Libertarian Discussion Thread

[Fanosolia]

I think really, the only way a Libertarian-lite gets in is if they run either in the Democratic or Republican Party. Of course, that would be reinforcing the two-party system but, it might the only way to get our ideas across.

A libertarian posing as a Democrat would get lynched by the progressives in an instant.

I don't know, Mike Gravel was going okay until he supposedly blew it in a debate.

[The Liberated Territories]

A libertarian posing as a Democrat would get lynched by the progressives in an instant.

I don't know, Mike Gravel was going okay until he supposedly blew it in a debate.

Supporting universal healthcare is probably what made him unpopular in the LP, despite being a governor. Even a controversial belief amongst US liberals as most supported non-universal Obamacare (until it exploded, ofc.)

[Fanosolia]

I don't know, Mike Gravel was going okay until he supposedly blew it in a debate.

Supporting universal healthcare is probably what made him unpopular in the LP, despite being a governor. Even a controversial belief amongst US liberals as most supported non-universal Obamacare (until it exploded, ofc.)

Goes to show what I know about Obama care and American liberals . I would have assumed it more had to do with a distrust of voucher systems more than not supporting (single payer) Universal Healthcare. I say with my high taxes.

[USS Monitor]

Supporting universal healthcare is probably what made him unpopular in the LP, despite being a governor. Even a controversial belief amongst US liberals as most supported non-universal Obamacare (until it exploded, ofc.)

Goes to show what I know about Obama care and American liberals . I would have assumed it more had to do with a distrust of voucher systems more than not supporting (single payer) Universal Healthcare. I say with my high taxes.

I would much rather have single-payer. Obamacare misses the best parts of a market system (market forces holding prices down) but doesn't have the advantages of a proper socialized system (universal coverage). It just turned into such a muddled mess because of Congress' inability to cooperate.

[Telconi]

Goes to show what I know about Obama care and American liberals . I would have assumed it more had to do with a distrust of voucher systems more than not supporting (single payer) Universal Healthcare. I say with my high taxes.

I would much rather have single-payer. Obamacare misses the best parts of a market system (market forces holding prices down) but doesn't have the advantages of a proper socialized system (universal coverage). It just turned into such a muddled mess because of Congress' inability to cooperate.

Basically, Obamacare takes the worst aspects of each system and mashes them together.

[Elwher]

I'm not sure where you are going with the gun ownership thing, could you please explain?

I have no problem with grassroots action against bigotry, that's simply allowing those on the other side of the transaction to express their opinions too. Personally, if I am buying or selling, I'm simply going to look for the best deal possible and I don't care if I am dealing with a bigot, a Nazi, or even a liberal.

Yeah I did not explain that at all, so my bad . Mostly it stems from the fact that the state shouldn't disarm, or restrict the trade of arms based (at least sometimes) on the second amendment, but yet a private business owner can, seems strange to me. Especially when some guns right activists have pointed out how having protection for the vulnerable groups in society could be a plus. Maybe I'm misinterpreting in the way how the right to bare arms is a negative right, but there's my confusion on that.

Now I'll be fair and say that there are more "inclusive," or more realistically, more "amoral" (don't worry there are quotations for a reason) now than ever, so maybe the fear that there might be no place for a particular individual can't pay for a good, like something to protect them, is less of an issue. Maybe I've grown cynical as the have days gone by, and I'm just not sure if I can believe that. In truth, grassroots and "non-politics" movements give hope that intervention is less and less necessary, and I rather support doing more than praying the government does something right for once than not, but I am far from "ideologically pure".

Two related comments on the State vs private citizen restrictions.

First, the Constitution was, in my opinion at least, to restrict the powers of the government, not the citizens. There are many things that the government should not be allowed to do that an individual should be permitted.

This leads to my second point. If a particular gunseller (or any other businessman) declines to sell to you on his own, there is no reason why you cannot go to another seller and deal with him. In fact, that is the biggest argument against discrimination in business, that it is bad for business to exclude a group of people from being potential customers. If, however, the government says that you cannot buy a particular good or service, then if you are a law abiding citizen it is much more difficult for you to deal with a different government.

I agree that trusting the people to do things right rather than relying on the government to force the right result is preferable, if only because the people are more likely to look at individual circumstances rather than enforcing a legalistic, one size fits all solution.

[The Liberated Territories]

Illinois senator proposes Ranked Choice Voting

Again, I love how people are suddenly talking about reforming the voting system, but RCV is the worst out of all the systems they can imagine. It will remove the vote splitting consequence for voting third party, but I think RCV might further marginalize third parties as it still keeps the two party system, just without the third parties getting in the way.

[Northern Davincia]

Illinois senator proposes Ranked Choice Voting

Again, I love how people are suddenly talking about reforming the voting system, but RCV is the worst out of all the systems they can imagine. It will remove the vote splitting consequence for voting third party, but I think RCV might further marginalize third parties as it still keeps the two party system, just without the third parties getting in the way.

It's a marginal improvement.

