Muslim prayer hall set on fire in Corsica

[Sanctissima]

-sigh-

Everyone keeps going on about the integration thing but I sincerely wonder how knowledgeable people actually are on the subject. Sure, there's been a few conflicts with migrants and immigrants over the years, but overwhelmingly the real problem has been second and third generation Muslims that are by all means native citizens of their respective countries. In particular, the Salafis.

Sure, the recent wave of Muslims coming to Europe holds some very conservative values. Islam tends to be a conservative religion, and I can see how that might be an issue for Western Europe and its very liberal values. But that hardly presents a reason why Muslims cannot integrate, much less a reason to deny them immigration or outright persecute them. They've been integrating just fine for hundreds of years, so unless you want them to flat out assimilate themselves into French, German, English or whatever culture is in question, allegations that their religion is incompatible with Western European values and that they cannot integrate are baseless. The problem lies with the Salafis, and with the Saudi-funded mosques and madrasas that Western European governments have ignored for decades. These are the ones who have been indoctrinated to hate the West, who become terrorists, and who are responsible for attacks like those in Paris and Brussels. Those are the Muslims you should be concerned about, not this rag-tag bunch of refugees.

As a Muslim myself, I wouldn't call Al-Islam a conservative religion, but nonetheless I agree with you on everything else.

I dunno, when it started out it was very liberal, when compared to the other Abrahamic religions of the time. But that was well over a millenia ago, and times change. While there are certain exceptions, the bulk of modern Islam is what I'd call a conservative religion. Even the Sufis, some of the most mystical and in many ways liberal of Muslims, hold some very conservative values. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but I don't think one can reasonably say that Islam is quite as comparatively liberal as it was when it was founded.

[Napkiraly]

Okay. White people have never killed innocent people.
Nor have German.
Nor have terrorists.
Nor have Crusaders.
Christians.
Men.
Women.
Psychopaths.

I mean we can continue playing semantics all if you want.

Fact is, there are people who identify as Muslims. Practice Islam more or less. And have killed people for various reasons. From religion to drug deals to domestic disputes.

The reason I say that is because a Muslim is someone who abides by Al-Islam the best they can. So almost all of those examples you have are wrong except Christians. Christians have not killed people, crazy people who warp Christianity to their wants are the killers. Same for Muslims and any other religion, political ideology or anything on those lines.

This doesn't stop them from being Muslims. What you're playing is No True Scotsman. Not falling for it. By your standards, Muhammad himself wasn't a Muslim.

[Sanctissima]

If people are the problem then i advocate that we simply remove ourselves from the equation.

I've been campaigning for #RemoveHumanity2016, wanna donate to the cause?

You joke, but there are people who genuinely hold those views:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntary_Human_Extinction_Movement

They tend to be a bit... unique.

[Washington Resistance Army]

I've been campaigning for #RemoveHumanity2016, wanna donate to the cause?

You joke, but there are people who genuinely hold those views:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntary_Human_Extinction_Movement

They tend to be a bit... unique.

Simply amazing, I love the world.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

As a Muslim myself, I wouldn't call Al-Islam a conservative religion, but nonetheless I agree with you on everything else.

I dunno, when it started out it was very liberal, when compared to the other Abrahamic religions of the time. But that was well over a millenia ago, and times change. While there are certain exceptions, the bulk of modern Islam is what I'd call a conservative religion. Even the Sufis, some of the most mystical and in many ways liberal of Muslims, hold some very conservative values. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but I don't think one can reasonably say that Islam is quite as comparatively liberal as it was when it was founded.

I understand what you're typing. But Islam doesn't change over time, Muslims do. So I feel what you said refers to us Muslims who practice Islam.

[Kautharr]

I've been campaigning for #RemoveHumanity2016, wanna donate to the cause?

You joke, but there are people who genuinely hold those views:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntary_Human_Extinction_Movement

They tend to be a bit... unique.

I am listening to the spoken word version of it and it's done by Simon Whistler hahahahhaha

[Napkiraly]

The crusades were a response to centuries of violence against Christians at the hands of the Saracens.

I don't give a shit.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

The reason I say that is because a Muslim is someone who abides by Al-Islam the best they can. So almost all of those examples you have are wrong except Christians. Christians have not killed people, crazy people who warp Christianity to their wants are the killers. Same for Muslims and any other religion, political ideology or anything on those lines.

This doesn't stop them from being Muslims. What you're playing is No True Scotsman. Not falling for it. By your standards, Muhammad himself wasn't a Muslim.

Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) was the person that was revealed the Holy Qur'an, so he's the best person to abide by Islam. Anyone who does things outsides of Islam for a really long time and doesn't ask for forgiveness or repent is quickly slipping away from the deen (religion). And I read up on No True Scotsman an still don't understand it, eve by reading examples I don't understand it.

