Muslim prayer hall set on fire in Corsica

[Crockerland]

Ex-Muslim.

I'm rather glad i left. Well, i guess it works both ways then. I criticise your backward, socially outdated ideology. And you can argue desperately that Shariah is ultimately good, even though History likes to disagree with your assertion.

My country is ruined thanks to that justice system. I'm just glad Iran's beginning to come out of it at least. Shariah can only work for so long..

You don't even have a good grasp on what Shari'ah is.

He has a much better grasp than you.

[Kriga]

Ex-Muslim.

I'm rather glad i left. Well, i guess it works both ways then. I criticise your backward, socially outdated ideology. And you can argue desperately that Shariah is ultimately good, even though History likes to disagree with your assertion.

My country is ruined thanks to that justice system. I'm just glad Iran's beginning to come out of it at least. Shariah can only work for so long..

You don't even have a good grasp on what Shari'ah is.

It's quite simply Islamic jurisprudence. However you like to characterize it, it's a practice of law that unwisely merges religon and law. You can be as techical as you like with me, nitpick aspects of your law. But, frankly, I'd rather prefer my civil liberties over being dictated on what I should eat or wear.

But, hey. It's your view man, just as much as I have a right to my view. And, as far as I kmow, I think humanity is coming at the stage where religion has no role in any state function.

[Jochistan]

You don't even have a good grasp on what Shari'ah is.

He has a much better grasp than you.

Because he agrees with you.
Even though he's not even Muslim and thinks that it's automatically some fundamentalist shit?

I really, really don't think you of all people know the actual concepts of Islamic doctrine besides "lol jihad"

[Jochistan]

You can be as techical as you like with me, nitpick aspects of your law. But, frankly, I'd rather prefer my civil liberties over being dictated on what I should eat or wear.

"You can go into facts as much as you want, but I'd rather make up my own morality."

I honestly really don't care what you eat or wear. Shariah will still exist even if it's seperate from the state. I don't care if you automatically associate Shari'ah with "Ooga Booga muh Stone age legalism!" It's just not the case. It's Just Gods laws and codes. Every major religion is like that.

[Napkiraly]

He has a much better grasp than you.

Because he agrees with you.
Even though he's not even Muslim

Tbf he stated he was an ex-Muslim.

[Krieg Reich]

Europe is for Europeans, Arabia is for Arabs.

Its not a hard concept to understand.

[Jochistan]

Because he agrees with you.
Even though he's not even Muslim

Tbf he stated he was an ex-Muslim.

Yes, yes, I'm sure their parents would make them to read the Qur'an and Pray in their adolescence.

[Crockerland]

He has a much better grasp than you.

Because he agrees with you.
Even though he's not even Muslim

He is an ex-Muslim lmao, he just said he was.

and thinks that it's automatically some fundamentalist shit?

Not automatically, it factually is though.

I really, really don't think you of all people know the actual concepts of Islamic doctrine besides "lol jihad"

I know about not taking a Jew or Christian as a friend (Quran 5:51), giving a woman 1/2 of a man's share in inheritance (Quran 4:11), that men are "a degree above" women (Quran 2:228), and of course that all women are forbidden to you besides your wife.... and slaves and captives who your right hand possesses (Quran 4:24)

[Jochistan]

Because he agrees with you.
Even though he's not even Muslim

He is an ex-Muslim lmao, he just said he was.

and thinks that it's automatically some fundamentalist shit?

Not automatically, it factually is though.

I really, really don't think you of all people know the actual concepts of Islamic doctrine besides "lol jihad"

I know about not taking a Jew or Christian as a friend (Quran 5:51), giving a woman 1/2 of a man's share in inheritance (Quran 4:11), that men are "a degree above" women (Quran 2:228), and of course that all women are forbidden to you besides your wife.... and slaves and captives who your right hand possesses (Quran 4:24)

Actual scholars have a weird opinion on those. https://youtu.be/yDIAN4I0wBA

And my Qur'an says protectors in the translation of "wali". Don't know what to tell you there, fam.

But by all means, keep throwing snippets you got from religionofpeace.org...oh, sorry "Strrrrrrrrrraight from the Kor-aan"

[Napkiraly]

Tbf he stated he was an ex-Muslim.

