BIG TEACHER IS WATCHING YOU

[Serrland]

Only if the people were aware this was happening. Listening in to a conversation like that is wire-tapping and requires a warrant. It's completely unacceptable for a school to secretly monitor communication like that.

No, it's not... That is like claiming a prison listening in on prisoner telephone conversations is wiretapping... It is not... the communication is occurring ON government property, there is no valid expectation of privacy...

They still shouldn't be allowed to secretly access files.

Yes, they should... it is their property, and they are liable for its use and its contents... As stated, students/teachers using the laptops have no reasonable expectation of privacy, as the laptops are government property...

As stated before, the line they crossed was taking images of inside somone elses property (someones house, with the webcam)... Nothing on the laptop or accessed by the laptop (ie, viewing files, accessing internet cache/history, monitoring/recording keystrokes) can be reasonably construed as "private" as it is occurring on government property, and therefore their expectation of privacy is UNreasonable... The laptop is not authorized for private use outside the scope of school work...

Unless you're privy to the user agreement, I'm going to call "Source?" on the bolded/underlined bit

[Cradled Squads]

As possible after receiving a 'free' computer. THAT should take care of any 'preset' programming.

[Birnadia]

I reckon it was a way for technologically naive teachers to find out where all the good porn is at nowadays.

If this forum had a a reputation system, I'd add some to you after that post.

[Cradled Squads]

Only if the people were aware this was happening. Listening in to a conversation like that is wire-tapping and requires a warrant. It's completely unacceptable for a school to secretly monitor communication like that.

No, it's not... That is like claiming a prison listening in on prisoner telephone conversations is wiretapping... It is not... the communication is occurring ON government property, there is no valid expectation of privacy...

They still shouldn't be allowed to secretly access files.

Yes, they should... it is their property, and they are liable for its use and its contents... As stated, students/teachers using the laptops have no reasonable expectation of privacy, as the laptops are government property...

As stated before, the line they crossed was taking images of inside somone elses property (someones house, with the webcam)... Nothing on the laptop or accessed by the laptop (ie, viewing files, accessing internet cache/history, monitoring/recording keystrokes) can be reasonably construed as "private" as it is occurring on government property, and therefore their expectation of privacy is UNreasonable... The laptop is not authorized for private use outside the scope of school work...

Unless you're privy to the user agreement, I'm going to call "Source?" on the bolded/underlined bit

Observations in a private home, which school officials HAVE NO LEGAL RIGHT TO ENTER...that's an altogether different matter. A private home and what occurs there, frankly is none of the school's business.

[Tekania]

The laptop is not authorized for private use outside the scope of school work...

Unless you're privy to the user agreement, I'm going to call "Source?" on the bolded/underlined bit

Ok....

The laptop computers that will be issued to all Lower Merion and Harriton students are the property of Lower Merion School District. Students are responsible for the appropriate use of these laptops both at school and at home. The laptops are for the use of students for educational purposes.....

Also, to quote from the Acceptible Use Guidelines:

...students should know that email is not guaranteed to be private.

[Czardas]

This doesn't surprise me in the slightest, considering what I know about the education system in America.

---

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/homepage/84715297.html?cmpid=15585797

You know, I really have to wonder what the thought process was here for the school district to think this is a good idea.

Most likely something along the lines of *fap fap fap*.

Only if the people were aware this was happening. Listening in to a conversation like that is wire-tapping and requires a warrant. It's completely unacceptable for a school to secretly monitor communication like that.

It's well established in the USA that schools are free to curtail any or all of their students' constitutional rights while the students are under school supervision or using school property. (For instance, the Supreme Court has established that seizure and search of students' effects without a warrant by school administrators is perfectly acceptable, and likewise that no right to free speech exists inside schools.) The dispute here is because the school overstepped its authority by monitoring stuff happening away from school property, and thus when the students and parents had a reasonable expectation of their constitutional rights being upheld. Which, I suspect, was the whole point of the use of that software in the first place.

[Serrland]

The laptop is not authorized for private use outside the scope of school work...

Unless you're privy to the user agreement, I'm going to call "Source?" on the bolded/underlined bit

Ok....

The laptop computers that will be issued to all Lower Merion and Harriton students are the property of Lower Merion School District. Students are responsible for the appropriate use of these laptops both at school and at home. The laptops are for the use of students for educational purposes.....

Also, to quote from the Acceptible Use Guidelines:

...students should know that email is not guaranteed to be private.

But it does not say for solely educational purposes. Which, correct me if I'm wrong, seems to be what you were implying in the originally quoted post.