[Sanctissima]

I dunno, when it started out it was very liberal, when compared to the other Abrahamic religions of the time. But that was well over a millenia ago, and times change. While there are certain exceptions, the bulk of modern Islam is what I'd call a conservative religion. Even the Sufis, some of the most mystical and in many ways liberal of Muslims, hold some very conservative values. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but I don't think one can reasonably say that Islam is quite as comparatively liberal as it was when it was founded.

I understand what you're typing. But Islam doesn't change over time, Muslims do. So I feel what you said refers to us Muslims who practice Islam.

Eh, I'd say the religion itself does change over time. I mean, sure, the Quran itself doesn't, but Islam is more than just an embodiment of the Quran. Muslims try to live what they believe is the way Muhammad intended them to, but the interpretation of that way changes all the time, and Islam is the interpretation.

[Napkiraly]

This doesn't stop them from being Muslims. What you're playing is No True Scotsman. Not falling for it. By your standards, Muhammad himself wasn't a Muslim.

Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) was the person that was revealed the Holy Qur'an, so he's the best person to abide by Islam. Anyone who does things outsides of Islam for a really long time and doesn't ask for forgiveness or repent is quickly slipping away from the deen (religion). And I read up on No True Scotsman an still don't understand it, eve by reading examples I don't understand it.

Abu 'Afak. Massacre of the Banu Qurayza.

What about it don't you understand?

[El-Amin Caliphate]

I understand what you're typing. But Islam doesn't change over time, Muslims do. So I feel what you said refers to us Muslims who practice Islam.

Eh, I'd say the religion itself does change over time. I mean, sure, the Quran itself doesn't, but Islam is more than just an embodiment of the Quran. Muslims try to live what they believe is the way Muhammad intended them to, but the interpretation of that way changes all the time, and Islam is the interpretation.

Hm, you have a point.

[Xadufell]

To me, this isn't "Islamophobia" but simply a show of how angry the people of Corsica are.
Think about it, how would you feel if some foreigners came into your country and refused to respect your culture? (Here I'm talking about the more radical ones, not the moderate Muslims)
I know that violence is almost never a good thing, (To me there are exceptions) but I do feel like the people who set the fire were most likely doing it to show that they aren't going to sit idly by while immigrants take over their island.

[Kautharr]

To me, this isn't "Islamophobia" but simply a show of how angry the people of Corsica are.
Think about it, how would you feel if some foreigners came into your country and refused to respect your culture? (Here I'm talking about the more radical ones, not the moderate Muslims)
I know that violence is almost never a good thing, (To me there are exceptions) but I do feel like the people who set the fire were most likely doing it to show that they aren't going to sit idly by while immigrants take over their island.

I agree 100% except sadly you'll just get banned because most of the forum are PC and pro-islam

[Sanctissima]

.
Nor have Crusaders.

The crusades were a response to centuries of violence against Christians at the hands of the Saracens.

I dunno if I'd go that far. Christians and other non-Muslims only really started to be oppressed in the Levant after the coming of the Seljuk Turks. Prior to that, they were mostly left alone, and the only religious group that faced any real persecution by Muslims was the Zoroastrians in Persia, particularly during the time of the Abbasid Caliphate.

Before the beginning of the First Crusade, the Seljuks had barely been around in the region for a century, so Christians weren't being persecuted by Muslims for quite as long as you suggest. And even then, the main reasons the Crusades began wasn't because the Papacy or even the crusaders cared about Levantine Christians. The massacre of Christians by crusaders that ensued following the Siege of Jerusalem shows that they really did not give a damn.

[Gauthier]

To me, this isn't "Islamophobia" but simply a show of how angry the people of Corsica are.
Think about it, how would you feel if some foreigners came into your country and refused to respect your culture? (Here I'm talking about the more radical ones, not the moderate Muslims)
I know that violence is almost never a good thing, (To me there are exceptions) but I do feel like the people who set the fire were most likely doing it to show that they aren't going to sit idly by while immigrants take over their island.

I agree 100% except sadly you'll just get banned because most of the forum are PC and pro-islam

Note: Understanding why some people set fire to a mosque isn't anything like explicitly cheerleading support for the arsonists. Like you did.

[Kautharr]

I agree 100% except sadly you'll just get banned because most of the forum are PC and pro-islam

Note: Understanding why some people set fire to a mosque isn't anything like explicitly cheerleading support for the arsonists. Like you did.

I wasn't cheerleading for them. I was supporting their cause and like I stated, I was fine if no one died or was injured.

[Gauthier]

Note: Understanding why some people set fire to a mosque isn't anything like explicitly cheerleading support for the arsonists. Like you did.

I wasn't cheerleading for them. I was supporting their cause and like I stated, I was fine if no one died or was injured.

Exactly like you'd support someone if they burnt down a church or synagogue as long as no one died, amirite?

