Islam/Muslim Discussion Thread ٢

[FelrikTheDeleted]

It still contributes to society, whether the contribution be a good thing or a bad thing.

Yeah, but they're acting like she's doing a good thing.

Anyway, if we're counting bad contributions. Terrorists and Gangs "contribute" to society.

It's a stupid way to explain it.

That doesn't change that they are contributing to society, it just happens to be a bad contribution.

[Novjistrania]

Bektashi.

[Jochizyd Republic]

Bektashi.

Welcome to the thread, brother.

As-salaam aleykum

[Novjistrania]

Bektashi.

Welcome to the thread, brother.

As-salaam aleykum

Wa'alaikum and shukran.

[Jochizyd Republic]

Welcome to the thread, brother.

As-salaam aleykum

Wa'alaikum and shukran.

I've been interested in the Bektashi Order. Having a few Brothers being a part of it. Been meaning to read the Makalat of Hajji Bektash. And some writings of Baba Rexheb.

Out of curiosity, Are there many English speaking Sheikhs of the order?

[Novjistrania]

Wa'alaikum and shukran.

I've been interested in the Bektashi Order. Having a few Brothers being a part of it. Been meaning to read the Makalat of Hajji Bektash. And some writings of Baba Rexheb.

Out of curiosity, Are there many English speaking Sheikhs of the order?

Not sure.

[Jochizyd Republic]

I've been interested in the Bektashi Order. Having a few Brothers being a part of it. Been meaning to read the Makalat of Hajji Bektash. And some writings of Baba Rexheb.

Out of curiosity, Are there many English speaking Sheikhs of the order?

Not sure.

Most probably speak Albanian. Eh. Wouldn't be the hardest language I've tried to learn

[Bhikkustan]

Not sure.

Most probably speak Albanian. Eh. Wouldn't be the hardest language I've tried to learn

What would?

[Novjistrania]

Not sure.

Most probably speak Albanian. Eh. Wouldn't be the hardest language I've tried to learn

Okay try and pronounce
'Kundërzhurmëkrijuesabërësave' correctly.

[Herskerstad]

Most probably speak Albanian. Eh. Wouldn't be the hardest language I've tried to learn

Okay try and pronounce
'Kundërzhurmëkrijuesabërësave' correctly.

This is what I get for attempting to make Germans say "The Sheikh's sixth squirrel"

[Seylland]

Most probably speak Albanian. Eh. Wouldn't be the hardest language I've tried to learn

Okay try and pronounce
'Kundërzhurmëkrijuesabërësave' correctly.

What's up with European languages and these hyper-large words.

My mouth doesn't go that fast.

[Herskerstad]

Okay try and pronounce
'Kundërzhurmëkrijuesabërësave' correctly.

What's up with European languages and these hyper-large words.

My mouth doesn't go that fast.

Try Norwegian.

Minoritetsladningsbærerdiffusjonskoeffisientmålingsapparatur

[Seylland]

What's up with European languages and these hyper-large words.

My mouth doesn't go that fast.

Try Norwegian.

Minoritetsladningsbærerdiffusjonskoeffisientmålingsapparatur

Well the Uralics one up even that.

do have mercy

[Herskerstad]

Try Norwegian.

Minoritetsladningsbærerdiffusjonskoeffisientmålingsapparatur

Well the Uralics one up even that.

do have mercy

Try Devanagari, and yes, it's one word, sorta.

nirantarāndhakārita-digantara-kandaladamanda-sudhārasa-bindu-sāndratara-ghanāghana-vr̥nda-sandehakara-syandamāna-makaranda-bindu-bandhuratara-mākanda-taru-kula-talpa-kalpa-mr̥dula-sikatā-jāla-jaṭila-mūla-tala-maruvaka-miladalaghu-laghu-laya-kalita-ramaṇīya-pānīya-śālikā-bālikā-karāra-vinda-galantikā-galadelā-lavaṅga-pāṭala-ghanasāra-kastūrikātisaurabha-medura-laghutara-madhura-śītalatara-saliladhārā-nirākariṣṇu-tadīya-vimala-vilocana-mayūkha-rekhāpasārita-pipāsāyāsa-pathika-lokān

[Jochizyd Republic]

Most probably speak Albanian. Eh. Wouldn't be the hardest language I've tried to learn

Okay try and pronounce
'Kundërzhurmëkrijuesabërësave' correctly.

I probably blew it.

[Jochizyd Republic]

Most probably speak Albanian. Eh. Wouldn't be the hardest language I've tried to learn

What would?

Mandarin. Mostly because the High School instructor for it was out of her fucking mind.

Also, the language is difficult to read when written. Memorizing individual characters was not my strong suit.