[Tekania]

But it does not say for solely educational purposes. Which, correct me if I'm wrong, seems to be what you were implying in the originally quoted post.

They are giving students a SCHOOL LAPTOP for EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES.... No where do they state its for non education purposes, and they state there is no expectation of privacy in communication on the system...The laptop is SCHOOL PROPERTY... do you understand this? SCHOOL PROPERTY.... S-C-H-O-O-L P-R-O-P-E-R-T-Y that which occurs on the laptop OCCURS ON SCHOOL PROPERTY... What I find sad is I have to spell this out to you...
S
C
H
O
O
L

P
R
O
P
E
R
T
Y

People like you are why our kids keep getting dumber...

[Rhodmhire]

People like you are why our kids keep getting dumber...

Adhering to primitive means of distributing information from a teacher to a class of students such as textbooks, while evading utilization of Wikipedia as fervently as possible, is why our kids keep getting dumber.

[Rhodmhire]

I reckon it was a way for technologically naive teachers to find out where all the good porn is at nowadays.

...The hell with public executions, I want to revive Führer Adolf Hitler and get some concentration camps a goin'...

[Tekania]

People like you are why our kids keep getting dumber...

Adhering to primitive means of distributing information from a teacher to a class of students such as textbooks, while evading utilization of Wikipedia as fervently as possible, is why our kids keep getting dumber.

....and since the ultimate direction that person is proposing/setting precedence for is a removal of computers from students use and thus evade Wiki and return to out-dated texbooks........

[Cradled Squads]

But it does not say for solely educational purposes. Which, correct me if I'm wrong, seems to be what you were implying in the originally quoted post.

They are giving students a SCHOOL LAPTOP for EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES.... No where do they state its for non education purposes, and they state there is no expectation of privacy in communication on the system...The laptop is SCHOOL PROPERTY... do you understand this? SCHOOL PROPERTY.... S-C-H-O-O-L P-R-O-P-E-R-T-Y that which occurs on the laptop OCCURS ON SCHOOL PROPERTY... What I find sad is I have to spell this out to you...
S
C
H
O
O
L

P
R
O
P
E
R
T
Y

People like you are why our kids keep getting dumber...

Is reinstall the OS. Though the school had NO RIGHT to invade the private home with the webcam...that was totally beyond the pale.

[Bottle]

But it does not say for solely educational purposes. Which, correct me if I'm wrong, seems to be what you were implying in the originally quoted post.

They are giving students a SCHOOL LAPTOP for EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES.... No where do they state its for non education purposes, and they state there is no expectation of privacy in communication on the system...The laptop is SCHOOL PROPERTY... do you understand this? SCHOOL PROPERTY.... S-C-H-O-O-L P-R-O-P-E-R-T-Y that which occurs on the laptop OCCURS ON SCHOOL PROPERTY... What I find sad is I have to spell this out to you...
S
C
H
O
O
L

P
R
O
P
E
R
T
Y

People like you are why our kids keep getting dumber...

People like you are why lawyers will never go out of business. Have fun watching your argument get shot down decisively by the courts over the coming weeks.

[Tekania]

Though the school had NO RIGHT to invade the private home with the webcam...that was totally beyond the pale.

On that note you're right... I'm talking about monitoring internet history/cache and keylogging on the laptop by the school... Some people here seem to think that the school should have no power to monitor ANYTHING on a school issued laptop... Which is an absolutely ignorant and absurd position...

Reinstalling the OS would, however, be a sure way to have the laptop confiscated, with a nice hefty fine slapped on the parents for their child's continuing use... since that would be classified as "defacing school property" (and it has happened before), and require the laptop's re-imaging...

I think the general problem here, and that I've seen, is that for some reason people have in their minds that these laptops are actual personal property of the students... There are even many cases where parents usurp the laptops for their own personal and/or business use... And this entire mentality needs to be exterminated like a cockroach infestation... It's incorrect...

Though, as I've stated, the actual webcam use is stepping over, since it extended from monitoring the laptop, to monitoring the inside of the student's parent's private property...

[Tekania]

People like you are why lawyers will never go out of business. Have fun watching your argument get shot down decisively by the courts over the coming weeks.

I'm not the one arguing a position which is patently absurd... Schools are already accountable for the contents of these laptops, and the content students use it for...

Now you're arguing that they should have no power to monitor things which you've made them accountable for in the past with past court precedent...

As I've stated, this is on the issue of the keyloggers, desktop monitoring and such... The webcam issue most certainly is over the line...

