Libertarian Discussion Thread

[Albrenia]

I mean, if you want people who end up on welfare to be locked into a spiral which keeps them on it when they'd otherwise find new employment, ok?

[Nulla Bellum]

They can't get jobs reviewing welfare applications for fraud, waste, and abuse?

Don't welfare fraud programs cost the government more than they save?
Also, I thought you'd be against government excess, and that's practically the definition of it.

Did you want to skip to the part where we decide if I'm responsible for everyone's welfare or everyone is responsible for mine? I know what side of that I want to be on.

[Tekeristan]

Don't welfare fraud programs cost the government more than they save?
Also, I thought you'd be against government excess, and that's practically the definition of it.

Did you want to skip to the part where we decide if I'm responsible for everyone's welfare or everyone is responsible for mine? I know what side of that I want to be on.

Ideally my beliefs with prison and welfare are and should be the same : to put themselves out of business.

[Nulla Bellum]

I mean, if you want people who end up on welfare to be locked into a spiral which keeps them on it when they'd otherwise find new employment, ok?

I want there to be no welfare for them to end up on. Hell, even a merciless asshole like myself might put a coin in their cup if I hadn't already had my paycheck gouged by taxes.

[Albrenia]

I mean, if you want people who end up on welfare to be locked into a spiral which keeps them on it when they'd otherwise find new employment, ok?

I want there to be no welfare for them to end up on. Hell, even a merciless asshole like myself might put a coin in their cup if I hadn't already had my paycheck gouged by taxes.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that then.

[Irona]

I mean, if you want people who end up on welfare to be locked into a spiral which keeps them on it when they'd otherwise find new employment, ok?

I want there to be no welfare for them to end up on. Hell, even a merciless asshole like myself might put a coin in their cup if I hadn't already had my paycheck gouged by taxes.

How does that benefit society? You'd just end up with mass poverty and no way out of it. Plus you'd kill entrepreneurship by making taking a risk a legitimate threat to the survival of the risk taker and their family.

[Tekeristan]

I want there to be no welfare for them to end up on. Hell, even a merciless asshole like myself might put a coin in their cup if I hadn't already had my paycheck gouged by taxes.

How does that benefit society? You'd just end up with mass poverty and no way out of it. Plus you'd kill entrepreneurship by making taking a risk a legitimate threat to the survival of the risk taker and their family.

Can't quit your job when you don't make enough money to sustain yourself to switch to a new one. :>

[Irona]

How does that benefit society? You'd just end up with mass poverty and no way out of it. Plus you'd kill entrepreneurship by making taking a risk a legitimate threat to the survival of the risk taker and their family.

Can't quit your job when you don't make enough money to sustain yourself to switch to a new one. :>

Exactly.

Who on earth is going to 'take a chance' and set up their own business if it's failure means seriously risking the survival of themselves and their dependants.

[Northern Davincia]

I want there to be no welfare for them to end up on. Hell, even a merciless asshole like myself might put a coin in their cup if I hadn't already had my paycheck gouged by taxes.

How does that benefit society? You'd just end up with mass poverty and no way out of it. Plus you'd kill entrepreneurship by making taking a risk a legitimate threat to the survival of the risk taker and their family.

Eliminate the minimum wage and mass-poverty would disappear on account of people having jobs.

[Tekeristan]

How does that benefit society? You'd just end up with mass poverty and no way out of it. Plus you'd kill entrepreneurship by making taking a risk a legitimate threat to the survival of the risk taker and their family.

Eliminate the minimum wage and mass-poverty would disappear on account of people having jobs.

Yea, if we just hire everyone at 5 cents, that works.

Wait.. You mean we don't need 30 people to flip burgers at 1 joint?

Nevermind the deflationary spiral between now and then..

[Northern Davincia]

Eliminate the minimum wage and mass-poverty would disappear on account of people having jobs.

Yea, if we just hire everyone at 5 cents, that works.

Wait.. You mean we don't need 30 people to flip burgers at 1 joint?

Nevermind the deflationary spiral between now and then..

I think the homeless folk of America would rather be getting five cents than zero. Besides, prices would collapse in order for people to actually buy things.

[Tekeristan]

Yea, if we just hire everyone at 5 cents, that works.

Wait.. You mean we don't need 30 people to flip burgers at 1 joint?

Nevermind the deflationary spiral between now and then..

I think the homeless folk of America would rather be getting five cents than zero. Besides, prices would collapse in order for people to actually buy things.

Of course, if we ignore the economic consequences of such a massive economic spiral between now and then.

[Albrenia]

Yea, if we just hire everyone at 5 cents, that works.

