The Jewish Situation

[Traditionalism]

There's literally nothing wrong with that. Israel has a divine mandate to be in that land, and their Storm of Steel is perfectly justified.

Pharisees don't have any mandate for Israel, Israel is the Church.

Yep, cause God described a Church as the land of milk and honey.

[Crurnlark]

Israel seemed like a good idea at the time... but seriously, people far too easily take one side or the other on this issue, and let it shape their opinions on totally unrelated topics. Israel is a complicated situation and its supporters are equally complex, but too often they are reduced to 'vile Zionists', and some reject any argument out of hand just because of that.

[Valaran]

As a Jew who has always lived in a relatively christian area of the U.S. (a.k.a. all of it), knowing how the U.S. has treated us in the past, and experiencing the overwhelming dislike of our Israeli favoritism among the populace, I've always felt relatively insecure in the U.S. So, nations from the states or otherwise, how do you guys feel about us, and what do you think of supporting Israel as a nation?

I feel fairly secure where I am in the UK, and I've never felt insecure in the US, or indeed anywhere I've been for being so (including various nation in the Middle East), but then I rarely say out loud that I am Jewish. I get disconcerted by much of the political discussion of judaism and Israel in the UK, but nothing seriously worrying, so to speak.

I support Israel, but I strongly disagree with many of its policies.

[Spiffier]

Pharisees don't have any mandate for Israel, Israel is the Church.

Yep, cause God described a Church as the land of milk and honey.

The Kingdom of God is a land of milk and honey, yes.

[Napkiraly]

Milk and honey can give you a bad case of the shits, so it's really another sign that God is a bit of a prick.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

We don't really have many Jewish people in Australia (at least not where I live, anyway), so I've never really had a an opinion on Jews. It's just another religion to me, so I'm pretty indifferent. That said, I am aware of the history of anti-semitism in Europe, the US, the Middle East etc.

When it comes to Israel, I believe there is no ideal solution that's 100% fair and perfect for all parties, but I feel that a two-state solution is the most realistically fair and just option. Even though Israel was established on Palestinian land, you can't just uproot an entire naiton of people and dump them somewhere else (that's why we're in this mess in the first place). I think that the Israeli Government (and I want to be clear here, I'm talking about the government of Israel and its policies, not the Israeli people and certainly not Jewish people as a whole) needs to stop being so hostile to Palestinians - yes Hamas is attacking Israel, but we know for a fact that the Israeli government attacks civillian targets, and honestly there's nothing stopping them from taking the moral high ground and stopping and calling for a ceasefire and opening peace talks that could lead to a more permanent, peaceful and stable solution.

What makes you think Hamas will stop bombing Israel? Even if Israel does stop retaliating, Hamas doesn't care. They've made it abundantly clear that they will stop at nothing to destroy Israel. If they'd put as much effort into negotiations as they did into sneaking suicide bombers into Israeli cities then Israel might want to settle down. But at the moment, Israel is just trying to defend itself (and it's impossible for there not to be civilian casualties, there's only so much you can prevent when a terrorist organization that shoots missiles at your people sets up shop inside of an elementary school)

I don't think your defending yourself when Israel deprives Palestinians of their land, starves them by stealing farmland, taking down homes, etc.

[Vaticantopia]

What makes you think Hamas will stop bombing Israel? Even if Israel does stop retaliating, Hamas doesn't care. They've made it abundantly clear that they will stop at nothing to destroy Israel. If they'd put as much effort into negotiations as they did into sneaking suicide bombers into Israeli cities then Israel might want to settle down. But at the moment, Israel is just trying to defend itself (and it's impossible for there not to be civilian casualties, there's only so much you can prevent when a terrorist organization that shoots missiles at your people sets up shop inside of an elementary school)

I don't think your defending yourself when Israel deprives Palestinians of their land, starves them by stealing farmland, taking down homes, etc.

Because Palestinians really have nowhere else to go? Jews were there first anyway. Blame the Placaens (not sure if that's spelled right) and the Romans

[Revin]

I don't think your defending yourself when Israel deprives Palestinians of their land, starves them by stealing farmland, taking down homes, etc.

