Islam/Muslim Discussion Thread ٢

[Alsheb]

I would describe myself as somewhat of a Quranist. I'm quite sceptical towards the Hadith and the speculations that tend to come from so-called hadith science. Personally, I see the Qur'an as the only true source of Islamic religious law, belief and customs.
Strict adherence to Hadith is in my opinion one of the reasons behind certain abuses of the Islamic religion and deviations from the message of the Qur'an.

[Alsheb]

Coming right to discussion about Islam: have any of you guys ever read Karen Armstrong? She's an American researcher of comparative theology, and has made it one of her goals to give Islam a place in modern society. I believe she herself is somewhat of an adherent of a sort of Christian mysticism herself, having left the Catholic church after formerly having been a nun.

She has some really good writings about the origins and message of Islam, as well as about the life of the Prophet and the effects he had on the world around him. Armstrong analyses the Prophet no only in a religious, but also in a socio-political context of the time, and shows him as the great reformer, if not to say revolutionary, he was in seventh-century Arabia.

As a convert to Islam, the works of Karen Armstrong are helping me greatly in deepening and widening my understanding of the faith. Even for non-Muslims, her books are most useful to help you understand the Muslim spirit and faith better. I'm currently almost finishing up Muhammad: The Life of the Prophet, and I'm awaiting her follow-up book Muhammad: A Prophet for our Time to arrive in my mailbox.

[Acarn]

Coming right to discussion about Islam: have any of you guys ever read Karen Armstrong? She's an American researcher of comparative theology, and has made it one of her goals to give Islam a place in modern society. I believe she herself is somewhat of an adherent of a sort of Christian mysticism herself, having left the Catholic church after formerly having been a nun.

She has some really good writings about the origins and message of Islam, as well as about the life of the Prophet and the effects he had on the world around him. Armstrong analyses the Prophet no only in a religious, but also in a socio-political context of the time, and shows him as the great reformer, if not to say revolutionary, he was in seventh-century Arabia.

As a convert to Islam, the works of Karen Armstrong are helping me greatly in deepening and widening my understanding of the faith. Even for non-Muslims, her books are most useful to help you understand the Muslim spirit and faith better. I'm currently almost finishing up Muhammad: The Life of the Prophet, and I'm awaiting her follow-up book Muhammad: A Prophet for our Time to arrive in my mailbox.

When you mean Life of a prohet, do you mean this ? http://www.barnesandnoble.com/p/muhamma ... id=3x20449
iif so i own it and loooove it

[Senegalboy]

the prophet muhammed(S.A.W) was a reformer he did try to end slavery and freed vast amounts of slaves and servents

[Alsheb]

Coming right to discussion about Islam: have any of you guys ever read Karen Armstrong? She's an American researcher of comparative theology, and has made it one of her goals to give Islam a place in modern society. I believe she herself is somewhat of an adherent of a sort of Christian mysticism herself, having left the Catholic church after formerly having been a nun.

She has some really good writings about the origins and message of Islam, as well as about the life of the Prophet and the effects he had on the world around him. Armstrong analyses the Prophet no only in a religious, but also in a socio-political context of the time, and shows him as the great reformer, if not to say revolutionary, he was in seventh-century Arabia.

As a convert to Islam, the works of Karen Armstrong are helping me greatly in deepening and widening my understanding of the faith. Even for non-Muslims, her books are most useful to help you understand the Muslim spirit and faith better. I'm currently almost finishing up Muhammad: The Life of the Prophet, and I'm awaiting her follow-up book Muhammad: A Prophet for our Time to arrive in my mailbox.

When you mean Life of a prohet, do you mean this ? http://www.barnesandnoble.com/p/muhamma ... id=3x20449
iif so i own it and loooove it

Ah yes, sorry for the mistake in the title. But yes, that's the book I meant.
I'm with you on absolutely loving that book. One of the best portrayals of the Prophet's life out there, I believe.
Makes me even wonder if Karen Armstrong did not secretly convert to Islam

[Napkiraly]

Arabic translation of The God Delusion has been downloaded 10 million times in the Middle East apparently, with 30% of that number coming from Saudi Arabia itself. Even if this does not result in a widespread trend of leaving religion behind, though I hope it does, it's good to see that people are exposing themselves to different and contrasting views on the subject matter. The statistic about Saudi Arabia is rather surprising, though I suppose it makes it even better. It does remind me of that Vice story covering a young Saudi woman forced to flee Saudi Arabia since she was an atheist.