Yes, yes, I'm sure their parents would make them to read the Qur'an and Pray in their adolescence.

I'm sure you know his grasp of knowledge simply because he doesn't have a high opinion of religious based legal systems.

[Kriga]

You can be as techical as you like with me, nitpick aspects of your law. But, frankly, I'd rather prefer my civil liberties over being dictated on what I should eat or wear.

"You can go into facts as much as you want, but I'd rather make up my own morality."

I honestly really don't care what you eat or wear. Shariah will still exist even if it's seperate from the state. I don't care if you automatically associate Shari'ah with "Ooga Booga muh Stone age legalism!" It's just not the case. It's Just Gods laws and codes. Every major religion is like that.

Someone is quite upset.

Well, Shariah seems to care. otherwise, i'd be allowed to drink alcohol and eat Pork in both Iran, Saudi Arabia and any country with Shariah.

You are right. Every major religion is like that, no one is saying otherwise right now. But we are talking about Islam, and frankly, Shariah law is no different from the laws that the Catholic Church would impose on "Christendom." It is backwards, and has no place in Liberal Democracies.

I frankly don't see why you're trying to humanise it. It is an old law, and it needs to be replaced with a new, modern and secular law based on humanist, liberal principles.

Not religious ones.

[Crockerland]

Actual scholars have a weird opinion on those. https://youtu.be/yDIAN4I0wBA

Actual scholars like Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, who has a doctorate in Islamic studies, and is the leader of the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant?

And my Qur'an says protectors in the translation of "wali". Don't know what to tell you there, fam.

The treatment of Jews and Christians by the prophet Muhammed (peace be upon him) indicates my translation was correct.

But by all means, keep throwing snippets you got from religionofpeace.org... oh, sorry "Strrrrrrrrrraight from the Kor-aan"

Sure thing.
Qur’an 69:44-46
"And if he [Muhammad (peace be upon him)] had forged a false saying concerning Us [Allah] We surely should have seized him by his right hand, and then certainly should have cut off his life artery (Aorta)"

But really I prefer the Hadith

Bukhari 64:450
"The Prophet in his ailment in which he died, used to say, “O Aishah! I still feel the pain caused by the food I ate at Khaibar, and at this time, I feel as if my aorta is being cut from that poison."

Tabari 8:124
"The messenger of God said during the illness from which he died - the mother of Bishr had come in to visit him - "Umm Bishr, at this very moment I feel my aorta being severed because of the food I ate with your son at Khaybar.""

[Jochistan]

Actual scholars have a weird opinion on those. https://youtu.be/yDIAN4I0wBA

Actual scholars like Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, who has a doctorate in Islamic studies, and is the leader of the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant?

And my Qur'an says protectors in the translation of "wali". Don't know what to tell you there, fam.

The treatment of Jews and Christians by the prophet Muhammed (peace be upon him) indicates my translation was correct.

But by all means, keep throwing snippets you got from religionofpeace.org... oh, sorry "Strrrrrrrrrraight from the Kor-aan"

Sure thing.
Qur’an 69:44-46
"And if he [Muhammad (peace be upon him)] had forged a false saying concerning Us [Allah] We surely should have seized him by his right hand, and then certainly should have cut off his life artery (Aorta)"

But really I prefer the Hadith

Bukhari 64:450
"The Prophet in his ailment in which he died, used to say, “O Aishah! I still feel the pain caused by the food I ate at Khaibar, and at this time, I feel as if my aorta is being cut from that poison."

Tabari 8:124
"The messenger of God said during the illness from which he died - the mother of Bishr had come in to visit him - "Umm Bishr, at this very moment I feel my aorta being severed because of the food I ate with your son at Khaybar.""

Actual Scholars as in ones from non Salafi Wahhabi schools.

Hadith contradicting the Qur'an, even if they are in Bukhari and grouped among the Hadith deemd to be the most authentic out of the rest, are to be set aside
https://asharisassemble.com/hadith/
According to most Classical schools of Usul al Fiqh anyway.

