Islam/Muslim Discussion Thread ٢

[Ghuraba Al-Khorusani]

Okay what should I expect from a Hadith rejecting Communist Murtad

Quranist =\= apostate

Yes

[Napkiraly]

Okay what should I expect from a Hadith rejecting Communist Murtad

Quranist =\= apostate

To Salafist like him it is.

[Communist Xomaniax]

It's not exactly what I'd call imperialism, but the French government has had some pretty interventionist tendencies. Even Hollande has continued France's North African policies, which aren't exactly live-and-let-live.

It hardly counts as imperialism if the affected nation asks for their help.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

It's not exactly what I'd call imperialism, but the French government has had some pretty interventionist tendencies. Even Hollande has continued France's North African policies, which aren't exactly live-and-let-live.

It hardly counts as imperialism if the affected nation asks for their help.

Well it kinda does. in many Afrikan countries they have to pay 'reparations' to the invasive nations.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Quranist =\= apostate

To Salafist like him it is.

How do you know he's a Salafist? And Ghuraba, Assalamu 'Alaikum. I'm not sure if you should be calling people apostates. You don't know if Allah (SWT) will curse them. Also, why do you believe so? I'm not dogging you, just asking.

[Greater Tezdrian]

Quranist =\= apostate

Yes

There's more than one kind of Muslim. I know, shocker

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Also, to the people who say that invaded nations should've fixed themselves by now, it's not easy. The West has not been invaded as invasively and as long as the East. A country can't be invaded and occupied starting from 1600s to 1800s/1900s, win independence yet still be influenced and beaten up in a war, then bounce back. It doesn't work that way.

[Napkiraly]

To Salafist like him it is.

How do you know he's a Salafist? And Ghuraba, Assalamu 'Alaikum. I'm not sure if you should be calling people apostates. You don't know if Allah (SWT) will curse them. Also, why do you believe so? I'm not dogging you, just asking.

Because he's admitted it.

Also, to the people who say that invaded nations should've fixed themselves by now, it's not easy. The West has not been invaded as invasively and as long as the East. A country can't be invaded and occupied starting from 1600s to 1800s/1900s, win independence yet still be influenced and beaten up in a war, then bounce back. It doesn't work that way.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_invasion_of_Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huns https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_invasions_of_Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_wars_in_Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Muslim_conquests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avar_Khaganate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umayyad_invasion_of_Gaul https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_slave_trade

[Communist Xomaniax]

It hardly counts as imperialism if the affected nation asks for their help.

Well it kinda does. in many Afrikan countries they have to pay 'reparations' to the invasive nations.

No, it really doesn't. If a nation's government is asking for help from France, it isn't then imperialism for France to oblige them. Your blathering hogwash about "reparations" being paid by Africans (lol at using the German spelling of Africa, btw. Real authentic) to colonials is completely unrelated, and blatantly wrong at best.

[Ghuraba Al-Khorusani]

@ElAmin I make Takfeer based on the Furqan of the Quran ane Sunnah. (i.e. let's say the Quran says if you dye your hair pink it is a major sin then we have Hadiths stating that Muhammad would punish them and insult them I'd say the same) In Islam most sins without imedeate Taubah make you Kufr.

[North Arkana]

>"French Imperialist Conspiracy in North Africa"
>"Imperialists" asked to intervene by locals
>Local opinions largely positive outside of known extremist areas
>even the separatist rebels are on board for fighting the extremists with the "imperialists" and government forces
>kekking all around

[Napkiraly]

@ElAmin I make Takfeer based on the Furqan of the Quran ane Sunnah. (i.e. let's say the Quran says if you dye your hair pink it is a major sin then we have Hadiths stating that Muhammad would punish them and insult them I'd say the same) In Islam most sins without imedeate Taubah make you Kufr.

I'm pretty sure sinning makes you fasiq not kafir.

