Islam/Muslim Discussion Thread ٢

[Herskerstad]

Take some friendly advice. Going down this route will not really accomplish anything.

Not a single flame in there.

Not so much about flaming as the direction that can take and the results which can come from it, hence the going down this route comment.

I have my doubts a Serbian-Anything Islam really debate would yield much more than bans left and right.

[Jochizyd Republic]

Not a single flame in there.

Not so much about flaming as the direction that can take and the results which can come from it, hence the going down this route comment.

I have my doubts a Serbian-Anything Islam really debate would yield much more than bans left and right.

Nobody is actually Serbian there.

They just worship Četniks and go "Remob Kebab! DEUS VULT Islam is the greatest threat we have ever faced and it is a cult of death. sandn*ggers. HHAHAHA xdddd"

[Kergstan]

Is to muslims in general acceptable the marriage of children or it happens only in remote areas? Just to know, i'll read about it more the next days

[Jochizyd Republic]

Is to muslims in general acceptable the marriage of children or it happens only in remote areas? Just to know, i'll read about it more the next days

mostly remote areas and Pakistan.

[Nusaresa]

Is to muslims in general acceptable the marriage of children or it happens only in remote areas? Just to know, i'll read about it more the next days

mostly remote areas and Pakistan.

To add, it happens in less educated and more impoverished areas (Muslim west Africa, Sahel, and Sahara south of the Maghreb). And Pakistan.

[Jochizyd Republic]

I have an interesting topic. Do those of you familiar with the Taiping Heavenly Kingdom think it was comparable to ISIS?

Personally, I think they were "Christian ISIS" in how they worked. But doctrinally, they were much more metaphysically and doctrinally "out there". than ISIS.

ISIS does have a weird messianic view about their Caliph and thinks things like The Shari'ah can only be obtained through the literal meaning of the Qur'an and Sunnah and the Classical Scholars were only partially "Muslim"(which is fairly standard Islamic Puritan talk) and far more radically, that the Madhabs and all known standards of fiqh are to be destroyed in favor of their caliph's itjihad.
But they are rooted in Core Islamic concepts and even Classical fiqh. Albeit perversions of it.

Hong Xiuquan, if I remember correctly, rejected trinitarianism and claimed himself the younger brother of Jesus (as). Adhering to a mishmash of literalistic Christianity, Chinese Ultranationalism, and his own insanity.

The Heavenly kingdom, if it has an Islamic equivalent, would probably be better compared to the Nation of Islam if it had a fully armed and functional military system (yikes).


I think this is relevant because of the subject of comparison of doctrine and the topic of "Islam is really a deth kvlt that has caused the most deaths in the yooniverse tbh senpai" seems to be popular with people here.

[Nusaresa]

I have an interesting topic. Do those of you familiar with the Taiping Heavenly Kingdom think it was comparable to ISIS?

Personally, I think they were "Christian ISIS" in how they worked. But doctrinally, they were much more metaphysically and doctrinally "out there". than ISIS.

ISIS does have a weird messianic view about their Caliph and thinks things like The Shari'ah can only be obtained through the literal meaning of the Qur'an and Sunnah and the Classical Scholars were only partially "Muslim"(which is fairly standard Islamic Puritan talk) and far more radically, that the Madhabs and all known standards of fiqh are to be destroyed in favor of their caliph's itjihad.
But they are rooted in Core Islamic concepts and even Classical fiqh. Albeit perversions of it.

Hong Xiuquan, if I remember correctly, rejected trinitarianism and claimed himself the younger brother of Jesus (as). Adhering to a mishmash of literalistic Christianity, Chinese Ultranationalism, and his own insanity.

The Heavenly kingdom, if it has an Islamic equivalent, would probably be better compared to the Nation of Islam if it had a fully armed and functional military system (yikes).


I think this is relevant because of the subject of comparison of doctrine and the topic of "Islam is really a deth kvlt that has caused the most deaths in the yooniverse tbh senpai" seems to be popular with people here.

I'm familiar with it. But as far as detail goes, not so much. I'd suppose they could be considered a Christian ISIS, but I'd also add to that it was a result of Western imperialism (that brought Christianity in the first place).

[Anollasia]

I would like everyone to have a blessed Day of Ashura. *offers some ashure*

[Jochizyd Republic]

Ya Husayn!