[Kriga]

Actual scholars like Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, who has a doctorate in Islamic studies, and is the leader of the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant?


The treatment of Jews and Christians by the prophet Muhammed (peace be upon him) indicates my translation was correct.

Sure thing.
Qur’an 69:44-46
"And if he [Muhammad (peace be upon him)] had forged a false saying concerning Us [Allah] We surely should have seized him by his right hand, and then certainly should have cut off his life artery (Aorta)"

But really I prefer the Hadith

Bukhari 64:450
"The Prophet in his ailment in which he died, used to say, “O Aishah! I still feel the pain caused by the food I ate at Khaibar, and at this time, I feel as if my aorta is being cut from that poison."

Tabari 8:124
"The messenger of God said during the illness from which he died - the mother of Bishr had come in to visit him - "Umm Bishr, at this very moment I feel my aorta being severed because of the food I ate with your son at Khaybar.""

Actual Scholars as in ones from non Salafi Wahhabi schools.

Hadith contradicting the Qur'an, even if they are in Bukhari and grouped among the Hadith deemd to be the most authentic out of the rest, are to be set aside.

iranians don't follow Wahabbi schools of thought, and their government is considered to extremist. So what's your point? Wahhabi Islam isn't the only form of extremism in Islamic ideology. All sects have hardliners and these sects have become radically politicised in the Middle East. Its getting better in some places (e.g: iran, Jordan), albeit with slow progress.

Religion and its sects need to be kept separate from politics and state matters. That is the only way you gurrauntue liberalism and better freedoms. Religion has a role in private worship and even charitable works, but that should be it.

Otherwise, it will lead to dogmatism and supremacist views on Religion.

[Jochistan]

Actual Scholars as in ones from non Salafi Wahhabi schools.

Hadith contradicting the Qur'an, even if they are in Bukhari and grouped among the Hadith deemd to be the most authentic out of the rest, are to be set aside.

iranians don't follow Wahabbi schools of thought, so what's your point? Wahhabi Islam isn't the only form of extremism in Islamic ideology. All sects have hardliners and these sects have become radically politicised in the Middle East. Its getting better in some places (e.g: iran, Jordan), albeit with slow progress.

Islamic Fundamentalism in general.

Salafism is not a sect.

I use them most often because they are the most prominent at this point in time. Khomeinists and Qutbists are just as bad, but much smaller in number and, to be frank, influence.

[Kriga]

iranians don't follow Wahabbi schools of thought, so what's your point? Wahhabi Islam isn't the only form of extremism in Islamic ideology. All sects have hardliners and these sects have become radically politicised in the Middle East. Its getting better in some places (e.g: iran, Jordan), albeit with slow progress.

Islamic Fundamentalism in general.

Salafism is not a sect.

I use them most often because they are the most prominent at this point in time. Khomeinists and Qutbists are just as bad, but much smaller in number and, to be frank, influence.

No, its a sect within a sect, albeit a movement that promotes mysticism and has a more liberal alignment to science. Nevertheless, its not secular or liberal socially.

Now, i am not liberalism is ultimately the best. It has its flaws, but it allows civil liberties. The right to choose who you want to marry, love, worship, vote for, report on, dress as, etc.

As far as i am aware, no other form of Islam does that....they don't have to, but ideologically, its backwards and very Conservative to the point where it curtails civil liberties.

Sufi or not, i'm quite sure they'd still kill someone for being Gay or committing apostasy.

[Kriga]

iranians don't follow Wahabbi schools of thought, so what's your point? Wahhabi Islam isn't the only form of extremism in Islamic ideology. All sects have hardliners and these sects have become radically politicised in the Middle East. Its getting better in some places (e.g: iran, Jordan), albeit with slow progress.

Islamic Fundamentalism in general.

Salafism is not a sect.

I use them most often because they are the most prominent at this point in time. Khomeinists and Qutbists are just as bad, but much smaller in number and, to be frank, influence.

Sorry. Got confused. Salafism is the worst of the worst when it comes to Islamic sects (or sect within a sect).

Sufism is a more refined, learned idea, but nevertheless backward.

[Wallenburg]

Europe is for Europeans, Arabia is for Arabs.