Because Palestinians really have nowhere else to go? Jews were there first anyway. Blame the Placaens (not sure if that's spelled right) and the Romans

Yep, Jews were there first.

[Internationalist Bastard]

I don't think your defending yourself when Israel deprives Palestinians of their land, starves them by stealing farmland, taking down homes, etc.

Because Palestinians really have nowhere else to go? Jews were there first anyway. Blame the Placaens (not sure if that's spelled right) and the Romans

Oh now I know,let me just go to to Spain, kick people out. I was there first after all

[Crurnlark]

Oh now I know,let me just go to to Spain, kick people out. I was there first after all

I agree with this fellow- the distant history of the region shouldn't be weighted as much as it is in the current debates. Whether people love or hate what the UN has done to this region, Israel is already a self-sufficient state, and talking about the morality of its existence is a purely academic dispute. It looks like a two state solution would help the most people- nobody is really arguing against that, right?

[Valaran]

Yep, Jews were there first.

I'm fairly certain people other than the Jews were there first, they just didn't happen to write a surviving book about it.

[Internationalist Bastard]

Oh now I know,let me just go to to Spain, kick people out. I was there first after all

I agree with this fellow- the distant history of the region shouldn't be weighted as much as it is in the current debates. Whether people love or hate what the UN has done to this region, Israel is already a self-sufficient state, and talking about the morality of its existence is a purely academic dispute. It looks like a two state solution would help the most people- nobody is really arguing against that, right?

This

[Valaran]

I agree with this fellow- the distant history of the region shouldn't be weighted as much as it is in the current debates. Whether people love or hate what the UN has done to this region, Israel is already a self-sufficient state, and talking about the morality of its existence is a purely academic dispute. It looks like a two state solution would help the most people- nobody is really arguing against that, right?

I strongly agree on your points, but this unfortunately is not an academic dispute. Many people on both sides of the debate view as something more, and will actively kill for their respective sides. It should be an academic dispute, but this is far too politicised and caused far too much suffering to actually reduce it to that.

That aside, you hit the nail on the head.

[Internationalist Bastard]

Yep, Jews were there first.

I'm fairly certain people other than the Jews were there first, they just didn't happen to write a surviving book about it.

Like the people the Torah says they conquered

[Crurnlark]

Like the people the Torah says they conquered

I'll admit, I'd be intrigued by surviving Canaanites or whatever attempting to lay a claim on Israel.

[Valaran]

I'm fairly certain people other than the Jews were there first, they just didn't happen to write a surviving book about it.

Like the people the Torah says they conquered

That's not strictly a historical work, but it still seems fanciful to assume the jew were the first and only group to settle there.

[Internationalist Bastard]

Like the people the Torah says they conquered

That's not strictly a historical work, but it still seems fanciful to assume the jew were the first and only group to settle there.

I don't think it's accurate but I think there's a bit of truth in it.
History painted up in religion, if you would

[Valaran]

That's not strictly a historical work, but it still seems fanciful to assume the jew were the first and only group to settle there.

I don't think it's accurate but I think there's a bit of truth in it.
History painted up in religion, if you would

As someone who studies historical works from the period, the Bible is pretty inaccurate even by the standards of the day. The Old testament a collection of mythological tropes found right across the Fertile Crescent - aside from supportive archaeological evidence (of which there is a decent amount) there is no given reason we should to believe any of it. The simple answer in many cases, is that we can't determine what is true and what isn't - sure passage x doesn't have God smiting something (though almost all do), but does make it more accurate? Not at all. Even when determining the 'kernel' of truth, this becomes nearly impossible - what is the kernel? And this is before we get into textual corruption, dating problems, when it was complied, who edited it, and for what purpose, and so on. So, its less history painted as religion, and more a horrifying soup of ideas, beliefs, misappropriated facts, in which there may or may not be some history.

