NationStates

Kriga wrote:

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:That's cultural imperialism. If a country calls itself democratic, it must let people express themselves. Culture is one way of it. Besides, how do you expect people to throw away who they are? It not going to happen, so both sides must learn about one another.

We're not expecting them to throw it away, but again, how do you foster cohesion and unity? Do you let them have their own schools? If you think my proposition is cultural imperialism, then the alternative would be to segregate them.

We shouldn't change our schooling to meet their religious or cultural demands. That distorts unity and breeds tension. I am not saying we should outright convert them to Western values, but as a western, liberal, secular society, we should at least follow the same system we have before they came here, and not change it for their needs. If they come here, they should learn the language and understand the values their host country wants. Otherwise, it breeds nothing but tension and hatred on both sides.

Now that you've cleared it up I see what you're saying. The West could build religious schools though since it already does that. With he Western values thing, I understand what you're saying there too. True, language learning would help, but having Arabic classes would help also.

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:

Kriga wrote:
We're not expecting them to throw it away, but again, how do you foster cohesion and unity? Do you let them have their own schools? If you think my proposition is cultural imperialism, then the alternative would be to segregate them.

We shouldn't change our schooling to meet their religious or cultural demands. That distorts unity and breeds tension. I am not saying we should outright convert them to Western values, but as a western, liberal, secular society, we should at least follow the same system we have before they came here, and not change it for their needs. If they come here, they should learn the language and understand the values their host country wants. Otherwise, it breeds nothing but tension and hatred on both sides.

Now that you've cleared it up I see what you're saying. The West could build religious schools though since it already does that. With he Western values thing, I understand what you're saying there too. True, language learning would help, but having Arabic classes would help also.

Where do you get the silly idea that Arabic classes and Islamic schools haven't been around in Europe for the past 40 years or so ?

The Alma Mater wrote:

Federation of Allied States wrote:It seems Europe is slowly becoming more and more toxic to innocent muslims who have made their home there. This Islamophobia disgusts me.

For the record: for each incident against muslims there are still a few 100 incidents by muslims.
Viewed like that, there is no toxicity problem

Muslims don't kill innocent people, people kill innocent people. Goes the same of almost every religion and it's sects.

The Alma Mater wrote:

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Now that you've cleared it up I see what you're saying. The West could build religious schools though since it already does that. With he Western values thing, I understand what you're saying there too. True, language learning would help, but having Arabic classes would help also.

Where do you get the silly idea that Arabic classes and Islamic schools haven't been around in Europe for the past 40 years or so ?

It would've been a lot more respectful to say "Arabic and Islamic courses have already been in Europe for at least 40 years". I would've thanked you for the information.

Waldriech wrote:I don't feel sorry. How about Muslims stop murdering Christians, and killing mass amounts of people.

So you condone what happened?

Legion of the Archangel wrote:

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:What France needs to do is teach refugees and Europeans about each other's culture and how each one lives so that they might understand each other.

Or just reject muslim immigration. It is more simple and less expensive.

This tbh. Or we could institute a tax on Islam to pay for their integration, which has irony bonus points.

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:

Kriga wrote:
We're not expecting them to throw it away, but again, how do you foster cohesion and unity? Do you let them have their own schools? If you think my proposition is cultural imperialism, then the alternative would be to segregate them.

We shouldn't change our schooling to meet their religious or cultural demands. That distorts unity and breeds tension. I am not saying we should outright convert them to Western values, but as a western, liberal, secular society, we should at least follow the same system we have before they came here, and not change it for their needs. If they come here, they should learn the language and understand the values their host country wants. Otherwise, it breeds nothing but tension and hatred on both sides.

Now that you've cleared it up I see what you're saying. The West could build religious schools though since it already does that.

How about no?

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:

The Alma Mater wrote:
For the record: for each incident against muslims there are still a few 100 incidents by muslims.
Viewed like that, there is no toxicity problem

Muslims don't kill innocent people

Muslims have killed innocent people.

this is what happens when you keep being attacked, You retaliate.(i'm not condoning what happened)

Ostroeuropa wrote:

Legion of the Archangel wrote:Or just reject muslim immigration. It is more simple and less expensive.

This tbh. Or we could institute a tax on Islam to pay for their integration, which has irony bonus points.

