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What should be the next title of the Libertarian Discussion Thread?

Poll ended at Mon Mar 19, 2018 3:05 pm

Libertarian Discussion Thread II: Atlas Hugged
4
14%
Libertarian Discussion Thread II: Would You Kindly?
7
25%
Libertarian Discussion Thread II: Recreational Nukes
13
46%
Libertarian Discussion Thread II: A Man Chooses, A Slave Obeys
4
14%
Other option (say in thread)
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Total votes : 28

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The Liberated Territories
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Postby The Liberated Territories » Sun May 29, 2016 11:12 am

Skappola wrote:
The Liberated Territories wrote:
I don't get this distinction, between "classical liberal" and libertarian. Both classical liberalism (today, neoliberalism) and libertarianism are huge categories of thought, right-libertarianism converges on both. E.g. Nock, a classical liberal and geoist, was the first to call himself a libertarian in the modern sense in America. Later Milton Friedman and von Mises (?) adopted this label, although Mises continued to prefer the label of liberal. Classical liberalism doesn't exist, if it did, it'd be archaic.

Classical liberals in Europe, are today neoliberals (see: neo-(classical) liberals.) Classical liberalism no longer exists, but has morphed into many modern currents of thinking, libertarianism is one of them, neoliberalism is another, social liberalism as a third, liberal conservatism, and so on. The basics of classical liberalism is accepted by all of the above: 1.) respect for life, 2.) respect for liberty, 3.) respect for property to various degrees. It's the minutae that differentiate these schools of thought, otherwise they are all under the category of liberalism.

Fair enough, that probably isn't the best term for him. What would you use?


Liberal Conservative, although emphasis on the "liberal."
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Germanic Templars
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Postby Germanic Templars » Sun May 29, 2016 11:13 am

West Verrica wrote:
Germanic Templars wrote:So guys, guys. A few weeks ago I was looking up what a Libertarian is, and it turns out I align with a majority of what makes up a Libertarian is... So I might, most likely be a Libertarian... That aligns to the right, of course. :p

Also who is Weld?

Weld is a VP nominee for the LP and a former governor of Massachusetts. Controversial for not being libertarian enough. He is endorsed by the presidential candidate, and has lots of experience when compared to the others.


Eh, libertarian can swing either way though right?

I mean I assume they mean the more economic libertarian in terms of being on the right (If so please no laissez-faire economics, that would be rather bad, imo).

Skappola wrote:
Germanic Templars wrote:So guys, guys. A few weeks ago I was looking up what a Libertarian is, and it turns out I align with a majority of what makes up a Libertarian is... So I might, most likely be a Libertarian... That aligns to the right, of course. :p

Also who is Weld?

He's a former two-term Republican governor of Massachusetts who is running for Libertarian Vice Presidential candidate with Gary Johnson. Fiscally conservative and socially liberal, but his views on gun control and the fact that he only joined the Libertarian Party a couple weeks ago are drawing some ire from some Libertarians. He also endorsed John Kasich.

I personally don't mind - he's long since sworn off his former legislation on gun control, and he adds a lot of fundraising ability to the ticket. Plus, I personally like John Kasich.


Nvm, top question answered.

John Kasich I have a bit of mixed opinions especially when he first began his time as Ohio Governor (if I remember correctly he tried to get rid of unions for police and firefighters, or something along that line (then again I was probably 8 assuming he took office back in 2003)).

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The Liberated Territories
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Postby The Liberated Territories » Sun May 29, 2016 11:39 am

http://reason.com/blog/2016/05/29/gary- ... nomination

Once again the Reason commenters best articulate my thoughts (except for the one or two threatening to vote Trump.) I even left a comment or two, although you'll have to guess who I am. :P
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West Verrica
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Postby West Verrica » Sun May 29, 2016 11:41 am

post removed.
Last edited by West Verrica on Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:31 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Washington Resistance Army
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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Sun May 29, 2016 11:54 am

Skappola wrote:Gary Johnson won the primary!


The Johnson has been embraced! Onto victory!
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Noxtrem
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Postby Noxtrem » Sun May 29, 2016 12:24 pm

I just can't get over some of Johnson's policy on Business. He thinks that businesses shouldn't be able to turn down people. Which rings clear to me as distinctly "un-libertarian" considering how it is generally accepted in libertarian politics that businesses have the right to turn down customers, because nobody is entitled to your products. But I also understand that libertarianism is a diverse political idea with many variations and deviations. I also understand that Johnson is trying to more moderate, in order to appeal to other audiences. But because of policies like that, I don't think Johnson is libertarian enough to be our candidate. I personally could never approve of Weld as our VP, but it looks like that won't be mich of a problem given that he has dropped out. Your opinions?
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The Liberated Territories
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Postby The Liberated Territories » Sun May 29, 2016 12:28 pm

Noxtrem wrote:I just can't get over some of Johnson's policy on Business. He thinks that businesses shouldn't be able to turn down people. Which rings clear to me as distinctly "un-libertarian" considering how it is generally accepted in libertarian politics that businesses have the right to turn down customers, because nobody is entitled to your products. But I also understand that libertarianism is a diverse political idea with many variations and deviations. I also understand that Johnson is trying to more moderate, in order to appeal to other audiences. But because of policies like that, I don't think Johnson is libertarian enough to be our candidate. I personally could never approve of Weld as our VP, but it looks like that won't be mich of a problem given that he has dropped out. Your opinions?