[Bhikkustan]

Well the Uralics one up even that.

do have mercy

Try Devanagari, and yes, it's one word, sorta.

nirantarāndhakārita-digantara-kandaladamanda-sudhārasa-bindu-sāndratara-ghanāghana-vr̥nda-sandehakara-syandamāna-makaranda-bindu-bandhuratara-mākanda-taru-kula-talpa-kalpa-mr̥dula-sikatā-jāla-jaṭila-mūla-tala-maruvaka-miladalaghu-laghu-laya-kalita-ramaṇīya-pānīya-śālikā-bālikā-karāra-vinda-galantikā-galadelā-lavaṅga-pāṭala-ghanasāra-kastūrikātisaurabha-medura-laghutara-madhura-śītalatara-saliladhārā-nirākariṣṇu-tadīya-vimala-vilocana-mayūkha-rekhāpasārita-pipāsāyāsa-pathika-lokān

Can't really compete, but this is Maori:
Taumatawhakatangi­hangakoauauotamatea­urehaeaturipukakapikimaunga­horonukupokaiwhen­uakitanatahu

[Jochizyd Republic]

Assalaamu Aleykum

What is everyones perspective here on Husayn and the plight of the Ahlu Bayt in General?

Personally, I think his dying for what was right and the persecution of the Ahlu Bayt is one of the largest tragedies in Islamic History. The Ahlu Bayt deserve to be honored by all Muslims. And the lessons they taught included in any legitimate Sunni Creed

http://www.alsunna.org/Sunni-Love-to-Ah ... #gsc.tab=0

[Jochizyd Republic]

And out of curiosity, what are non Muslim's perceptions of the Family of the Prophet?

And why are Ali (ra) and others left out of the criticism while Muhammad (SAW) gets the brunt of it? Even though they conducted themselves in the same way.

[Herskerstad]

And out of curiosity, what are non Muslim's perceptions of the Family of the Prophet?

And why are Ali (ra) and others left out of the criticism while Muhammad (SAW) gets the brunt of it? Even though they conducted themselves in the same way.

Rather extensive family we are talking about here, would we even talk too much about the pagan side of it? But I can at least answer one of the queries.

The reason Muhammad gets roasted in significant proportion to the rest of his family combined, is not because so much that the rest of his family, in particular if one includes the later Caliphs, did not have significant flaws, it is rather the fact that lets say, hypothetically, that Uthman was a complete degenerate with no moral positives to be found. Should such have been the case, it would, short of the five rightly guided caliphs section which is minor when one looks at the overarching issues, not be of 'that' significant importance to Islam as a moral measurement. Again, should Uthman be a degenerate then that would not disprove or even altogether damage Islam that much. Should Muhammad however, which I do indeed believe by certain acts prove to be more than merely faulty, then it would remove any application of Islam as a moral measurement. In short, it becomes something of a side issue.

Now we know of course the issue of succession is rather important at least to the historical development of Islam and there are all manner of emotions mixed into that with certain narratives which has blown up in this thread before. We've had a couple of militant Shia's with pretty strong feelings about Aisha for example and it goes into a rather significant debate of hereditary vs interest based succession, as the Ummah was rather central to the exchange and the Ummah itself, in it's primitive form, was something like a council of important figures across all the fields of the early Arab society. Incidentally Ali was one of the more interesting figures in Islamic history at least by my own metric, but he is a rather hard chap to judge at times in part due to some odd narrations.

[Herskerstad]

Try Devanagari, and yes, it's one word, sorta.

nirantarāndhakārita-digantara-kandaladamanda-sudhārasa-bindu-sāndratara-ghanāghana-vr̥nda-sandehakara-syandamāna-makaranda-bindu-bandhuratara-mākanda-taru-kula-talpa-kalpa-mr̥dula-sikatā-jāla-jaṭila-mūla-tala-maruvaka-miladalaghu-laghu-laya-kalita-ramaṇīya-pānīya-śālikā-bālikā-karāra-vinda-galantikā-galadelā-lavaṅga-pāṭala-ghanasāra-kastūrikātisaurabha-medura-laghutara-madhura-śītalatara-saliladhārā-nirākariṣṇu-tadīya-vimala-vilocana-mayūkha-rekhāpasārita-pipāsāyāsa-pathika-lokān

Can't really compete, but this is Maori:
Taumatawhakatangi­hangakoauauotamatea­urehaeaturipukakapikimaunga­horonukupokaiwhen­uakitanatahu

Yeah, then again you also have Welch which. . . yeah, should never have gotten a license to name their own train stations.

[Jochizyd Republic]

Rather extensive family we are talking about here, would we even talk too much about the pagan side of it? But I can at least answer one of the queries.

The reason Muhammad gets roasted in significant proportion to the rest of his family combined, is not because so much that the rest of his family, in particular if one includes the later Caliphs, did not have significant flaws, it is rather the fact that lets say, hypothetically, that Uthman was a complete degenerate with no moral positives to be found. Should such have been the case, it would, short of the five rightly guided caliphs section which is minor when one looks at the overarching issues, not be of 'that' significant importance to Islam as a moral measurement. Again, should Uthman be a degenerate then that would not disprove or even altogether damage Islam that much. Should Muhammad however, which I do indeed believe by certain acts prove to be more than merely faulty, then it would remove any application of Islam as a moral measurement. In short, it becomes something of a side issue.

Okay. I think it more has to do with many critics of Islam having scant knowledge of Islam or being degenerates themselves. But okay.