[El-Amin Caliphate]

I would like everyone to have a blessed Day of Ashura. *offers some ashure*

Jazakallah Khair, you too.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Ya Husayn!

May Allah bless Husayn (RA), Musa (AS), Muhammad (SAWS), and NuH (AS).
Ameen.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

I forgot it was 'Ashura

[El-Amin Caliphate]

I should've fasted today, even if it is optional...

[Anollasia]

I forgot it was 'Ashura

That's ok, we get caught up in life's current and so we forget things. I just remembered when I got home (looked at Wikipedia's home page).

[El-Amin Caliphate]

http://www.deccanchronicle.com/world/mi ... -2017.html
Thoughts? Got this from ummah.com

[Nusaresa]

http://www.deccanchronicle.com/world/middle-east/111016/after-modis-visit-first-hindu-temple-in-abu-dhabi-to-be-ready-by-end-of-2017.html
Thoughts? Got this from ummah.com

Well that's because there are a lot of Hindu Nepalis and Indians that work under slave like conditions in the Khaleeji states. No biggie. Unless *gasp* you're against such immigration and multiculturalism! o:

[Herskerstad]

I have an interesting topic. Do those of you familiar with the Taiping Heavenly Kingdom think it was comparable to ISIS?

Personally, I think they were "Christian ISIS" in how they worked. But doctrinally, they were much more metaphysically and doctrinally "out there". than ISIS.

ISIS does have a weird messianic view about their Caliph and thinks things like The Shari'ah can only be obtained through the literal meaning of the Qur'an and Sunnah and the Classical Scholars were only partially "Muslim"(which is fairly standard Islamic Puritan talk) and far more radically, that the Madhabs and all known standards of fiqh are to be destroyed in favor of their caliph's itjihad.
But they are rooted in Core Islamic concepts and even Classical fiqh. Albeit perversions of it.

Hong Xiuquan, if I remember correctly, rejected trinitarianism and claimed himself the younger brother of Jesus (as). Adhering to a mishmash of literalistic Christianity, Chinese Ultranationalism, and his own insanity.

The Heavenly kingdom, if it has an Islamic equivalent, would probably be better compared to the Nation of Islam if it had a fully armed and functional military system (yikes).


I think this is relevant because of the subject of comparison of doctrine and the topic of "Islam is really a deth kvlt that has caused the most deaths in the yooniverse tbh senpai" seems to be popular with people here.

Intrestingly, I am doing a paper on that very figure.

Hong Xiuquan's theology sadly is rather hard to dissect. There are both regional cultural applications to what exactly is meant by that, as well as a variety of influences ranging from Jesuit to baptist traditions which we know he was exposed towards, but for the most part aspects relating to claiming what was known as the heavenly kingdom, or it's mandate, has some deep rooted historical ties to China ever since the Han dynasty. It becomes actually exceptionally hard to establish what he means by the title, but I think the closest variety is that Hong, not being entirely of the servant of the false gods which the emperor, now the Qing dynasty, have assumed wrongly for, given that they are not favoured sons of God, but rather usurpers of the heavenly Kingdom and mere mortals. Hong on the other hand, being a favoured son of God, and not merely of your normal human class, but rather one destined for ruler-ship, holds some connection to said linage and therefor is the rightful inheritor of the mandate. There are many political ramifications with virtually every point of that title and it does not point towards necessarily a Unitarian take, as much as some odd, quasi dynastic ruler-ship take, but needless to say none of said implications got significant challenge and it would be really weird to see how the heavenly kingdom, had it survived, would have reacted against European Christianity.

Now, perhaps the most valid comparison they had to ISIS would be in their warfare, but that was in part due to propaganda which equated all the enemies, in particular Qing and interestingly westerners, as literal devils. It accounts for not merely the atrocities but the severity of them. Now, in the early stages the heavenly kingdom was winning the war, but for whatever reason seemed to stop after taking much of the more integral parts of central China, as if the Qing would not seek revenge which came in an equally bloody stage. But there's no doubting that humanitarian attribution, to their enemies, was not an established concept nor a welcomed one.