You don't tax Islam, you tax the people coming there. I think that could work, but after they establish themselves. And don't make the tax too high either, but enough to do something.

Napkiraly wrote:

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Now that you've cleared it up I see what you're saying. The West could build religious schools though since it already does that.

How about no?

Why not? The West already does it anyway.

Ostroeuropa wrote:

Legion of the Archangel wrote:Or just reject muslim immigration. It is more simple and less expensive.

This tbh. Or we could institute a tax on Islam to pay for their integration, which has irony bonus points.

-sigh-

Everyone keeps going on about the integration thing but I sincerely wonder how knowledgeable people actually are on the subject. Sure, there's been a few conflicts with migrants and immigrants over the years, but overwhelmingly the real problem has been second and third generation Muslims that are by all means native citizens of their respective countries. In particular, the Salafis.

Sure, the recent wave of Muslims coming to Europe holds some very conservative values. Islam tends to be a conservative religion, and I can see how that might be an issue for Western Europe and its very liberal values. But that hardly presents a reason why Muslims cannot integrate, much less a reason to deny them immigration or outright persecute them. They've been integrating just fine for hundreds of years, so unless you want them to flat out assimilate themselves into French, German, English or whatever culture is in question, allegations that their religion is incompatible with Western European values and that they cannot integrate are baseless. The problem lies with the Salafis, and with the Saudi-funded mosques and madrasas that Western European governments have ignored for decades. These are the ones who have been indoctrinated to hate the West, who become terrorists, and who are responsible for attacks like those in Paris and Brussels. Those are the Muslims you should be concerned about, not this rag-tag bunch of refugees.

Napkiraly wrote:

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Muslims don't kill innocent people

Muslims have killed innocent people.

Muslims haven't killed innocent people. People have killed innocent people.

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:

Napkiraly wrote:How about no?

Why not? The West already does it anyway.

Which is a problem as is, we don't need to exacerbate the problem.

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:

Napkiraly wrote:Muslims have killed innocent people.

Muslims haven't killed innocent people. People have killed innocent people.

And those people are Muslims.

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:

Napkiraly wrote:Muslims have killed innocent people.

Muslims haven't killed innocent people. People have killed innocent people.

Okay. White people have never killed innocent people.
Nor have German.
Nor have terrorists.
Nor have Crusaders.
Christians.
Men.
Women.
Psychopaths.

I mean we can continue playing semantics all if you want.

Fact is, there are people who identify as Muslims. Practice Islam more or less. And have killed people for various reasons. From religion to drug deals to domestic disputes.

Sanctissima wrote:

Ostroeuropa wrote:
This tbh. Or we could institute a tax on Islam to pay for their integration, which has irony bonus points.

-sigh-

Everyone keeps going on about the integration thing but I sincerely wonder how knowledgeable people actually are on the subject. Sure, there's been a few conflicts with migrants and immigrants over the years, but overwhelmingly the real problem has been second and third generation Muslims that are by all means native citizens of their respective countries. In particular, the Salafis.

Sure, the recent wave of Muslims coming to Europe holds some very conservative values. Islam tends to be a conservative religion, and I can see how that might be an issue for Western Europe and its very liberal values. But that hardly presents a reason why Muslims cannot integrate, much less a reason to deny them immigration or outright persecute them. They've been integrating just fine for hundreds of years, so unless you want them to flat out assimilate themselves into French, German, English or whatever culture is in question, allegations that their religion is incompatible with Western European values and that they cannot integrate are baseless. The problem lies with the Salafis, and with the Saudi-funded mosques and madrasas that Western European governments have ignored for decades. These are the ones who have been indoctrinated to hate the West, who become terrorists, and who are responsible for attacks like those in Paris and Brussels. Those are the Muslims you should be concerned about, not this rag-tag bunch of refugees.

As a Muslim myself, I wouldn't call Al-Islam a conservative religion, but nonetheless I agree with you on everything else.

Napkiraly wrote:

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Muslims haven't killed innocent people. People have killed innocent people.

Okay. White people have never killed innocent people.
Nor have German.
Nor have terrorists.
Nor have Crusaders.
Christians.
Men.
Women.
Psychopaths.

I mean we can continue playing semantics all if you want.