(This is only the Old Testament I am referring to)

E: Arch could probably give a more detailed rundown of what we have evidence for or not. Generally, however, our other historical records start to coincide with 9th century BC, but its still very hazy until the Neo-Assyrian Empire gets a mention, and both areas are well after the supposed Canaanite conquest.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Jews weren't the first people to settle in what's now Palestine, but also, the Zionists may not even be the right Jews the Qur'an, Bible and Torah speak of. Musa (Moses in Arabic [SAWS]) freed the Hebrews for Kemetic slavery, taking them to what's now Palestine and created the Jewish kingdoms. Note that I said [i]HEBREWS/[u]/[i]. There are also another ethnic Jewish group called the Ashkenazi Jews, who were persecuted during the Nazi regime of Germany. With the petition in 1948, the UN [u]gave the land to Jews who may not even have been the right Jews the 3 Holy Books talk about. But there is a possibility that the Ashkenazi Jews may be the Hebrews, in that the Hebrews may have migrated to Europe and evolved into the Ashkenazi Jews we see today.

[Menassa]

Jews weren't the first people to settle in what's now Palestine, but also, the Zionists may not even be the right Jews the Qur'an, Bible and Torah speak of. Musa (Moses in Arabic [SAWS]) freed the Hebrews for Kemetic slavery, taking them to what's now Palestine and created the Jewish kingdoms. Note that I said [i]HEBREWS/[u]/[i]. There are also another ethnic Jewish group called the Ashkenazi Jews, who were persecuted during the Nazi regime of Germany. With the petition in 1948, the UN [u]gave the land to Jews who may not even have been the right Jews the 3 Holy Books talk about. But there is a possibility that the Ashkenazi Jews may be the Hebrews, in that the Hebrews may have migrated to Europe and evolved into the Ashkenazi Jews we see today.

That's not a 'possibility' that's a genetic fact.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Jews weren't the first people to settle in what's now Palestine, but also, the Zionists may not even be the right Jews the Qur'an, Bible and Torah speak of. Musa (Moses in Arabic [SAWS]) freed the Hebrews for Kemetic slavery, taking them to what's now Palestine and created the Jewish kingdoms. Note that I said [i]HEBREWS/[u]/[i]. There are also another ethnic Jewish group called the Ashkenazi Jews, who were persecuted during the Nazi regime of Germany. With the petition in 1948, the UN [u]gave the land to Jews who may not even have been the right Jews the 3 Holy Books talk about. But there is a possibility that the Ashkenazi Jews may be the Hebrews, in that the Hebrews may have migrated to Europe and evolved into the Ashkenazi Jews we see today.

That's not a 'possibility' that's a genetic fact.

Can I see it?

[House of Judah]

You what?

From all historical explorations the most likely and most widely accepted explanation of the emergence of Ashkenazi Jews are emigrations of Jews from Southern Europe, the communities of which emerged primarily from the Diaspora throughout the Roman Empire.

[Unified Heartless States]

As a Jew who has always lived in a relatively christian area of the U.S. (a.k.a. all of it), knowing how the U.S. has treated us in the past, and experiencing the overwhelming dislike of our Israeli favoritism among the populace, I've always felt relatively insecure in the U.S. So, nations from the states or otherwise, how do you guys feel about us, and what do you think of supporting Israel as a nation?

You should leave

[Menassa]

That's not a 'possibility' that's a genetic fact.

Can I see it?

http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencen ... story.html

The rest of the Ashkenazi genome comes from the Middle East,

http://www.haaretz.com/jewish/features/1.601287

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khazar_th ... i_ancestry

According to Jon Entine, historians and scientists believe the Khazarian theory should more accurately be called a myth

[Menassa]

As a Jew who has always lived in a relatively christian area of the U.S. (a.k.a. all of it), knowing how the U.S. has treated us in the past, and experiencing the overwhelming dislike of our Israeli favoritism among the populace, I've always felt relatively insecure in the U.S. So, nations from the states or otherwise, how do you guys feel about us, and what do you think of supporting Israel as a nation?

You should leave

Leave where?