crushed, just like every other rebellion. During the time period all of the things you say happened, there was no proper international organisation and no laws except for the Geneva Conventions. Westphalian sovereignty was completely there and what we did was legal according to our laws, and most of the time, international law isn't retroactive, otherwise, we would have to put almost every state on to trial.

Try again.

[Jochistan]

I can definitely accuse you of bias since you're a muslim defending Islam and a Turk defending the Armenian/Greek/Assyrian/Dersim genocide state.

This practically invalidates everything you have ever said or will say.

A lot of Muslims wouldn't consider me a Muslim - hell, I even have trouble defining what I am in regards to religion. I do know that I do not accept Muhammad as a Prophet, so...I suppose that's Islam out the window. So please, when you don't even know anything about the guy you're trying to accuse of bias, at least do it correctly. I'm a guy who smiles at the idea of obliterating all religion in Turkey through a long process of non-religious education and the brutal repression of political Islam, how Muslim does that sound to you, really? Again, kindly try to learn the guy who you're accusing of bias.

And, again, Turkey committed no crimes. The Armenian issue was a wartime measure to deport Armenians since they were working against the Ottoman Empire. We were at war with the Greeks during the Torching of Izmir, I have no knowledge of whatever happened with the Assyrians and the Dersim issue was a rebellion and it was crushed, just like every other rebellion. During the time period all of the things you say happened, there was no proper international organisation and no laws except for the Geneva Conventions. Westphalian sovereignty was completely there and what we did was legal according to our laws, and most of the time, international law isn't retroactive, otherwise, we would have to put almost every state on to trial.

Try again.

This is the guy that accuses borderline Third Position Traditionalists of being regressive leftists.

You really expect him to be reasonable?

[Jochistan]

sorry crockerland *grabs mic* gonna let you have it back in a moment but i just gotta say the leader of the cypriot junta at the time has explicitly stated he would have killed every turk there given the chance and fully intended to join up with greek military junta so turkey's initial invasion was entirely justified

By his standard what he said was probably justified because they were Turks living outside their own country of Central Asia.

[Kriga]

I can definitely accuse you of bias since you're a muslim defending Islam and a Turk defending the Armenian/Greek/Assyrian/Dersim genocide state.

This practically invalidates everything you have ever said or will say.

A lot of Muslims wouldn't consider me a Muslim - hell, I even have trouble defining what I am in regards to religion. I do know that I do not accept Muhammad as a Prophet, so...I suppose that's Islam out the window. So please, when you don't even know anything about the guy you're trying to accuse of bias, at least do it correctly. I'm a guy who smiles at the idea of obliterating all religion in Turkey through a long process of non-religious education and the brutal repression of political Islam, how Muslim does that sound to you, really? Again, kindly try to learn the guy who you're accusing of bias.

And, again, Turkey committed no crimes. The Armenian issue was a wartime measure to deport Armenians since they were working against the Ottoman Empire. We were at war with the Greeks during the Torching of Izmir, I have no knowledge of whatever happened with the Assyrians and the Dersim issue was a rebellion and it was crushed, just like every other rebellion. During the time period all of the things you say happened, there was no proper international organisation and no laws except for the Geneva Conventions. Westphalian sovereignty was completely there and what we did was legal according to our laws, and most of the time, international law isn't retroactive, otherwise, we would have to put almost every state on to trial.

Try again.

Sorry to butt in, but the Armenien genocide did happen. There is proof and a record of deaths. It happened whehter you like it or not and was a dark period in Turkish history. Regardless of whether there was no Human Rights Convention, what the Ottoman Empire did to the Assyrians and Armeniens was, and still is genocide.

[Jochistan]

Geez indeed. You obviously don't know anything about me, haven't known me for any span of time, have never talked to me before, and checked out two dispatches from my signature plus what Jochistan said and made a series of assumptions to determine what an ebul boogieman I am.

In fact, all your information seems to come from Jochistan's posts about me, my "for those who accuse me of hating muslims" dispatch, and from whatever dispatch you pulled my hatred for the illegal invasion and occupation of Cyprus, which you stitched together to make me out to fear leftists and have some bizarre hatred towards Turkey because of it's occupation of Cyprus alone.

"All your slanderous information seems to come from people I've been cancerous towards and my own writing. Check your facts next time! "

Holy God, my sides!

[Crockerland]

I can definitely accuse you of bias since you're a muslim defending Islam and a Turk defending the Armenian/Greek/Assyrian/Dersim genocide state.

This practically invalidates everything you have ever said or will say.

Not really.

A lot of Muslims wouldn't consider me a Muslim

Yeah, the Quran's pretty clear that anyone who doesn't fight against the infidels is a hypocrite (Quran 3:167) and that they're hellbound (Quran 66:9)

hell, I even have trouble defining what I am in regards to religion. I do know that I do not accept Muhammad as a Prophet, so...I suppose that's Islam out the window.

Yeah, okay. I assumed based on your signature that you were Muslim, which was a dumb move; That doesn't cripple my argument nor even the quote you've selected, since you're still a Turk.

So please, when you don't even know anything about the guy you're trying to accuse of bias, at least do it correctly.

You could stand to take your own advice.

I'm a guy who smiles at the idea of obliterating all religion in Turkey through a long process of non-religious education and the brutal repression of political Islam, how Muslim does that sound to you, really?

Not very. "The Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.'" (Bukhari 83:37)
Quran 4:89 - "They wish that you should disbelieve as they disbelieve, and then you would be equal; therefore take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of God; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper."