[Acarn]

Arabic translation of The God Delusion has been downloaded 10 million times in the Middle East apparently, with 30% of that number coming from Saudi Arabia itself. Even if this does not result in a widespread trend of leaving religion behind, though I hope it does, it's good to see that people are exposing themselves to different and contrasting views on the subject matter. The statistic about Saudi Arabia is rather surprising, though I suppose it makes it even better. It does remind me of that Vice story covering a young Saudi woman forced to flee Saudi Arabia since she was an atheist.

SA is an absolute mess.

[Senegalboy]

saudi arabia is very corrupt now when my dad was growing up in jeddah he said that most people there hate the royal family

[Napkiraly]

saudi arabia is very corrupt now when my dad was growing up in jeddah he said that most people there hate the royal family

I have a family friend who was forced to move back to Saudi Arabia despite him absolutely hating it. He preferred Canada far more. I hope one day he is able to come back.

[Acarn]

saudi arabia is very corrupt now when my dad was growing up in jeddah he said that most people there hate the royal family

I have a family friend who was forced to move back to Saudi Arabia despite him absolutely hating it. He preferred Canada far more. I hope one day he is able to come back.

Im still hopping for some sort of arab spring type event in SA, the saud's are monstrous.

[Senegalboy]

well,my dad said that saudi arabia has gone bad when he was born he was born during king saud reign which was ok but the king was a rapist there was this saying they sometimes said in jeddah look out or the king will make you pregnant

[Napkiraly]

I have a family friend who was forced to move back to Saudi Arabia despite him absolutely hating it. He preferred Canada far more. I hope one day he is able to come back.

Im still hopping for some sort of arab spring type event in SA, the saud's are monstrous.

Probably not going to happen and I'll be more afraid over who takes over. It's a real mess.

And preferably it would start after my family friend is back in Canada with his kids; his wife can stay in SA for all I care.

[Acarn]

Im still hopping for some sort of arab spring type event in SA, the saud's are monstrous.

Probably not going to happen and I'll be more afraid over who takes over. It's a real mess.

And preferably it would start after my family friend is back in Canada with his kids; his wife can stay in SA for all I care.

I know a number of saudi's, they are good people. Definitely more conservative than myself, but generally good kind people. A democracy would be a great first step towards liberalizing and ending the wahhabi domination.

[Napkiraly]

Probably not going to happen and I'll be more afraid over who takes over. It's a real mess.

And preferably it would start after my family friend is back in Canada with his kids; his wife can stay in SA for all I care.

I know a number of saudi's, they are good people. Definitely more conservative than myself, but generally good kind people. A democracy would be a great first step towards liberalizing and ending the wahhabi domination.

This might seem counter intuitive, but in revolutions it doesn't matter what the people want or even support. All that matters is who gains the control and power to enforce their rule. The Bolsheviks are a great example.

[Acarn]

I know a number of saudi's, they are good people. Definitely more conservative than myself, but generally good kind people. A democracy would be a great first step towards liberalizing and ending the wahhabi domination.

This might seem counter intuitive, but in revolutions it doesn't matter what the people want or even support. All that matters is who gains the control and power to enforce their rule. The Bolsheviks are a great example.

The bolsheviks did have alot of popular support, what went wrong was the people failed to understand many of their true goals and the rise of stalin. But all of this is getting a bit off topic for a muslim discussion thread

[Napkiraly]

This might seem counter intuitive, but in revolutions it doesn't matter what the people want or even support. All that matters is who gains the control and power to enforce their rule. The Bolsheviks are a great example.

The bolsheviks did have alot of popular support, what went wrong was the people failed to understand many of their true goals and the rise of stalin. But all of this is getting a bit off topic for a muslim discussion thread

They did not, however, have a majority. In the 1917 elections, they lost to the SR's and only gained 23.5% of the vote.

Indeed, however.

[Acarn]

Im just hoping that Al-Abadi manages to get his new cabinet approves, it will do wonders to have technocrats and people such as that in control of ministries rather than party officials.

[Alsheb]

Im just hoping that Al-Abadi manages to get his new cabinet approves, it will do wonders to have technocrats and people such as that in control of ministries rather than party officials.

