Islam/Muslim Discussion Thread ٢

[Free Rhenish States]

>why is it always you guys

Maybe if you crawled out of that hole and started to travel there, your opinion may be broadened and enhanced.

And I daresay Indonesia is a fundamentally 'free country' especially when we look at all of its quasi authoritarian neighbors.

You can be arrested and thrown in jail for being communist. Super free.

What a big loss.

[The Alma Mater]

You can be arrested and thrown in jail for being communist. Super free.

What a big loss.

I am certain I can find a communist who feels the same way about muslims being thrown in jail for being muslim

[Greater Pareidolia]

Indonesia's falling into deeper shit every day.

http://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-asia/thousands-of-muslim-hardliners-to-rally-in-jakarta-over-alleged-blasphemy-by-governor

Why is it always you guys?

"Muslims are the most overreacting people in the world. They're always like this. Rioting over absolutely nothing. Not like us*
*BLM burns down a city block in the background*

Imagine black moslems.

[Jochizyd Republic]

"Muslims are the most overreacting people in the world. They're always like this. Rioting over absolutely nothing. Not like us*
*BLM burns down a city block in the background*

Imagine black moslems.

A lot of them. Actually.

[Free Rhenish States]

What a big loss.

I am certain I can find a communist who feels the same way about muslims being thrown in jail for being muslim

Ok.
But there's one thing about it:
I don't care about communists.

"Muslims are the most overreacting people in the world. They're always like this. Rioting over absolutely nothing. Not like us*
*BLM burns down a city block in the background*

Imagine black moslems.

There is one black Muslim in this thread, and I don´t think he´s gonna like what you just said there.

[Jochizyd Republic]

What a big loss.

I am certain I can find a communist who feels the same way about muslims being thrown in jail for being muslim

"Hurr hurr. I'm just gonna post something snide and vague and then wuss out so I don't have to actually give non telegraphic arguments based on not-even-first hand anecdotal evidence"

^you in this thread.

[Free Rhenish States]

I am certain I can find a communist who feels the same way about muslims being thrown in jail for being muslim

"Hurr hurr. I'm just gonna post something snide and vague and then wuss out so I don't have to actually give non telegraphic arguments based on not-even-first hand anecdotal evidence"

^you in this thread.

Damn, man.
You just described everything he ever said in this topic in just two sentences.

[Alsheb]

Seriously, islamism is one of the least concerns one should have with Indonesia. How about we worry about their crippling corruption, horrible exploitation of workers, ever increasing poverty and their rapid environmental destruction that causes hundreds of thousands of deaths in Indonesia and surrounding countries every single year.

Seriously, typical western liberal crap. Only getting up in arms when a bunch of islamists are on the scene.

[Jochizyd Republic]

Seriously, islamism is one of the least concerns one should have with Indonesia. How about we worry about their crippling corruption, horrible exploitation of workers, ever increasing poverty and their rapid environmental destruction that causes hundreds of thousands of deaths in Indonesia and surrounding countries every single year.

Seriously, typical western liberal crap. Only getting up in arms when a bunch of islamists are on the scene.

Not even that many either. apparently they're utterly an utterly pathetic meme-tier failed party in Indonesia.

Like the Liberal Democratic Party in Russia.

[Serenvia]

Seriously, islamism is one of the least concerns one should have with Indonesia. How about we worry about their crippling corruption, horrible exploitation of workers, ever increasing poverty and their rapid environmental destruction that causes hundreds of thousands of deaths in Indonesia and surrounding countries every single year.

Seriously, typical western liberal crap. Only getting up in arms when a bunch of islamists are on the scene.

still more democratic than malaysia c:

Honestly speaking however, Indonesia is getting better with all these things. It's just the shackles of the old Suharto regime have yet to be fully shaken off, and transparency hasn't been stressed hard enough. Progress takes patience.

[Jamzmania]

How do Muslims reconcile the Satanic Verses? These are the verses which Mohammed revealed which he claimed were from God but were actually from Satan. The story of the Satanic Verses is reported in several early Muslim sources, including the histories of Ibn Ishaq and Al-Tabari. Here is a passage from Ibn Ishaq (pg. 165-166) concerning this event:



How can you trust a prophet who cannot tell the difference between a revelation from Satan and a revelation from God?

Now I will connect this back to the Old Testament. One of the most popular Old Testament prophecies of Mohammed is Deuteronomy 18:18-19 (NKJV):



If Muslims claim that these are uncorrupted verses, how then can they dismiss the very next verse (18:20)?