I formulated a response a while ago that could justify some intervention, but only for large corporations. If large corporations are creatures of the government, then regulation could be justified, since it would be the government essentially regulating itself, for we already require government to be non-discriminatory. On the other hand, what regulation doesn't primarily benefit large corporations? If a bill like this would be passed, it would not simply harm large corporations, but also small ones.

However it is true that the vast majority of bakers are not corporations.
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West Verrica
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Postby West Verrica » Sun May 29, 2016 12:29 pm

post removed.
Last edited by West Verrica on Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The Liberated Territories
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Postby The Liberated Territories » Sun May 29, 2016 12:33 pm

Money's on Coley.
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Wolfmanne2
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Postby Wolfmanne2 » Sun May 29, 2016 12:35 pm

West Verrica wrote:
Noxtrem wrote:I just can't get over some of Johnson's policy on Business. He thinks that businesses shouldn't be able to turn down people. Which rings clear to me as distinctly "un-libertarian" considering how it is generally accepted in libertarian politics that businesses have the right to turn down customers, because nobody is entitled to your products. But I also understand that libertarianism is a diverse political idea with many variations and deviations. I also understand that Johnson is trying to more moderate, in order to appeal to other audiences. But because of policies like that, I don't think Johnson is libertarian enough to be our candidate. I personally could never approve of Weld as our VP, but it looks like that won't be much of a problem given that he has dropped out. Your opinions?

I 100% agree with you on Johnson, he's ideologically barely ok imo. Are you sure Weld drop out? I was getting coffee but would be completely shocked if he left.

Ideologically purity ain't great you know. The Labour Party in my country did that for years in the 80s and is doing that right now. Look where that's getting us. Fundamentally, you have to be pragmatic to have hell's arse of getting anywhere.
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Noxtrem
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Postby Noxtrem » Sun May 29, 2016 12:39 pm

West Verrica wrote:
Noxtrem wrote:I just can't get over some of Johnson's policy on Business. He thinks that businesses shouldn't be able to turn down people. Which rings clear to me as distinctly "un-libertarian" considering how it is generally accepted in libertarian politics that businesses have the right to turn down customers, because nobody is entitled to your products. But I also understand that libertarianism is a diverse political idea with many variations and deviations. I also understand that Johnson is trying to more moderate, in order to appeal to other audiences. But because of policies like that, I don't think Johnson is libertarian enough to be our candidate. I personally could never approve of Weld as our VP, but it looks like that won't be much of a problem given that he has dropped out. Your opinions?

I 100% agree with you on Johnson, he's ideologically barely ok imo. Are you sure Weld drop out? I was getting coffee but would be completely shocked if he left.

Yeah, I just saw a News Headline for it.
The Liberated Territories wrote:
Noxtrem wrote:I just can't get over some of Johnson's policy on Business. He thinks that businesses shouldn't be able to turn down people. Which rings clear to me as distinctly "un-libertarian" considering how it is generally accepted in libertarian politics that businesses have the right to turn down customers, because nobody is entitled to your products. But I also understand that libertarianism is a diverse political idea with many variations and deviations. I also understand that Johnson is trying to more moderate, in order to appeal to other audiences. But because of policies like that, I don't think Johnson is libertarian enough to be our candidate. I personally could never approve of Weld as our VP, but it looks like that won't be mich of a problem given that he has dropped out. Your opinions?


I formulated a response a while ago that could justify some intervention, but only for large corporations. If large corporations are creatures of the government, then regulation could be justified, since it would be the government essentially regulating itself, for we already require government to be non-discriminatory. On the other hand, what regulation doesn't primarily benefit large corporations? If a bill like this would be passed, it would not simply harm large corporations, but also small ones.

However it is true that the vast majority of bakers are not corporations.


I think that the government should just stay out of it, (I'm referring to the whole "Jewish bakers forced to make a nazi cake" issue) if a baker doesn't want to make someone a cake because of religious reasons. Then people will get made at him, groups of people and community members will likely protest his business. If this happens, he loses business and will either change his policy, or go out of business. Society will fix the issue on their own if you let them.

Sorry for editing this post so much. I made a bunch of formatting errors.
Last edited by Noxtrem on Sun May 29, 2016 12:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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West Verrica
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Postby West Verrica » Sun May 29, 2016 12:40 pm

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Skappola
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Postby Skappola » Sun May 29, 2016 12:41 pm

Noxtrem wrote:I just can't get over some of Johnson's policy on Business. He thinks that businesses shouldn't be able to turn down people. Which rings clear to me as distinctly "un-libertarian" considering how it is generally accepted in libertarian politics that businesses have the right to turn down customers, because nobody is entitled to your products. But I also understand that libertarianism is a diverse political idea with many variations and deviations. I also understand that Johnson is trying to more moderate, in order to appeal to other audiences. But because of policies like that, I don't think Johnson is libertarian enough to be our candidate. I personally could never approve of Weld as our VP, but it looks like that won't be mich of a problem given that he has dropped out. Your opinions?