Again, kindly try to learn the guy who you're accusing of bias.

Blatant hypocrisy.

And, again, Turkey committed no crimes.

What the fuck?
Turkish terrorist state and it's crimes against humanity
Turkey - a criminal state
Accountability for Turkish war crimes against Kurds

The Armenian issue was a wartime measure to deport Armenians since they were working against the Ottoman Empire.

You could have gone without eradicating them.

We were at war with the Greeks during the Torching of Izmir, I have no knowledge of whatever happened with the Assyrians

Your country killed three hundred thousand people for their race.

and the Dersim issue was a rebellion and it was crushed, just like every other rebellion. During the time period all of the things you say happened, there was no proper international organisation and no laws except for the Geneva Conventions. Westphalian sovereignty was completely there and what we did was legal according to our laws, and most of the time, international law isn't retroactive, otherwise, we would have to put almost every state on to trial.

Try again.

I don't need to, you just dismissed everything I said and then claimed that it was legal to exterminate millions of people. My argument still stands unopposed.

This practically invalidates everything you have ever said or will say.

A lot of Muslims wouldn't consider me a Muslim - hell, I even have trouble defining what I am in regards to religion. I do know that I do not accept Muhammad as a Prophet, so...I suppose that's Islam out the window. So please, when you don't even know anything about the guy you're trying to accuse of bias, at least do it correctly. I'm a guy who smiles at the idea of obliterating all religion in Turkey through a long process of non-religious education and the brutal repression of political Islam, how Muslim does that sound to you, really? Again, kindly try to learn the guy who you're accusing of bias.

And, again, Turkey committed no crimes. The Armenian issue was a wartime measure to deport Armenians since they were working against the Ottoman Empire. We were at war with the Greeks during the Torching of Izmir, I have no knowledge of whatever happened with the Assyrians and the Dersim issue was a rebellion and it was crushed, just like every other rebellion. During the time period all of the things you say happened, there was no proper international organisation and no laws except for the Geneva Conventions. Westphalian sovereignty was completely there and what we did was legal according to our laws, and most of the time, international law isn't retroactive, otherwise, we would have to put almost every state on to trial.

Try again.

This is the guy that accuses borderline Third Position Traditionalists of being regressive leftists.

You really expect him to be reasonable?

You won't have a problem posting a quote from me calling a third position traditionalist a regressive leftist then, at least I assume you won't since you've screamed bloody murder for the last few pages of multiple threads that I did so

[Jochistan]

It's not a common theme. You have no idea what you're talking about.
Saying that Salafi Wahhabism is a growing, massive threat is not something they would say. They would call it a tiny minority having nothing to do with Islam.
Well you call anyone who defends it a regressive leftist. So...it's pretty fair, I would say.

Damn Jochistan, quit trowing a fucking tantrum, I already explained several times that I wasn't calling you a regressive leftist.

Quit playing innocent. Tying my position to that of a regressive leftists is definately reason to act like you made the accusation which you did and continue to do.

And continue to do for anyone who even lifts a finger against your views on Islam.

If you don't want indignation, don't call people regressive leftists if they clearly don't have those views.

[Crockerland]

Damn Jochistan, quit trowing a fucking tantrum, I already explained several times that I wasn't calling you a regressive leftist.

Quit playing innocent. Tying my position to that of a regressive leftists is definately reason to act like you made the accusation which you did and continue to do.

And continue to do for anyone who even lifts a finger against your views on Islam.

If you don't want indignation, don't call people regressive leftists if they clearly don't have those views.

Ha! I knew it! I knew you couldn't provide a single quote to back up your lies! And I knew you'd still try to defend your fabricated claim even without the slightest shred of proof!

[Vistulange]

-snip-

Who cares, you are a Westerner who hates Turks.

Two can play at your game.

Your sources are biased and unreliable.

My point, Crock, is that you are a demagogue who spews bullshit.

[Kriga]

Damn Jochistan, quit trowing a fucking tantrum, I already explained several times that I wasn't calling you a regressive leftist.

Quit playing innocent. Tying my position to that of a regressive leftists is definately reason to act like you made the accusation which you did and continue to do.

And continue to do for anyone who even lifts a finger against your views on Islam.

If you don't want indignation, don't call people regressive leftists if they clearly don't have those views.

You aren't a reggressive leftist.

But one thing i know for sure is that you are definately socially and morally conservative, and seem to get quite emotional when Islam gets criticsed. Not a bad thing, but I am not surprised if someone would call you regressive for that.

Emotion in politics is a literal blight. It forsakes reason and logic, as well as facts. It is a natural human emotion, but when it comes to deciding how to look after a country, it must be quashed for pragmatism to take hold.

[Great Feng]

So, basically, there has been no rational answer as to why Jews need a state for themselves more than Ukrainians, Kurds, Belarusians, Scots, Zazas, Azerbaijanis, Bretons and Occitans do. Typical.

They went through a genocide. A Jewish state would be nice somewhere. Just not in Palestine resulting in displacement and violence.

Well according to the Jewish teachings and Torah, it can't happen until the Messiah comes.

[Kriga]

-snip-

Who cares, you are a Westerner who hates Turks.

Two can play at your game.

Your sources are biased and unreliable.

My point, Crock, is that you are a demagogue who spews bullshit.

It has been widely accepted the the genocides happened. I myself don't hate Turks, but genocides did happen. The Young Turks were brutal during their reign over the dying Ottoman Empire.