Given this verse, I think it is safe to say that Moses would have considered Mohammed a false prophet, considering he spoke "a word in [God's] name, which [God did] not command him to speak," as testified by the angel Gabriel himself in the passage above.

1. I know the "Satanic Verses" allegation, this is a hoax that has been refuted before.
2. Prophet in the old testament is someone who's just a precher, "rasul" (messenger) in Islam is a different term.
Can´t give you a detailed answer at the moment, sorry, you'll have to take it on trust.

If it's a hoax, it's a hoax that the early Muslim community widely believed and propagated.

A prophet in the Old Testament is someone who reveals the words and will of God.

[Free Rhenish States]

1. I know the "Satanic Verses" allegation, this is a hoax that has been refuted before.
2. Prophet in the old testament is someone who's just a precher, "rasul" (messenger) in Islam is a different term.
Can´t give you a detailed answer at the moment, sorry, you'll have to take it on trust.

If it's a hoax, it's a hoax that the early Muslim community widely believed and propagated.

A prophet in the Old Testament is someone who reveals the words and will of God.

You are neither Muslim nor did you live back then to actually know what the early Muslim community widely believed and propagated.

No, a prophet in the old testament and new testament is just a preacher. There were many of those in the Roman Empire, a messenger is something else.

[Ekdesh]

So, because I mostly go to Turkish mosques and because most of my Muslim friends are Turkish and because my 'Islamic mentor' is Turk too, I decided to go the Hanafi Fiqh way.

Good thing I never really liked lobsters anyway

but lobsters are halal

[Greater Pareidolia]

If it's a hoax, it's a hoax that the early Muslim community widely believed and propagated.

A prophet in the Old Testament is someone who reveals the words and will of God.

You are neither Muslim nor did you live back then to actually know what the early Muslim community widely believed and propagated.

No, a prophet in the old testament and new testament is just a preacher. There were many of those in the Roman Empire, a messenger is something else.

"You are not one of us so you can't have an opinion on the matter."

[Hindia Belanda]

1. I know the "Satanic Verses" allegation, this is a hoax that has been refuted before.
2. Prophet in the old testament is someone who's just a precher, "rasul" (messenger) in Islam is a different term.
Can´t give you a detailed answer at the moment, sorry, you'll have to take it on trust.

If it's a hoax, it's a hoax that the early Muslim community widely believed and propagated.

A prophet in the Old Testament is someone who reveals the words and will of God.

The Al gharaniq story has a very weak isnad. That alone is enough for its historicity and authenticity to be doubted. It's also not found in any of the Sunni Sihah collections and virtually nonexistent in Shia sources.

[Hindia Belanda]

So, because I mostly go to Turkish mosques and because most of my Muslim friends are Turkish and because my 'Islamic mentor' is Turk too, I decided to go the Hanafi Fiqh way.

Good thing I never really liked lobsters anyway

but lobsters are halal

Not for hanafis and jafaris, no

[Aelex]

No, a prophet in the old testament and new testament is just a preacher. There were many of those in the Roman Empire, a messenger is something else.

prophet
ˈprɒfɪt
noun
1.
a person regarded as an inspired teacher or proclaimer of the will of God.
"the Old Testament prophet, Jeremiah"

No. A prophet is not a mere preacher but one who spoke on behalf of God after being ordered to do so by Him.

[Ekdesh]

Anyone go to Naqshbandi zikrs?

[Jamzmania]

If it's a hoax, it's a hoax that the early Muslim community widely believed and propagated.

A prophet in the Old Testament is someone who reveals the words and will of God.

You are neither Muslim nor did you live back then to actually know what the early Muslim community widely believed and propagated.

No, a prophet in the old testament and new testament is just a preacher. There were many of those in the Roman Empire, a messenger is something else.

My being Muslim or not is irrelevant, and I know what the early Muslim community widely believed and propagated because of the large number of early Muslim sources which have this story in them.

So Abraham, Moses, Samuel, Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Jesus, to name a few, were just preachers? They didn't hear the words and will of God?

[Free Rhenish States]

You are neither Muslim nor did you live back then to actually know what the early Muslim community widely believed and propagated.

No, a prophet in the old testament and new testament is just a preacher. There were many of those in the Roman Empire, a messenger is something else.

"You are not one of us so you can't have an opinion on the matter."

As if someone without knowledge would know. (C) Smith Protectorate :^)

No, a prophet in the old testament and new testament is just a preacher. There were many of those in the Roman Empire, a messenger is something else.

prophet
ˈprɒfɪt
noun
1.
a person regarded as an inspired teacher or proclaimer of the will of God.
"the Old Testament prophet, Jeremiah"

No. A prophet is not a mere preacher but one who spoke on behalf of God after being ordered to do so by Him.