I mean, the issue here is just that he supports the 1964 civil rights act- opposing the nazi cake thing would mean wanting to repeal the civil rights act. The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of voters support the civil rights act, and to oppose it would be electoral suicide.
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Washington Resistance Army
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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Sun May 29, 2016 12:43 pm

At least Petersen wasn't a troll and endorsed Johnson. Any word on the VP yet?
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Noxtrem
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Postby Noxtrem » Sun May 29, 2016 12:44 pm

Skappola wrote:
Noxtrem wrote:I just can't get over some of Johnson's policy on Business. He thinks that businesses shouldn't be able to turn down people. Which rings clear to me as distinctly "un-libertarian" considering how it is generally accepted in libertarian politics that businesses have the right to turn down customers, because nobody is entitled to your products. But I also understand that libertarianism is a diverse political idea with many variations and deviations. I also understand that Johnson is trying to more moderate, in order to appeal to other audiences. But because of policies like that, I don't think Johnson is libertarian enough to be our candidate. I personally could never approve of Weld as our VP, but it looks like that won't be mich of a problem given that he has dropped out. Your opinions?

I mean, the issue here is just that he supports the 1964 civil rights act- opposing the nazi cake thing would mean wanting to repeal the civil rights act. The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of voters support the civil rights act, and to oppose it would be electoral suicide.
I would have to agree with that. It probably would kill his campaign. But I'll tell you this, he will likely lose some of his support base from the Libertarian party over this.
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West Verrica
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Postby West Verrica » Sun May 29, 2016 12:44 pm

post removed.
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West Verrica
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Postby West Verrica » Sun May 29, 2016 12:45 pm

post removed.
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Noxtrem
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Postby Noxtrem » Sun May 29, 2016 12:48 pm

West Verrica wrote:
Noxtrem wrote: I would have to agree with that. It probably would kill his campaign. But I'll tell you this, he will likely lose some of his support base from the Libertarian party over this.

I don't think their is anywhere else for them to go. Either they vote for him or they don't vote.

I would also agree with this statement. I don't like Johnson, but I will support the Libertarian Party. At this point, I think we have a viable chance this year, given how the bulk of voters are ao massively dissatisfied with Truml and Hillary.
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Noxtrem
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Postby Noxtrem » Sun May 29, 2016 12:49 pm

Noxtrem wrote:
West Verrica wrote:I don't think their is anywhere else for them to go. Either they vote for him or they don't vote.

I would also agree with this statement. I don't like Johnson, but I will support the Libertarian Party. At this point, I think we have a viable chance this year, given how the bulk of voters are ao massively dissatisfied with Truml and Hillary.

Speaking of Trump https://www.boston.com/news/politics/2016/05/29/response-kristallnacht-comparison
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West Verrica
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Postby West Verrica » Sun May 29, 2016 12:56 pm

post removed.
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Washington Resistance Army
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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Sun May 29, 2016 12:58 pm

West Verrica wrote:

oooo free publicity :D


Now we just need Trump to comment on Feldman calling him an asshole, everyone will flock to us :lol:
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Noxtrem
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Postby Noxtrem » Sun May 29, 2016 1:02 pm

West Verrica wrote:

oooo free publicity :D

Yeah. I always find it ironic when trump prances around acting victorious after insulting someone. He actually doesn't realise that he just gave them free publicity.
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
West Verrica wrote:oooo free publicity :D


Now we just need Trump to comment on Feldman calling him an asshole, everyone will flock to us :lol:

Lol, if only.
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USS Monitor
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Postby USS Monitor » Sun May 29, 2016 1:03 pm

Noxtrem wrote:I'm a libertarian, and I read quite a bit about my ideology, I happen to find Bastiat, David Boaz, and Ayn Rand to be great authors to read when it comes to Libertarianism and Free Market Policy. Do you guys have preferred authors for our ideology, or recommend novels?

When it comes to the presidential election, I am not willing to support anyone who has already been in a government office on a state or federal level. I would rather see McAfee or Petersen than I would Johnson. Besides, Johnson is at best a "Republican-lite".


Petersen is ideologically closer to the Republicans than Johnson is, by a wide margin, so it's pretty stupid to complain about Johnson being "Republican-lite" and then turn around and support Petersen.
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Newport 100
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Postby Newport 100 » Sun May 29, 2016 1:07 pm

Petersen makes me sad and angry and Gary Johnson is meh. I really was hoping for McAfee. I think his aesthetic alone would be good to insert into a presidential campaign. No frills, just cocaine and hookers. God bless america
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Washington Resistance Army
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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Sun May 29, 2016 1:17 pm

Newport 100 wrote:Petersen makes me sad and angry and Gary Johnson is meh. I really was hoping for McAfee. I think his aesthetic alone would be good to insert into a presidential campaign. No frills, just cocaine and hookers. God bless america


McAfee was the good kind of crazy but he probably would have gotten nothing but bad press, assuming he got any coverage at all.
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