[Laerod]

Only if the people were aware this was happening. Listening in to a conversation like that is wire-tapping and requires a warrant. It's completely unacceptable for a school to secretly monitor communication like that.

No, it's not... That is like claiming a prison listening in on prisoner telephone conversations is wiretapping... It is not... the communication is occurring ON government property, there is no valid expectation of privacy...

Not comparable. Prisoners know that their conversations can be tapped and prisoners are being punished, ergo have their rights curtailed to some degree.

They still shouldn't be allowed to secretly access files.

Yes, they should... it is their property, and they are liable for its use and its contents... As stated, students/teachers using the laptops have no reasonable expectation of privacy, as the laptops are government property...

As stated before, the line they crossed was taking images of inside somone elses property (someones house, with the webcam)... Nothing on the laptop or accessed by the laptop (ie, viewing files, accessing internet cache/history, monitoring/recording keystrokes) can be reasonably construed as "private" as it is occurring on government property, and therefore their expectation of privacy is UNreasonable... The laptop is not authorized for private use outside the scope of school work...

Government property given to minors to take home. There's nothing wrong with the computers being monitored, but that they will be monitored needs to be explicitly told.

[Tekania]

Only if the people were aware this was happening. Listening in to a conversation like that is wire-tapping and requires a warrant. It's completely unacceptable for a school to secretly monitor communication like that.

No, it's not... That is like claiming a prison listening in on prisoner telephone conversations is wiretapping... It is not... the communication is occurring ON government property, there is no valid expectation of privacy...

Not comparable. Prisoners know that their conversations can be tapped and prisoners are being punished, ergo have their rights curtailed to some degree.

They still shouldn't be allowed to secretly access files.

Yes, they should... it is their property, and they are liable for its use and its contents... As stated, students/teachers using the laptops have no reasonable expectation of privacy, as the laptops are government property...

As stated before, the line they crossed was taking images of inside somone elses property (someones house, with the webcam)... Nothing on the laptop or accessed by the laptop (ie, viewing files, accessing internet cache/history, monitoring/recording keystrokes) can be reasonably construed as "private" as it is occurring on government property, and therefore their expectation of privacy is UNreasonable... The laptop is not authorized for private use outside the scope of school work...

Government property given to minors to take home. There's nothing wrong with the computers being monitored, but that they will be monitored needs to be explicitly told.

Government property taken home still equals government property, it does not simply cease to be government property when the student takes it home... The laptop is school property where-ever it is located at, as such the school has the explicit authority and need to monitor it wherever it may be at, as they have primary liability as to its content and use, with or without notification to the students or parents (parents should not be using the school laptops in the first place...).. The school has the primary liability for its use and what is stored on it... As such monitoring of its internet usage, keylogging, and monitoring files which are stored on it is and should be within the scope of authority of the school... (Since the webcams leave the scope of the property and extend into the private property of a citizen, such should not be in their authority [unless the laptop is reported as lost or stolen by the parents or students, and then only for that particular laptop in question.... Such a scenario becomes interesting if it becomes a case that this student in question falsely reporting the laptop stolen... at which point it will be my position that the school was not at fault on any point, even the webcam issue; and equally argue the kid himself is at fault for misappropriation of government property... such no longer becomes any privacy concern since ANY AND ALL USE of the laptop at said point is illegal])...

I can see no reason the school should be at fault for monitoring their own property as long as this monitoring DOES NOT extend into the property of another... as nothing ON or IN the laptop is the "property" of the student, its monitoring should not be illicit...

[Saint Jade IV]

On that note you're right... I'm talking about monitoring internet history/cache and keylogging on the laptop by the school... Some people here seem to think that the school should have no power to monitor ANYTHING on a school issued laptop... Which is an absolutely ignorant and absurd position...

Reinstalling the OS would, however, be a sure way to have the laptop confiscated, with a nice hefty fine slapped on the parents for their child's continuing use... since that would be classified as "defacing school property" (and it has happened before), and require the laptop's re-imaging...

I think the general problem here, and that I've seen, is that for some reason people have in their minds that these laptops are actual personal property of the students... There are even many cases where parents usurp the laptops for their own personal and/or business use... And this entire mentality needs to be exterminated like a cockroach infestation... It's incorrect...

Though, as I've stated, the actual webcam use is stepping over, since it extended from monitoring the laptop, to monitoring the inside of the student's parent's private property...

This is my point. I unfortunately was not aware that webcams could actually be remotely controlled. I was under the impression that the school was only monitoring the content on the laptop itself or while the student was using webcams for inappropriate purposes.