That´s exactly what these preachers did in the Roman Empire. Don't poke holes at my statements, address the whole argument. I didn't mention the meaning of prophet as a word, I mentioned the prophet in the old testament. Stop using your strawmans here.

You are neither Muslim nor did you live back then to actually know what the early Muslim community widely believed and propagated.

No, a prophet in the old testament and new testament is just a preacher. There were many of those in the Roman Empire, a messenger is something else.

My being Muslim or not is irrelevant, and I know what the early Muslim community widely believed and propagated because of the large number of early Muslim sources which have this story in them.

So Abraham, Moses, Samuel, Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Jesus, to name a few, were just preachers? They didn't hear the words and will of God?

Of course, it is relevant, since we would know our religion better. I'm very familiar with Islamic history, and I'm sure I would have known if that were true. Sadly, it wasn't:

4.) The Satanic Verses story: This story is only found in Al-Tabari and not in Ibn Ishaq. May I suggest Reading what Islamic-awareness.org has to say about this matter here.-- And yes the Satanic Vereses story is false:

"The story that Muhammad could have used the Satanic suggestion is rejected by almost all exegetes, but the fact that the story persists as a subject of exegetes' discussions is testimony to the reality of the temptation both for Muhammad and for later Muslims in their own struggles with such "Babylons" as London, New York, Paris, or Hamburg." [16]

So much for a wide belief. :^)

Maybe you will stop interpreting my words as freely as you do the hadith? If you do, quote them, OK? I never claimed they weren't prophets, nor that they were just preachers. But regarding your question, Muhammad (saw), Noah, Jesus, Moses and Abraham, Salih, Lot, Jethro and Eber were the only messengers (rasul) we know. All others were prophets.

[Free Rhenish States]

If it's a hoax, it's a hoax that the early Muslim community widely believed and propagated.

A prophet in the Old Testament is someone who reveals the words and will of God.

The Al gharaniq story has a very weak isnad. That alone is enough for its historicity and authenticity to be doubted. It's also not found in any of the Sunni Sihah collections and virtually nonexistent in Shia sources.

Ik weet het. Onze religie is niet gebaseerd op dromen, vertelligen van onbekenden en sprookjes zonder isnad, in tegenstelling tot christendom.

[Aelex]

That´s exactly what these preachers did in the Roman Empire. Don't poke holes at my statements, address the whole argument. I didn't mention the meaning of prophet as a word, I mentioned the prophet in the old testament. Stop using your strawmans here.

Except, once more, preachers =/= prophets as we've been telling you multiple time. Prophets receive the direct revelation of God and speak on his behalf, they're far from being mere preachers. That is the exact meaning of the word in the old testament and your own definition has nothing to do with it.
And please, don't try to play the fallacy bingo. I made no strawmen, just corrected your error.

[Free Rhenish States]

That´s exactly what these preachers did in the Roman Empire. Don't poke holes at my statements, address the whole argument. I didn't mention the meaning of prophet as a word, I mentioned the prophet in the old testament. Stop using your strawmans here.

Except, once fucking more, preachers =/= prophets as we've been telling you multiple time. Prophets receive the direct revelation of God and speak on this behalf, they're far from being mere preachers; that is the exact meaning of the word in the old testament.
And please, don't try to play the fallacy bingo. I made no strawmen, just corrected your error.

Why do you just keep going on with a fallacy when it was pointed at? It's the second time you did it.
Should I tell you using the language you will understand? I can: I didn't fucking say the prophets didn't, but what I said was what Moses meant. Stop refuting something I never mentioned.

[Aelex]

Why do you just keep going on with a fallacy when it was pointed at? It's the second time you did it.
Should I tell you using the language you will understand? I can: I didn't fucking say the prophets didn't, but what I said was what Moses meant. Stop refuting something I never mentioned.

Once more, where is the fallacy? You said, lemme quote you :

No, a prophet in the old testament and new testament is just a preacher. There were many of those in the Roman Empire, a messenger is something else.

This is false. The word prophet never had the definition of "preacher", but always had the one of "one that reveal the words of God on His behalf".

And you said that in response to Jaz saying :

A prophet in the Old Testament is someone who reveals the words and will of God.

There is no fallacy here, only me calling you on your bullshit so don't try to back-pedal your way out of this shit.

[Jochizyd Republic]

Anyone go to Naqshbandi zikrs?

Yes actually. It's a good way of it.

I go to a Naqshbandi-Haqqani Tariqat affiliated Masjid. The Zikr services in that Order are quite good. Employing hadra from time to time. Which I think Most Muslims should attend at least once.