[Idzequitch]

Illinois senator proposes Ranked Choice Voting

Again, I love how people are suddenly talking about reforming the voting system, but RCV is the worst out of all the systems they can imagine. It will remove the vote splitting consequence for voting third party, but I think RCV might further marginalize third parties as it still keeps the two party system, just without the third parties getting in the way.

Plus, we can barely get people out to vote once every two years. The voting in several rounds strikes me as impractical.

[Fanosolia]

Illinois senator proposes Ranked Choice Voting

Again, I love how people are suddenly talking about reforming the voting system, but RCV is the worst out of all the systems they can imagine. It will remove the vote splitting consequence for voting third party, but I think RCV might further marginalize third parties as it still keeps the two party system, just without the third parties getting in the way.

They should at least have STV for the General Assembly. Sure the voting district lines would have to be redrawn so include more than rep per district, but at least there's then a better chance to have some third parties in office.

[Northern Davincia]

Are most of the libertarians here of the Austrian School? I don't think I've seen many Chicago-types.

[Great Minarchistan]

Are most of the libertarians here of the Austrian School? I don't think I've seen many Chicago-types.

Chicago School is neoliberal AFAIK.

[Northern Davincia]

Are most of the libertarians here of the Austrian School? I don't think I've seen many Chicago-types.

Chicago School is neoliberal AFAIK.

Hayek and Friedman are pretty based though.

[The Liberated Territories]

Are most of the libertarians here of the Austrian School? I don't think I've seen many Chicago-types.

Economist Milton Friedman was Chicago School and libertarian, and economist Bryan Caplan is Neoclassical. Although yes, Austrian economics has a lot of influence.

You'll probably never find a Keynesian libertarian, since Keynesian economics prescribes state intervention to every problem.

[Idzequitch]

Are most of the libertarians here of the Austrian School? I don't think I've seen many Chicago-types.

I don't even know the difference. Let people live as they see fit (within reason), be fiscally responsible, and limit government meddling. I'm whatever school of thought that is.

[Northern Davincia]

Are most of the libertarians here of the Austrian School? I don't think I've seen many Chicago-types.

Economist Milton Friedman was Chicago School and libertarian, and economist Bryan Caplan is Neoclassical. Although yes, Austrian economics has a lot of influence.

You'll probably never find a Keynesian libertarian, since Keynesian economics prescribes state intervention to every problem.

I was referring to this thread, but you are certainly correct.

[Community Values]

Are most of the libertarians here of the Austrian School? I don't think I've seen many Chicago-types.

Chicago is based af.

As much as I like Mises, Friedman is so much better.

[Northern Davincia]

Are most of the libertarians here of the Austrian School? I don't think I've seen many Chicago-types.

Chicago is based af.

As much as I like Mises, Friedman is so much better.

Friedman has the benefit of his ideas actually being tested on a wide scale (Chile). It's hard to say whether or not Mises carries the same impact beyond obvious influence.

[Great Minarchistan]

While I disagree with half things Friedman say (e.g. helicopter money*), the another half is brilliant (e.g. voucher system)

* He didn't defend hell-icopter money but eh, he inspired people to work on it.

[Fanosolia]

Economist Milton Friedman was Chicago School and libertarian, and economist Bryan Caplan is Neoclassical. Although yes, Austrian economics has a lot of influence.

You'll probably never find a Keynesian libertarian, since Keynesian economics prescribes state intervention to every problem.

I was referring to this thread, but you are certainly correct.

If it's any consolation, I tend to agree with Friedman and Hayek the most when it comes to libertarians. Though the problem with me attaching myself to school of economic thought is a lack of economic study in the first place... that was tough to admit...

While I disagree with half things Friedman say (e.g. helicopter money*), the another half is brilliant (e.g. voucher system)

* He didn't defend hell-icopter money but eh, he inspired people to work on it.

What's helicopter money?

[Great Minarchistan]

What's helicopter money?

Some links that might explain:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helicopter_money
http://www.investopedia.com/articles/ma ... -money.asp

[The Liberated Territories]

The problem with just giving people money is that it usually comes from two sources:

1.) Theft via inflation
2.) Theft via taxation from people who have legitimately earned that money

[Great Minarchistan]

The problem with just giving people money is that it usually comes from two sources:

1.) Theft via inflation
2.) Theft via taxation from people who have legitimately earned that money

1.) ECB isn't giving a shit to inflation o/
2.) They aren't giving a shit to this too

So welp, if you see Mario Draghi dropping pink paper out of a helicopter, it's just another weird ECB maneuver.

[The Liberated Territories]

The problem with just giving people money is that it usually comes from two sources:

1.) Theft via inflation
2.) Theft via taxation from people who have legitimately earned that money

1.) ECB isn't giving a shit to inflation o/
2.) They aren't giving a shit to this too

So welp, if you see Mario Draghi dropping pink paper out of a helicopter, it's just another weird ECB maneuver.

"Even though these policies failed in Greece, it certainly can't go wrong anywhere else!" —EBC

[Isyrannaea]

Are most of the libertarians here of the Austrian School? I don't think I've seen many Chicago-types.

Mostly, although Virginia School of Economics seems okay.