Wait.. You mean we don't need 30 people to flip burgers at 1 joint?

Nevermind the deflationary spiral between now and then..

I think the homeless folk of America would rather be getting five cents than zero. Besides, prices would collapse in order for people to actually buy things.

Poverty is still very possible without a minimum wage. Why would prices collapse, though?

[Community Values]

What's the difference between the NAP and the Social Contract?

[Irona]

What's the difference between the NAP and the Social Contract?

The Social Contract is between the people and state, both of which have different rights and duties. In contrast the NAP is between the people themselves, and everyone promises to do the same.

[The Parkus Empire]

What's the difference between the NAP and the Social Contract?

One doesn't real and the other is fictional.

[The Parkus Empire]

I think the homeless folk of America would rather be getting five cents than zero.

It wouldn't be five cents an hour because no one would work for that, even the homeless. Begging pays more than that.

[The Liberated Territories]

What's the difference between the NAP and the Social Contract?

One doesn't real and the other is fictional.

Still less of a spook than God, morality, or any of that hufflepuff.

Spooky Scary Skeleton Remix

[The Parkus Empire]

One doesn't real and the other is fictional.

Still less of a spook than God, morality, or any of that hufflepuff.

Spooky Scary Skeleton Remix

All the pleasing illusions which made power gentle and obedience liberal, which harmonized the different shades of life, and which, by a bland assimilation, incorporated into politics the sentiments which beautify and soften private society, are to be dissolved by this new conquering empire of light and reason. All the decent drapery of life is to be rudely torn off. All the super-added ideas, furnished from the wardrobe of a moral imagination, which the heart owns and the understanding ratifies as necessary to cover the defects of our naked, shivering nature, and to raise it to dignity in our own estimation, are to be exploded as a ridiculous, absurd, and antiquated fashion.

On this scheme of things, a king is but a man, a queen is but a woman; a woman is but an animal, and an animal not of the highest order. All homage paid to the sex in general as such, and without distinct views, is to be regarded as romance and folly. Regicide, and parricide, and sacrilege are but fictions of superstition, corrupting jurisprudence by destroying its simplicity. The murder of a king, or a queen, or a bishop, or a father are only common homicide; and if the people are by any chance or in any way gainers by it, a sort of homicide much the most pardonable, and into which we ought not to make too severe a scrutiny.

On the scheme of this barbarous philosophy, which is the offspring of cold hearts and muddy understandings, and which is as void of solid wisdom as it is destitute of all taste and elegance, laws are to be supported only by their own terrors and by the concern which each individual may find in them from his own private speculations or can spare to them from his own private interests.

[T]he age of chivalry is gone. That of sophisters, economists; and calculators has succeeded; and the glory of Europe is extinguished forever.

-Edmund Burke

[Northern Davincia]

One doesn't real and the other is fictional.

Still less of a spook than God, morality, or any of that hufflepuff.

Spooky Scary Skeleton Remix

"Where do natural rights come from, fam?"
"They evolved by accident!"

[Taihei Tengoku]

The lack of a minimum wage is a reality in market fundamentalist hellholes like uh Denmark

[Albrenia]

Still less of a spook than God, morality, or any of that hufflepuff.

Spooky Scary Skeleton Remix

"Where do natural rights come from, fam?"
"They evolved by accident!"

I know it's just a joke, but 'by accident' and 'evolved' don't go together.

[Northern Davincia]

The lack of a minimum wage is a reality in market fundamentalist hellholes like uh Denmark

Denmark puts the rest of Europe to shame regularly.

"Where do natural rights come from, fam?"
"They evolved by accident!"

I know it's just a joke, but 'by accident' and 'evolved' don't go together.

[The Liberated Territories]

Still less of a spook than God, morality, or any of that hufflepuff.

Spooky Scary Skeleton Remix

"Where do natural rights come from, fam?"
"They evolved by accident!"

tbh the whole universe is an accident. For me, rights are synonymous with man's preexisting condition, made manifest by the power of guns. Naturalness does not play into it. The same "right" that allows a tyrant to take away rights can also be used to protect them.

The lack of a minimum wage is a reality in market fundamentalist hellholes like uh Denmark

And Swizterland

"but muh unions" union membership in Switzerland isn't spectacular number wise

[Nordengrund]

What are your thoughts on school choice?

I'm mixed about it, but I'm not adversed to the idea as I once was. I think the main qualm, and one I find to be a decent point, is that by having the government provide vouchers and people often choose to use them to fund and pay form religious schools, and some point that out as a violation of the Establishment Clause and that the government and religion are intermingling with each other.