The Jewish Situation

[Kalmarium]

Jews are cool
Zionism sucks
Having a nation set up on theocratic grounds was wrong and Israel needs to stop being oppressive dicks and stop building on Palestinian homelands
whoevers in charge of Palestine now needs to get over the religious division and actually help the Palestinian people

As a Palestinian-American I agree.

Actually to tell you the truth I don't mind Israelis at all, I am just opposed to Zionism and the whole situation in the Holy Lands. Ideally I'd like a united, binational/bireligious "Abrahamic" state but that will never happen. :/

[The Huskar Social Union]

.... Nah, clearly you are a Jesuit.

I guess I already told you ^u^

No it was just really obvious from the threads ive seen you in : P

[The Two Jerseys]

Honestly, the only real tension I've seen with Jewish people in the US is in a couple places with large Orthodox populations, and it's mostly because the Orthodox Jews are the ones who want to turn the town into a Jewish ghetto.

Personally, I have no problem with Jewish people, the ones I know are all really nice.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

I'm not American or Jewish. (Roman catholic and Canadian)

I don't judge people by there religion.

As for Israel, I really don't have an opinion on that.

[Souseiseki]

I'm Muslim by the way.

Do you think that Jews still deserve their own state, but somewhere else maybe?

what determines whether a given ethnicity or religion "deserves" their own state?

[Zarbifel]

Let me ask you guys a question. Do you think Israel would be an independent political entity if the Jews hadn't immigrated from Europe after the war? I think "Palestine" would have been partitioned by its neighboring countries. The Israeli government may be wrong, but the jews still need to support it, as non-jewish governments have proven in the past they couldn't protect us. That was the reason Israel was created, and that's why it's still around today.

Jews do not need to support the state of Israel.

But despite all this, while they are in the land of their enemies, I will not despise them nor will I reject them to annihilate them, thereby breaking My covenant that is with them, for I am the Lord their God.

You do understand why it's necessary right?

[El-Amin Caliphate]

I'm Muslim by the way.

Do you think that Jews still deserve their own state, but somewhere else maybe?

The Jews can stay in Palestine, but they shouldn't be stealing Palestinian land, like America stole Native American land. Palestine must keep their land, but let the Jews stay. If Jews want Jewish law, cool, then we can have Sharia and Halakhah (I hope that's right). But if both want Democracy, then ok. But Palestine stays Palestine.

[Republic of the Cristo]

Jews are cool
Zionism sucks
Having a nation set up on theocratic grounds was wrong and Israel needs to stop being oppressive dicks and stop building on Palestinian homelands
whoevers in charge of Palestine now needs to get over the religious division and actually help the Palestinian people

... you realize that the entire history behind the Jewish people revolves around religion right? If an Israeli state were to be established, then religion would beyond any doubt what so ever play a part in it. The Israelis are being oppressive because to not would mean destruction for them. Their oppression revolves around moving some people around. Yeah that sucks, but at least they are not shooting or jailing people en mass. Israel is surrounded by enemies on literally every side. Enemies whom want to destroy them for the reason of being Jewish. And no, you cannot say that the Israelis had no claim to the land, because they had been living on it for arguably 3,000 thousand years. And in all reality, despite the outright resistance and stubbornness of the Palestinians, the Israelis have been quite liberal in their handling when compared to how neighboring regimes would handle the situation.

[Zarbifel]

Do you think that Jews still deserve their own state, but somewhere else maybe?

what determines whether a given ethnicity or religion "deserves" their own state?

A religion doesn't deserve a state. I would say the size and history of the people. 2500 years of oppression sounds qualifying enough to me.

[Zarbifel]

Jews are cool
Zionism sucks
Having a nation set up on theocratic grounds was wrong and Israel needs to stop being oppressive dicks and stop building on Palestinian homelands
whoevers in charge of Palestine now needs to get over the religious division and actually help the Palestinian people

... you realize that the entire history behind the Jewish people revolves around religion right? If an Israeli state were to be established, then religion would beyond any doubt what so ever play a part in it. The Israelis are being oppressive because to not would mean destruction for them. Their oppression revolves around moving some people around. Yeah that sucks, but at least they are not shooting or jailing people en mass. Israel is surrounded by enemies on literally every side. Enemies whom want to destroy them for the reason of being Jewish. And no, you cannot say that the Israelis had no claim to the land, because they had been living on it for arguably 3,000 thousand years. And in all reality, despite the outright resistance and stubbornness of the Palestinians, the Israelis have been quite liberal in their handling when compared to how neighboring regimes would handle the situation.

This man said it better then I ever could

[Republic of the Cristo]

what determines whether a given ethnicity or religion "deserves" their own state?

A religion doesn't deserve a state. I would say the size and history of the people. 2500 years of oppression sounds qualifying enough to me.

yep

[El-Amin Caliphate]

I'm Muslim by the way.

What?!

Didn't I tell you? Yeah, I'm Muslim.

[Yaramaqui]

what determines whether a given ethnicity or religion "deserves" their own state?