Its not a hard concept to understand.

[Jochistan]

Islamic Fundamentalism in general.

Salafism is not a sect.

I use them most often because they are the most prominent at this point in time. Khomeinists and Qutbists are just as bad, but much smaller in number and, to be frank, influence.

No, its a sect within a sect, albeit a movement that promotes mysticism and has a more liberal alignment to science. Nevertheless, its not secular or liberal socially.

Now, i am not liberalism is ultimately the best. It has its flaws, but it allows civil liberties. The right to choose who you want to marry, love, worship, vote for, report on, dress as, etc.

As far as i am aware, no other form of Islam does that....they don't have to, but ideologically, its backwards and very Conservative to the point where it curtails civil liberties.

Sufi or not, i'm quite sure they'd still kill someone for being Gay or committing apostasy.

Just because you are morally opposed to a thing and are socially conservative doesn't mean you want to kill people for it.

And theres very few people from non Salafi/Khomeinist movements that want to kill for apostasy.

[Kriga]

No, its a sect within a sect, albeit a movement that promotes mysticism and has a more liberal alignment to science. Nevertheless, its not secular or liberal socially.

Now, i am not liberalism is ultimately the best. It has its flaws, but it allows civil liberties. The right to choose who you want to marry, love, worship, vote for, report on, dress as, etc.

As far as i am aware, no other form of Islam does that....they don't have to, but ideologically, its backwards and very Conservative to the point where it curtails civil liberties.

Sufi or not, i'm quite sure they'd still kill someone for being Gay or committing apostasy.

Just because you are morally opposed to a thing and are socially conservative doesn't mean you want to kill people for it.

And theres very few people from non Salafi/Khomeinist movements that want to kill for apostasy.

Well, in the case of Shariah law, which is what most sects in islam do follow, you will get killed for crimes such as apostasy and violating their 'moral' code.

[Jochistan]

Just because you are morally opposed to a thing and are socially conservative doesn't mean you want to kill people for it.

And theres very few people from non Salafi/Khomeinist movements that want to kill for apostasy.

Well, in the case of Shariah law, which is what most sects in islam do follow, you will get killed for crimes such as apostasy and violating their 'moral' code.

All sects in Islam follow Shari'ah. As Shari'ah is just...God's commandments. You can follow gods commandments from whatever direction you will.
According to what school, creed and movement you take, you have a different way of Islamic law.

In Traditional Islam and Liberal alike, there have been loads of explanations for the subject and lack of worldly punishment for apostasy.
http://apostasyandislam.blogspot.com/20 ... g.html?m=1

[Jochistan]

But no matter what you think the text of a religion actually means. You don't go around burning random Mosques and Muslims.

[The Alma Mater]

But no matter what you think the text of a religion actually means. You don't go around burning random Mosques and Muslims.

Agreed. But you do not start to yell "Islamaphobia ! The west is intolerant" either without first looking at the figures.

If for instance there are 2 counts of violent hatecrimes committed against muslims in a country this year, and 37.000 counts committed by muslims - such cries only cause the general population to be annoyed.

[Jochistan]

But no matter what you think the text of a religion actually means. You don't go around burning random Mosques and Muslims.

Agreed. But you do not start to yell "Islamaphobia ! The west is intolerant" either without first looking at the figures.

If for instance there are 2 counts of violent hatecrimes committed against muslims in a country this year, and 37.000 counts committed by muslims - such cries only cause the general population to be annoyed.

And blaming the attacks on Muslims in general instead of getting to the root of the problem is going to help, how?

Every time theres a Nazi Rally or shooting or attempted coup I don't demand all right wing people to be viewed as absolute burdens on the progress of the human species.

[Zeinbrad]

But no matter what you think the text of a religion actually means. You don't go around burning random Mosques and Muslims.

Agreed. But you do not start to yell "Islamaphobia ! The west is intolerant" either without first looking at the figures.

If for instance there are 2 counts of violent hatecrimes committed against muslims in a country this year, and 37.000 counts committed by muslims - such cries only cause the general population to be annoyed.

You may want to say the country, and give a source, as otherwise it looks like your lying and pulling numbers out of your ass.