[Ghuraba Al-Khorusani]

"A Dua made at Tahajjud is like an arrow which never misses it's target"- Imam Shafi'i (RA)

[Ghuraba Al-Khorusani]

@ElAmin I make Takfeer based on the Furqan of the Quran ane Sunnah. (i.e. let's say the Quran says if you dye your hair pink it is a major sin then we have Hadiths stating that Muhammad would punish them and insult them I'd say the same) In Islam most sins without imedeate Taubah make you Kufr.

I'm pretty sure sinning makes you fasiq not kafir.

Let me rephrase most Fasiqs are Kufr as a result of their violations.

[Alsheb]

Your Salafist friends are the biggest perpetrators of bid'ah in the world, so you have no right to accuse outhers of corruption of the faith.

Okay what should I expect from a Hadith rejecting Communist Murtad

The fact that I don't accept the bid'ah that you worship makes me an apostate now?

Why don't you just go all the way and proclaim a fatwa against me? Obviously, you have no right to do so, but then again you Salafists are known for twisting the message of Islam to suit your own will anyway.

[Alsheb]

Well it kinda does. in many Afrikan countries they have to pay 'reparations' to the invasive nations.

No, it really doesn't. If a nation's government is asking for help from France, it isn't then imperialism for France to oblige them. Your blathering hogwash about "reparations" being paid by Africans (lol at using the German spelling of Africa, btw. Real authentic) to colonials is completely unrelated, and blatantly wrong at best.

So the president of Côte d'Ivoire asked for France to come an remove him from power in 2011?

[Alsheb]

@ElAmin I make Takfeer based on the Furqan of the Quran ane Sunnah. (i.e. let's say the Quran says if you dye your hair pink it is a major sin then we have Hadiths stating that Muhammad would punish them and insult them I'd say the same) In Islam most sins without imedeate Taubah make you Kufr.

In no school of Islam do you have the right to declare takfir against someone without that person having openly rejected one of the main principles of faith. If one believes in the six articles of faith and the five pillars of Islam, that person is Muslim. Denying that such a person is indeed a Muslim is a sin on your behalf.

[Annorax]

I am not muslim and I will never convert. With that said I've always been interested in going to Mecca and witnessing the Hajj. I've never understood why that is not allowed. I know historically why but it doesn't make sense to me. Can someone elaborate?

[Aelex]

Jesus Christ, sometimes I think you just purposefully try to act stupid in order to derail the discussion at hand.

Who the hell ever said that you need to miltarily colonise a country in order to have influence over it? You don't have to be a specialist in order to know that imperialism works in far more diverse ways than simply colonialism.

Ho, I have no need to do so when you're doing it yourself more... "skillfully" than I could ever hope to accomplish.

Because m8, following your "interpretation" of the world; any relationship between two country, one of whom being more powerful than the other, is akin to imperialism as the balance of power will be leaning toward one side more than the other. As for exercising influence; every country, no matter how small or weak it is, exercise some amount on even the biggests Great Powers.
You're merely over-laying your Marxist ideology on the world, interpreting every little thing as a proof of the "devilry" of the West, rather than having a thorough look at the situation.

[Aelex]

So the president of Côte d'Ivoire asked for France to come an remove him from power in 2011?

Ho? You mean the "president" who lost the election but refused to acknowledge the victory of his adversor, subsequantly starting a civil war just so he could keep his ass in power?
Yeah. Us French are such "Diables" for removing this poor man from his "justly held" office and preserving democracy in the country, avoiding it the fate of so many others where dictators seized power...

[Alsheb]

So the president of Côte d'Ivoire asked for France to come an remove him from power in 2011?

Ho? You mean the "president" who lost the election but refused to acknowledge the victory of his adversor, subsequantly starting a civil war just so he could keep his ass in power?
Yeah. Us French are such "Diables" for removing this poor man from his "justly held" office and preserving democracy in the country, avoiding it the fate of so many others where dictators seized power...

And where do you put the limit? George W. Bush lost his election but took office anyway. Is that a reason to invade the country and massacre its people?

And it was Ouattara who started the civil war after claiming he had won the victory, despite the results saying otherwise. Get your facts straight.