A religion doesn't deserve a state. I would say the size and history of the people. 2500 years of oppression sounds qualifying enough to me.

לק”י

Are you a secular Jew?

[Rejected Regents]

I'm curious now. Isn't there some teaching in Judaism that states there can't be a Jewish state until the Jewish messiah arrives? Is that why you oppose Israel?

Yes, it is written in the Tanakh that the Jews will return to the land of Israel under the future Messiah's leadership. Also for many political reasons and lots of stuff from Jewish law that expand upon the numerous implications in the Tanakh.

That's why Israel was originally not supposed to be a religious country, it just became that way after the Holocaust when massive numbers of Orthodox from central and eastern Europe immigrated.

[Souseiseki]

what determines whether a given ethnicity or religion "deserves" their own state?

A religion doesn't deserve a state. I would say the size and history of the people. 2500 years of oppression sounds qualifying enough to me.

how much oppression? what if they only ban your language? do you get a state then? do some groups get condemned to cultural death because they're just not big enough to deserve protection?

[Sanctissima]

On the subject of Judaism, I'm indifferent, as I am with most religions.

On the subject of Israel, they're a useful ally, but nothing more. The government is corrupt, Netanyahu is an ass, and the theocratic bend behind the State is pure nonsense. Still, the country is there, maintains mostly friendly relations with the West, and while it does some very questionable things in Palestine, it's not like Hamas is any better. My only major gripe is the significant lobbying force it has in the US and (to a lesser extent) Canada when it comes to Israeli issues. Really, Israel has no business pressing its desires on other governments, and the influence it excerpts on much of the Republican party is very uncanny.

[Republic of the Cristo]

What?!

Didn't I tell you? Yeah, I'm Muslim.

This may surprise you, but I am Christian

[Yaramaqui]

Jews do not need to support the state of Israel.

You do understand why it's necessary right?

It isn't necessary. Yes, the Holocaust happened, yes we have been persecuted for ages, but there was a promise that Haqadosh Barukh Hu will keep us alive. And if you believe in the Torah, you'd know that regardless of there being a state of Israel, we'd still be around.

[Zarbifel]

Do you think that Jews still deserve their own state, but somewhere else maybe?

The Jews can stay in Palestine, but they shouldn't be stealing Palestinian land, like America stole Native American land. Palestine must keep their land, but let the Jews stay. If Jews want Jewish law, cool, then we can have Sharia and Halakhah (I hope that's right). But if both want Democracy, then ok. But Palestine stays Palestine.

Jews are already twice the size of the Palestinian population anyways. The overwhelming minority doesn't get to control the nation dude. They should get an equal say, but it ceased to be Palestine in 1948.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

This forum is starting to become more Palestine or Israel than a Jewish situation. But then maybe that's what this forum was about?

[Zarbifel]

A religion doesn't deserve a state. I would say the size and history of the people. 2500 years of oppression sounds qualifying enough to me.

לק”י

Are you a secular Jew?

Yes I am.

[21 Tribes]

As a Jew who has always lived in a relatively christian area of the U.S. (a.k.a. all of it), knowing how the U.S. has treated us in the past, and experiencing the overwhelming dislike of our Israeli favoritism among the populace, I've always felt relatively insecure in the U.S. So, nations from the states or otherwise, how do you guys feel about us, and what do you think of supporting Israel as a nation?

I welcome you my fellow American regardless of your faith and I support Israel as a good ally.

[Yaramaqui]

Yes, it is written in the Tanakh that the Jews will return to the land of Israel under the future Messiah's leadership. Also for many political reasons and lots of stuff from Jewish law that expand upon the numerous implications in the Tanakh.

That's why Israel was originally not supposed to be a religious country, it just became that way after the Holocaust when massive numbers of Orthodox from central and eastern Europe immigrated.

Even if Israel is a religious country, we still aren't supposed to repopulate the Land during the divinely decreed exile. Whether Israel seems to be implementing religious laws or not, that doesn't make a difference.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

The Jews can stay in Palestine, but they shouldn't be stealing Palestinian land, like America stole Native American land. Palestine must keep their land, but let the Jews stay. If Jews want Jewish law, cool, then we can have Sharia and Halakhah (I hope that's right). But if both want Democracy, then ok. But Palestine stays Palestine.

Jews are already twice the size of the Palestinian population anyways. The overwhelming minority doesn't get to control the nation dude. They should get an equal say, but it ceased to be Palestine in 1948.

There only a minority because they've been killed. And Palestine still exists in the form of West Bank and Gaza and in their denonym.

[Republic of the Cristo]

A religion doesn't deserve a state. I would say the size and history of the people. 2500 years of oppression sounds qualifying enough to me.

how much oppression? what if they only ban your language? do you get a state then? do some groups get condemned to cultural death because they're just not big enough to deserve protection?

How much oppression? How about:

The inquisition
The crusades
Slavery
Being exiled by dozens of nations
Being placed as a bottom caste
More slavery
The holocaust
hundreds of pogroms
Even more slavery

Now make that happen non-stop for the next 3,500 years. I think they deserve a bit of slack by now