Fact is, there are people who identify as Muslims. Practice Islam more or less. And have killed people for various reasons. From religion to drug deals to domestic disputes.

If people are the problem then i advocate that we simply remove ourselves from the equation.

The balkens wrote:

Napkiraly wrote:Okay. White people have never killed innocent people.
Nor have German.
Nor have terrorists.
Nor have Crusaders.
Christians.
Men.
Women.
Psychopaths.

I mean we can continue playing semantics all if you want.

Fact is, there are people who identify as Muslims. Practice Islam more or less. And have killed people for various reasons. From religion to drug deals to domestic disputes.

If people are the problem then i advocate that we simply remove ourselves from the equation.

I've been campaigning for #RemoveHumanity2016, wanna donate to the cause?

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:

Sanctissima wrote:
-sigh-

Everyone keeps going on about the integration thing but I sincerely wonder how knowledgeable people actually are on the subject. Sure, there's been a few conflicts with migrants and immigrants over the years, but overwhelmingly the real problem has been second and third generation Muslims that are by all means native citizens of their respective countries. In particular, the Salafis.

Sure, the recent wave of Muslims coming to Europe holds some very conservative values. Islam tends to be a conservative religion, and I can see how that might be an issue for Western Europe and its very liberal values. But that hardly presents a reason why Muslims cannot integrate, much less a reason to deny them immigration or outright persecute them. They've been integrating just fine for hundreds of years, so unless you want them to flat out assimilate themselves into French, German, English or whatever culture is in question, allegations that their religion is incompatible with Western European values and that they cannot integrate are baseless. The problem lies with the Salafis, and with the Saudi-funded mosques and madrasas that Western European governments have ignored for decades. These are the ones who have been indoctrinated to hate the West, who become terrorists, and who are responsible for attacks like those in Paris and Brussels. Those are the Muslims you should be concerned about, not this rag-tag bunch of refugees.

As a Muslim myself, I wouldn't call Al-Islam a conservative religion, but nonetheless I agree with you on everything else.

By Western social liberal standards, it is incredibly conservative borderline reactionary.

Napkiraly wrote:

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:As a Muslim myself, I wouldn't call Al-Islam a conservative religion, but nonetheless I agree with you on everything else.

By Western social liberal standards, it is incredibly conservative borderline reactionary.

Which is why i view it with great suspicion.

The balkens wrote:

Napkiraly wrote:Okay. White people have never killed innocent people.
Nor have German.
Nor have terrorists.
Nor have Crusaders.
Christians.
Men.
Women.
Psychopaths.

I mean we can continue playing semantics all if you want.

Fact is, there are people who identify as Muslims. Practice Islam more or less. And have killed people for various reasons. From religion to drug deals to domestic disputes.

If people are the problem then i advocate that we simply remove ourselves from the equation.

Don't vote for Trump. Don't vote for Clinton. Vote for Nuclear Apocalypse.

Napkiraly wrote:

The balkens wrote:
If people are the problem then i advocate that we simply remove ourselves from the equation.

Don't vote for Trump. Don't vote for Clinton. Vote for Nuclear Apocalypse.

Vote Libertate Civis.

Napkiraly wrote:

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Muslims haven't killed innocent people. People have killed innocent people.

Okay. White people have never killed innocent people.
Nor have German.
Nor have terrorists.
Nor have Crusaders.
Christians.
Men.
Women.
Psychopaths.

I mean we can continue playing semantics all if you want.

Fact is, there are people who identify as Muslims. Practice Islam more or less. And have killed people for various reasons. From religion to drug deals to domestic disputes.

The reason I say that is because a Muslim is someone who abides by Al-Islam the best they can. So almost all of those examples you have are wrong except Christians. Christians have not killed people, crazy people who warp Christianity to their wants are the killers. Same for Muslims and any other religion, political ideology or anything on those lines.

Jochistan wrote:Sensible Muslims should emigrate before things get worse.

I agree.

The people in Corsica did nothing wrong, nobody died so it is okay. The fight to take back our homeland will involve many incidents like this and I 100% support the perpetrators.
EDIT: Before anyone reports me again, I said it's fine for stuff like this to happen if NOBODY DIES. I'm against it if people die.

Napkiraly wrote:.
Nor have Crusaders.

The crusades were a response to centuries of violence against Christians at the hands of the Saracens.