[Alsheb]

Jesus Christ, sometimes I think you just purposefully try to act stupid in order to derail the discussion at hand.

Who the hell ever said that you need to miltarily colonise a country in order to have influence over it? You don't have to be a specialist in order to know that imperialism works in far more diverse ways than simply colonialism.

Ho, I have no need to do so when you're doing it yourself more... "skillfully" than I could ever hope to accomplish.

Because m8, following your "interpretation" of the world; any relationship between two country, one of whom being more powerful than the other, is akin to imperialism as the balance of power will be leaning toward one side more than the other. As for exercising influence; every country, no matter how small or weak it is, exercise some amount on even the biggests Great Powers.
You're merely over-laying your Marxist ideology on the world, interpreting every little thing as a proof of the "devilry" of the West, rather than having a thorough look at the situation.

There is a difference between exercising influence and constantly intervening by either invading (Iraq, Afghanistan, Ivory Coast), arming rebels and death squads to overthrow a regime you don't like (Nicaragua, Angola, Congo, Brazil) and orchestrating coup d'états against countries that refuse to allow your busineses to plunder the country (pretty much every single country in Latin America).

Do I seriously need to teach you about the dozens of interventions the West has carried out in the Third World during the past decades? It's not as if that is obscure information, it's quite commonly known.

[Aelex]

Ho? You mean the "president" who lost the election but refused to acknowledge the victory of his adversor, subsequantly starting a civil war just so he could keep his ass in power?
Yeah. Us French are such "Diables" for removing this poor man from his "justly held" office and preserving democracy in the country, avoiding it the fate of so many others where dictators seized power...

And where do you put the limit? George W. Bush lost his election but took office anyway. Is that a reason to invade the country and massacre its people?

And it was Ouattara who started the civil war after claiming he had won the victory, despite the results saying otherwise. Get your facts straight.

Heh. Bush probably cheated but he didn't tried to maintain himself in power by a coup à la Napoléon III.

And no. It was definetely Gbagbo. By cancelling the result of 7 regions just to gain the majority of votes, he was the one crossing the Rubicon.
C'mon m8, if you want to lecture people about getting their facts straight, try to at least not be the one who get them wrong. It's just making you look rather stupid.

[Alsheb]

And where do you put the limit? George W. Bush lost his election but took office anyway. Is that a reason to invade the country and massacre its people?

And it was Ouattara who started the civil war after claiming he had won the victory, despite the results saying otherwise. Get your facts straight.

Heh. Bush probably cheated but he didn't tried to maintain himself in power by a coup à la Napoléon III.

And no. It was definetely Gbagbo. By cancelling the result of 7 regions just to gain the majority of votes, he was the one crossing the Rubicon.
C'mon m8, if you want to lecture people about getting their facts straight, try to at least not be the one who get them wrong. It's just making you look rather stupid.

So where do you draw the line? You're not getting of the hook just like that.
So you reserve the right for yourself to attack everyone everywhere whenever you feel like you don't agree with their policies.
World War III would definitely be sure if you had any power anywhere whatsoever.

[Aelex]

So where do you draw the line? You're not getting of the hook just like that.
So you reserve the right for yourself to attack everyone everywhere whenever you feel like you don't agree with their policies.
World War III would definitely be sure if you had any power anywhere whatsoever.

There is no hooks to get off from since your comparison was shitty from the start.
When you lose an election then cancel the vote of several regions for no reason just to gain a small majority of votes in your favor before; by refusing to step down from power and recognizing the democratically elected new president, by trying to use the army to maintain yourself in your position and encoraging your supporters to fight your adversor's supporters, what you're doing is called a Coup d'état à la Napoléon III and it's in no way akin to a simple electoral fraud such as the one Bush probably perpetrated.

And, please m8. Now you're just making a fool of yourself. When a democratically elected president is calling you to restore the Democracy in his country after a dictator seized power, you aren't "attack[ing] everyone everywhere whenever you feel like you don't agree with their policies.". The mere fact that you try to pull this shit up just show how desespered and arguments less you are.