[Unified Heartless States]

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-corsica-violence-idUSKCN0XR09E

A Muslim prayer hall was seriously damaged by fire overnight in the capital of the French island of Corsica, local authorities said, four months after a separate Muslim prayer hall there was ransacked. No one was injured in the fire in Ajaccio, which police are investigating as criminal after finding two separate sources of fire inside the hall.

So, NSG, it seems there has been an attack on a Muslim prayer hall in Corsica. This is not the first time Islamophobic attacks have been carried out in France and in Corsica. Sadly, women in hijabs being harassed and mosques vandalized are nothing new in the land of post-structuralism and guillotined monarchs. But, most importantly, I want to know what are your thoughts on this. I, for one, am anxious to see European liberals rationalizing this as a natural reaction to the Charlie Hedbo and Paris attacks that happened last year. Does that, in your opinion, make these attacks on the Islamic community of France justifiable, NSG? Should they brace themselves for dark times to come? Are you happy that Muslims in Europe are being attacked? Is it their fault for not being assimilated into European Culture™? Comment below.

Go back to tumblur, facts matter here.
This is once again another case of muslims getting what they give.

Around Christmas day, 2015, muslims took it upon themselves to attack police and firefighters. In response, it set off several protests in which people would stand in front of mosques and announce that they will stand with their police and firefighters. I believe it's the second mosque to be burned down, another one was burned down 4 or so months ago in relation to these same protests. The reason these protests have lasted this long is likely due to the fact that muslims tend to act like idiots when invited to a host country and the France government, in its wisdom, placed a ban on all protests within Ajaccio (only adding petrol to the flames). Considering these protesters have yet to kill anyone, (unlike muslims >.>, yet again), I just can't be bothered to care about their plight.

What's with the "™"?

[Kautharr]

I wasn't cheerleading for them. I was supporting their cause and like I stated, I was fine if no one died or was injured.

Exactly like you'd support someone if they burnt down a church or synagogue as long as no one died, amirite?

I don't support anti-christian or anti-jewish causes, I support the cause to take back Europe from Islamization attempts from the zionists and "refugees"

[Gauthier]

Exactly like you'd support someone if they burnt down a church or synagogue as long as no one died, amirite?

I don't support anti-christian or anti-jewish causes, I support the cause to take back Europe from Islamization attempts from the zionists and "refugees"

Hypocrisy noted.

[Napkiraly]

The crusades were a response to centuries of violence against Christians at the hands of the Saracens.

I dunno if I'd go that far. Christians and other non-Muslims only really started to be oppressed in the Levant after the coming of the Seljuk Turks. Prior to that, they were mostly left alone, and the only religious group that faced any real persecution by Muslims was the Zoroastrians in Persia, particularly during the time of the Abbasid Caliphate.

Before the beginning of the First Crusade, the Seljuks had barely been around in the region for a century, so Christians weren't being persecuted by Muslims for quite as long as you suggest. And even then, the main reasons the Crusades began wasn't because the Papacy or even the crusaders cared about Levantine Christians. The massacre of Christians by crusaders that ensued following the Siege of Jerusalem shows that they really did not give a damn.

Contrary to popular belief, it is believed no Christians were killed in the ensuing massacre. There are accounts suggesting the Christian population had been expelled before the Crusaders arrived.

[Kautharr]

I don't support anti-christian or anti-jewish causes, I support the cause to take back Europe from Islamization attempts from the zionists and "refugees"

Hypocrisy noted.

would be great if you could elaborate on that

[Kriga]

Now that you've cleared it up I see what you're saying. The West could build religious schools though since it already does that.

How about no?

I am not saying we should build religious schools. I believe in secularism, separation of church/mosque/synagogue and state. Religion has no right to define what the state's functions, and should only be religious institutions that individuals choose to worship. I am simply saying that refugees need to be integrated and assimilated into the country they choose to settle in. They must learn the language, adopt to different social policies and enjoy their new life here without feeling distressed or sticking to conventions in their culture that can be morally repugnant to ours (e.g: Honour Killings, which is a very cultural tradition, or advocating for 6th century religion to take over that country).

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Hypocrisy noted.

would be great if you could elaborate on that

You don't support anti-Christian/Jewish causes but support banning 'Islamization' from coming (Muslim refugees) to seek a better life.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

How about no?

I am not saying we should build religious schools. I believe in secularism, separation of church/mosque/synagogue and state. Religion has no right to define what the state's functions, and should only be religious institutions that individuals choose to worship. I am simply saying that refugees need to be integrated and assimilated into the country they choose to settle in. They must learn the language, adopt to different social policies and enjoy their new life here without feeling distressed or sticking to conventions in their culture that can be morally repugnant to ours (e.g: Honour Killings, which is a very cultural tradition, or advocating for 6th century religion to take over that country).

Religious schools don't necessarily make a country a religious state.