[Bazatia]

As possible after receiving a 'free' computer. THAT should take care of any 'preset' programming.

Basically this ^. If I am going to use a school issued computer, I am going to make sure whoever is going to try and see what I am doing is going to have one hell of a time trying, since most IT staff at schools don't really know what they are doing, and are thus able to be evaded.

[Newfoundworld]

But it does not say for solely educational purposes. Which, correct me if I'm wrong, seems to be what you were implying in the originally quoted post.

They are giving students a SCHOOL LAPTOP for EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES.... No where do they state its for non education purposes, and they state there is no expectation of privacy in communication on the system...The laptop is SCHOOL PROPERTY... do you understand this? SCHOOL PROPERTY.... S-C-H-O-O-L P-R-O-P-E-R-T-Y that which occurs on the laptop OCCURS ON SCHOOL PROPERTY... What I find sad is I have to spell this out to you...
S
C
H
O
O
L

P
R
O
P
E
R
T
Y

People like you are why our kids keep getting dumber...

The laptop may have been school property but with the webcam they were illegally entering homeowner property. They can bust you for watching porn on the laptop, they cant bust you for masturbating to it.

People like you are why our kids keep getting dumber. Oh wait, they aren't. I suppose it's just people like you that need to double check their shit before looking like an idiot because they got it all wrong

[Tekania]

The laptop may have been school property but with the webcam they were illegally entering homeowner property. They can bust you for watching porn on the laptop, they cant bust you for masturbating to it.

I've addressed my non issue with the webcam situation MULTIPLE GOD-DAMN FUCKING TIMES... Try actually putting forth some semblance of effort (read stop being a lazy fuck-stick) next time... I'm addressing people who seem to think the school cannot monitor their property in any way what-so-ever, such as the keystroke monitoring, internet cache/history and file monitoring which is also mentioned in the body of text of the plaintiff's brief... As for the rest of the meaningless dribble of a post you slapped in there, there is no need to address it, since it is FACTUALLY wrong (you're telling me to double check?), being based entirely on your either intentional or unintentional failure to double-check what the hell you were responding to in the first fucking place...

[NERVUN]

Tekania, cool it down, now. Your language is getting way, way too hot.

[Newfoundworld]

The laptop may have been school property but with the webcam they were illegally entering homeowner property. They can bust you for watching porn on the laptop, they cant bust you for masturbating to it.

I've addressed my non issue with the webcam situation MULTIPLE GOD-DAMN FUCKING TIMES... Try actually putting forth some semblance of effort (read stop being a lazy fuck-stick) next time... I'm addressing people who seem to think the school cannot monitor their property in any way what-so-ever, such as the keystroke monitoring, internet cache/history and file monitoring which is also mentioned in the body of text of the plaintiff's brief... As for the rest of the meaningless dribble of a post you slapped in there, there is no need to address it, since it is FACTUALLY wrong (you're telling me to double check?), being based entirely on your either intentional or unintentional failure to double-check what the hell you were responding to in the first fucking place...

You realise that no matter what you say the legal side of things will come out on my side, right?

Suck it up, buttercup.

[Tekania]

Tekania, cool it down, now. Your language is getting way, way too hot.

Perhaps you are right, I'll simply have to start ending all of my posts with this, so that I do not have to keep addressing the same thing to different people every other post...

I most certainly oppose the webcam monitoring...

As stated before, the line they crossed was taking images of inside somone elses property (someones house, with the webcam)...

Though, as I've stated, the actual webcam use is stepping over, since it extended from monitoring the laptop, to monitoring the inside of the student's parent's private property...

[Tekania]

You realise that no matter what you say the legal side of things will come out on my side, right?

Suck it up, buttercup.

Luckily Nervun has given me an idea for dealing with people who seem to lack reading comprehension skills...

I most certainly oppose the webcam monitoring...

As stated before, the line they crossed was taking images of inside somone elses property (someones house, with the webcam)...

Though, as I've stated, the actual webcam use is stepping over, since it extended from monitoring the laptop, to monitoring the inside of the student's parent's private property...

Since I have never ONCE claiming that their use of the WEBCAM in this case was licit.... Do you understand what I am saying... What I am saying is you're attempting to create a STRAWMAN by attempting to CLAIM that I am for the web-cam monitoring... I am not, I am not now, and I was not even BEFORE you made your post... By continuing to claim that I am, you are creating a strawman rather than attacking my actual position... So guess what, legal side or no, you just lost this debate...