Interestingly there were some progressive aspects about their rule. It was the first one set out specifically to eradicate poverty. Removing traditions such as footbinding, temple fraud, making women more equal with men and indeed holding a more equal property, but I have little doubts that it would have deterriorated into a rather harsh society if they had won, but they were unable to make political consolidations which the Manchu's on the other hands were masters at, but, it really is impossible to say. ISIS however have no progressive qualities as far as being on the right side of history so I would not really compare that, but I am certain there would have been a brutal stage of iconoclasm, perhaps only rivalled by Mao who had fond things to say about Hong.

I will say that nothing points towards Hong being insane, but rather deteriorating in health altogether. Some sources indicated that he took to eating food that was cultivated from the earth, but not crops. Meaning likely mushrooms or other growth, that could attribute to such. But, as you mentioned, they hold no real visible Christian tenements in terms of proximity to original doctrines, so there is a lot of synchronisation elements at work. Whereas the nation of Islam, love them or hate them, are very well organized in terms of their direction and where they take it from.

But yes, a fascinating figure, but no Bismarck in terms of pressing advantages.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

http://www.deccanchronicle.com/world/middle-east/111016/after-modis-visit-first-hindu-temple-in-abu-dhabi-to-be-ready-by-end-of-2017.html
Thoughts? Got this from ummah.com

Well that's because there are a lot of Hindu Nepalis and Indians that work under slave like conditions in the Khaleeji states. No biggie. Unless *gasp* you're against such immigration and multiculturalism! o:

Heck no. I'm pro-immigration-for-refugees to the point that a nation should allow as much refugees as the budget will allow.
But yeah, the ME has to change its foreign workers standards.

[Herskerstad]

Well that's because there are a lot of Hindu Nepalis and Indians that work under slave like conditions in the Khaleeji states. No biggie. Unless *gasp* you're against such immigration and multiculturalism! o:

Heck no. I'm pro-immigration-for-refugees to the point that a nation should allow as much refugees as the budget will allow.
But yeah, the ME has to change its foreign workers standards.

Not really refugees from India though, even though they are conscripted for de-facto slave labour.

[Jochizyd Republic]

I have an interesting topic. Do those of you familiar with the Taiping Heavenly Kingdom think it was comparable to ISIS?

Personally, I think they were "Christian ISIS" in how they worked. But doctrinally, they were much more metaphysically and doctrinally "out there". than ISIS.

ISIS does have a weird messianic view about their Caliph and thinks things like The Shari'ah can only be obtained through the literal meaning of the Qur'an and Sunnah and the Classical Scholars were only partially "Muslim"(which is fairly standard Islamic Puritan talk) and far more radically, that the Madhabs and all known standards of fiqh are to be destroyed in favor of their caliph's itjihad.
But they are rooted in Core Islamic concepts and even Classical fiqh. Albeit perversions of it.

Hong Xiuquan, if I remember correctly, rejected trinitarianism and claimed himself the younger brother of Jesus (as). Adhering to a mishmash of literalistic Christianity, Chinese Ultranationalism, and his own insanity.

The Heavenly kingdom, if it has an Islamic equivalent, would probably be better compared to the Nation of Islam if it had a fully armed and functional military system (yikes).


I think this is relevant because of the subject of comparison of doctrine and the topic of "Islam is really a deth kvlt that has caused the most deaths in the yooniverse tbh senpai" seems to be popular with people here.

Intrestingly, I am doing a paper on that very figure.

Hong Xiuquan's theology sadly is rather hard to dissect. There are both regional cultural applications to what exactly is meant by that, as well as a variety of influences ranging from Jesuit to baptist traditions which we know he was exposed towards, but for the most part aspects relating to claiming what was known as the heavenly kingdom, or it's mandate, has some deep rooted historical ties to China ever since the Han dynasty. It becomes actually exceptionally hard to establish what he means by the title, but I think the closest variety is that Hong, not being entirely of the servant of the false gods which the emperor, now the Qing dynasty, have assumed wrongly for, given that they are not favoured sons of God, but rather usurpers of the heavenly Kingdom and mere mortals. Hong on the other hand, being a favoured son of God, and not merely of your normal human class, but rather one destined for ruler-ship, holds some connection to said linage and therefor is the rightful inheritor of the mandate. There are many political ramifications with virtually every point of that title and it does not point towards necessarily a Unitarian take, as much as some odd, quasi dynastic ruler-ship take, but needless to say none of said implications got significant challenge and it would be really weird to see how the heavenly kingdom, had it survived, would have reacted against European Christianity.