And the Pagan Quraysh are obviously enough, not honored by any Muslim.

Now we know of course the issue of succession is rather important at least to the historical development of Islam and there are all manner of emotions mixed into that with certain narratives which has blown up in this thread before. We've had a couple of militant Shia's with pretty strong feelings about Aisha for example and it goes into a rather significant debate of hereditary vs interest based succession, as the Ummah was rather central to the exchange and the Ummah itself, in it's primitive form, was something like a council of important figures across all the fields of the early Arab society. Incidentally Ali was one of the more interesting figures in Islamic history at least by my own metric, but he is a rather hard chap to judge at times in part due to some odd narrations.

Not even Shi'a believe that all the sermons in the Peak of Eloquence and other books can be attributed to Ali.

And the succession was not interest vs hereditary based because Shi'a for the most part assume that the immediate members of the Prophet's Family would inherently follow his Sunna because of their apparent infallibility.

[Herskerstad]

Rather extensive family we are talking about here, would we even talk too much about the pagan side of it? But I can at least answer one of the queries.

The reason Muhammad gets roasted in significant proportion to the rest of his family combined, is not because so much that the rest of his family, in particular if one includes the later Caliphs, did not have significant flaws, it is rather the fact that lets say, hypothetically, that Uthman was a complete degenerate with no moral positives to be found. Should such have been the case, it would, short of the five rightly guided caliphs section which is minor when one looks at the overarching issues, not be of 'that' significant importance to Islam as a moral measurement. Again, should Uthman be a degenerate then that would not disprove or even altogether damage Islam that much. Should Muhammad however, which I do indeed believe by certain acts prove to be more than merely faulty, then it would remove any application of Islam as a moral measurement. In short, it becomes something of a side issue.

Okay. I think it more has to do with many critics of Islam having scant knowledge of Islam or being degenerates themselves. But okay.

And the Pagan Quraysh are obviously enough, not honored by any Muslim.

Now, I've been harsh against friends of mine who have been critiquing Islam at many points before as, just like many other situations, it becomes an all out assault on everything at the cost of true discernment.

I myself admire many muslims in regards to their zeal, and self control. Now, the worst lot aside and there is a problem there in the Islamic sphere, there are traditions of purity and family, in particular the latter which many Christians nowadays are completely botching, which are admirable on an almost universal level, but yes, there is a problem with Islamic critique in the sense that some people are not willing to 'understand' the other side. And understanding an entire side from essentially a subject-side, rather than an object side, takes true wisdom and a great deal of time. I am not even at the stage where I want to get into the deeper parts of ecumenism, but I want to do it, when that time comes, from a point of understanding and not just facts. I doubt there will be any real advancements short of that with the possible exception of modern introductions to exegesis, hermenutics and textual criticism, which follow their own special laws and impact such matters in their own particular ways.

[Jochizyd Republic]

Okay. I think it more has to do with many critics of Islam having scant knowledge of Islam or being degenerates themselves. But okay.

And the Pagan Quraysh are obviously enough, not honored by any Muslim.

Now, I've been harsh against friends of mine who have been critiquing Islam at many points before as, just like many other situations, it becomes an all out assault on everything at the cost of true discernment.

I myself admire many muslims in regards to their zeal, and self control. Now, the worst lot aside and there is a problem there in the Islamic sphere, there are traditions of purity and family, in particular the latter which many Christians nowadays are completely botching, which are admirable on an almost universal level, but yes, there is a problem with Islamic critique in the sense that some people are not willing to 'understand' the other side. And understanding an entire side from essentially a subject-side, rather than an object side, takes true wisdom and a great deal of time. I am not even at the stage where I want to get into the deeper parts of ecumenism, but I want to do it, when that time comes, from a point of understanding and not just facts. I doubt there will be any real advancements short of that with the possible exception of modern introductions to exegesis, hermenutics and textual criticism, which follow their own special laws and impact such matters in their own particular ways.

What other side are Muslims not understanding. Other Muslims? Critics of Islam?

[Herskerstad]

Now, I've been harsh against friends of mine who have been critiquing Islam at many points before as, just like many other situations, it becomes an all out assault on everything at the cost of true discernment.

I myself admire many muslims in regards to their zeal, and self control. Now, the worst lot aside and there is a problem there in the Islamic sphere, there are traditions of purity and family, in particular the latter which many Christians nowadays are completely botching, which are admirable on an almost universal level, but yes, there is a problem with Islamic critique in the sense that some people are not willing to 'understand' the other side. And understanding an entire side from essentially a subject-side, rather than an object side, takes true wisdom and a great deal of time. I am not even at the stage where I want to get into the deeper parts of ecumenism, but I want to do it, when that time comes, from a point of understanding and not just facts. I doubt there will be any real advancements short of that with the possible exception of modern introductions to exegesis, hermenutics and textual criticism, which follow their own special laws and impact such matters in their own particular ways.

What other side are Muslims not understanding. Other Muslims? Critics of Islam?

It was a critique of the critics of Islam. At least the ones who engage from a subject-object side or go all out with little discernment.