I doubt Habadi really wants it though. He could have fulfilled that promise months ago, but he's just too much attached to the corrupted system that exists in Iraq today. Personally, I'm hoping Muqtada al-Sadr can rise to the forefront of Iraqi politics. If anyone in Iraq is a trustworthy leader to lead Iraq back to being a sovereign and prosperous country, it's him.

[Alsheb]

saudi arabia is very corrupt now when my dad was growing up in jeddah he said that most people there hate the royal family

According to several specialists on Arab policies, the Saudi political system can exist solely due to the support of US imperialism. As soon as the American influence in the Middle East were to fade, the corrupted monarchy of Saudi Arabia would surely collapse.

[Napkiraly]

saudi arabia is very corrupt now when my dad was growing up in jeddah he said that most people there hate the royal family

According to several specialists on Arab policies, the Saudi political system can exist solely due to the support of US imperialism. As soon as the American influence in the Middle East were to fade, the corrupted monarchy of Saudi Arabia would surely collapse.

If they're right. Tensions would rise elsewhere however *looks to Israel*

[Mahdistan]

Humans aren't animals running off of pure instinct. We're intelligent, and supposedly rational. You don't get a free pass for lashing out just because someone hurt your pwecious feefees. Generally you metaphorically slaughtered and thrown out as pig feed. Maybe instead of focusing all this effort on trying to justify violence in response to criticism, how about investing that effort into breaking down muslim extremism? How about the muslim world grows a thicker skin? Until then criticism will be valid, and until then islam and its practitioners will continue to enjoy a shitty reputation. A joke isn't going to fucking kill you.

Is it just me, or does his statement regarding "tempting a bull" sound a lot like the fallacious justifications made for things like "I didn't rape her, she was dressed in a way which tempted me"... Which reminds me of the reasoning behind full body coverings among ultra-conservative Muslims for women. "Cover up those ankles, or else we won't be able to control our powerful instincts to mate." When you read into it, it just begins to sound like self-loathing and self-deprecation.

I'm not trying to justify these people, but people, whether it's when they're publishing religious criticism or a woman wearing inappropriate clothing, should be aware of the dangers they face when they do it. We shouldn't have a culture of tempting bad people to do bad things, unless that person is aware of the risk they're taking in doing so.

[Germanic Scyths]

A bit off topic but does anyone know a good video regarding Saudi-Arabia's internal politics and domestic policies? I am fairly known to the ties between the al-Saud family and Wahhabism, but that's it. I have heard of Game of Thrones-esque intrigue in Saudi-Arabia but I am totally unaware of that.

[Mahdistan]

Here's an honest question.

How can any of you still be practicing moslems when so much shit happens in its name?

Bad people are everywhere, it doesn't make the thing they claim to represent be wrong. If anything, I consider these events to be challenges to my faith. God challenges all believers, for he does not what blind, mindless drones as followers, but people who can overcome difficulty and still hold steadfast to their faith.

[Mahdistan]

Because those people represent a violent radical portion of our faith. How can people be christians when catholics priests are implicated in sexual abuse, how can people be hindu or buddhist when they kill muslims in Rohingya, how can people be jewish when radical settlers kill palestinian civilians. Because those people are radicals, they do not represent the larger beliefs of their respective religious groups.

You mean...
Shin Buddism, Shintonism, Hinddunism, Jainism, and other folk religion are radicals religion?

They too have their problems. Historically, Buddhism only established itself through violent, aggressive conflict (I'm not denying this was the case with Islam, too), the Shintos practiced all manners of honor killings and were relatively aggressive to Christianity when it came, Hindus have outright committed genocide against minority and even majority faiths within their kingdoms, and even the Jains, perhaps the most peaceful of them all, had their mean-streak under the few kingdoms they had throughout the subcontinent. There have been bad elements in every religion, not just the Abrahamic faiths.

[Germanic Scyths]

Here's an honest question.

How can any of you still be practicing moslems when so much shit happens in its name?

Peace be upon you,

While there are many, many horrible things happening in the world I actually feel motivated to practice more and more. Not only because I feel more compassion to my fellow human beings (Muslim or not), but also because of the fact that I want to show a different side of Islam.

Elhamdulillah, yesterday I ate with a council member of a nearby Mosque, he isn't clergy but he knows his stuff about Islam. He said something and I took it as good advice;

"Never stop doing good, never ever. People who want to do bad never sleep, and never stop doing bad. Be the counterforce by doing good, even if that results in you not sleeping."

Wise words I take into my heart.