Now, perhaps the most valid comparison they had to ISIS would be in their warfare, but that was in part due to propaganda which equated all the enemies, in particular Qing and interestingly westerners, as literal devils. It accounts for not merely the atrocities but the severity of them. Now, in the early stages the heavenly kingdom was winning the war, but for whatever reason seemed to stop after taking much of the more integral parts of central China, as if the Qing would not seek revenge which came in an equally bloody stage. But there's no doubting that humanitarian attribution, to their enemies, was not an established concept nor a welcomed one.

Interestingly there were some progressive aspects about their rule. It was the first one set out specifically to eradicate poverty. Removing traditions such as footbinding, temple fraud, making women more equal with men and indeed holding a more equal property, but I have little doubts that it would have deterriorated into a rather harsh society if they had won, but they were unable to make political consolidations which the Manchu's on the other hands were masters at, but, it really is impossible to say. ISIS however have no progressive qualities as far as being on the right side of history so I would not really compare that, but I am certain there would have been a brutal stage of iconoclasm, perhaps only rivalled by Mao who had fond things to say about Hong.

I will say that nothing points towards Hong being insane, but rather deteriorating in health altogether. Some sources indicated that he took to eating food that was cultivated from the earth, but not crops. Meaning likely mushrooms or other growth, that could attribute to such. But, as you mentioned, they hold no real visible Christian tenements in terms of proximity to original doctrines, so there is a lot of synchronisation elements at work. Whereas the nation of Islam, love them or hate them, are very well organized in terms of their direction and where they take it from.

But yes, a fascinating figure, but no Bismarck in terms of pressing advantages.

You don't think the drugs damaged his brain even a little?

And what do you mean his theology is hard to dissect? I mean, it's esoteric and difficult to grasp in it's full, but it's clear that the basics included scriptural literalism and a bizarre interpretation of the trinity.

[Dwarf Terrace-9 (Ancient)]

[quote="Dwarf Terrace-9";p="30105592"]"Why does Islam have a disproportionate amount of radical extremists in comparison to all other major religions despite being a 'Religion of Peace'?" Reposting because it was lost/ignored.

Also for those that believe that Sharia Law should be upheld what about the parts of it that view women as lesser? Is this a true interpretation or is it simply regurgitated?

[Kubumba Tribe]

Also for those that believe that Sharia Law should be upheld what about the parts of it that view women as lesser?

Like?

[Jochizyd Republic]

"Why does Islam have a disproportionate amount of radical extremists in comparison to all other major religions despite being a 'Religion of Peace'?" Reposting because it was lost/ignored.

Also for those that believe that Sharia Law should be upheld what about the parts of it that view women as lesser? Is this a true interpretation or is it simply regurgitated?

Because it's the most recent religion to be hit with a huge puritan movement.

Gender roles =/= misogyny. We have trivialized child rearing and childbirth and feminine strengths to the point where it's killing women.

Hamza Yusuf did a very good speech on the more actually women hating applications of puritan shariah.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_JOiYHFh24
Abdal Hakim Murad has as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNGKW43h_Dw

and Schuon has written very good things on why feminism is terrible and the ideal of the self realization of women
http://www.frithjof-schuon.com/fem-feminisme-engl.htm

[Hindia Belanda]

I also forgot it was Ashura only found out moments ago as I was skimming through this thread.

Ya Hussain!

[Unpredictable Galaxy]

Sorry if I'm interrupting or causing a diversion in a discussion, but I was curious if anyone here has read The True American: Murder and Mercy in Texas by Anand Gridharadas? My entire Freshman class in college had to read it and I thought it was an absolutely phenomenal read; a complete account of a real event and it was eye opening for me. The author, Anand, and the Protagonist named Rais also spoke at my college, and those two are officially my idols.

For some context, it's an account of a man by the named of Rais Bhuiyan and his life when he moved from Bangladesh to Texas in the United States (side note, he is Muslim.) After 9/11, a man by the name of Mark Stroman shot him in the face (and killed two others) for being dark skinned/Muslim. Mark was sentence to death afterwards. The story continues about Rais, the man Mark shot, trying to save his life and get him off death row based on Islamic mercy and forgiveness.

If you have read it, I'd like to talk about it. If not, I HIGHLY recommend it; it's well written and really opens perspectives (it did for me, at least, as a non-Muslim).