Islam/Muslim Discussion Thread ٢

[Jochizyd Republic]

A minority within Hinduism. Yes.

Hinduism is still a major religion which allows that practice (The Indian government however, does not).

With that one point, your argument already falters.

You can't win this, this isn't 600 AD, your arguments don't hold up today.

It's C U R R E N T Y E A R

[Conserative Morality]

Hinduism is still a major religion which allows that practice (The Indian government however, does not).

Notably as a holdover from British rule. Like Meiji Japan making homosexuality illegal to impress the Western powers on how civilized they were when they were fuckin' like gay rabbits only a few years before.

[Nioya]

What things do you think the Christian tradition could adopt from the islamic tradition that could improve it?

[Conserative Morality]

Well, yes. Hinduism is even less monolithic than Islam. And definitely more Ideologically diverse.

However, within it, disapproval of homosexuality seems to be the majority position at the moment.

A position that lacks strength outside of culturally regressive areas of India and has little theological basis accepted across the religion, unlike Christianity, Judaism, and Islam's primary holy texts.

[Jochizyd Republic]

Hinduism is still a major religion which allows that practice (The Indian government however, does not).

Notably as a holdover from British rule. Like Meiji Japan making homosexuality illegal to impress the Western powers on how civilized they were when they were fuckin' like gay rabbits only a few years before.

That was partially an extreme form of misogyny.

Probably nothing you would want to promote.

[New haven america]

Translation: "My religion says it's not okay, therefore, every major religion ever hates it."

No. Every major religion condemns it.

Christianity, Obviously enough does. As does Islam.

Judaism Condemns it. Hinduism condemns it. Zoroastrianism condemns it.

Viewing homosexuality as a good thing is extremely rare in religion.

Islam also views things like rape as the victim's fault, and the only way to correct the "crime" is to marry the rapist.

Christianity and Judaism used to, however, their followers grew past that belief.

Things change.

[Conserative Morality]

It's C U R R E N T Y E A R

It's 1220 AD, your arguments don't hold up anymore.

[Arachno-Satinism]

One of these is not like the other. It is a mistake to speak of Hinduism as if it possesses an unifying theological view, let alone singular, monolithic moral code as existent in Abrahamic faiths and their predecessor Zoroastrianism.

Well, yes. Hinduism is even less monolithic than Islam. And definitely more Ideologically diverse.

However, within it, disapproval of homosexuality seems to be the majority position at the moment.

Most of Hindus of today are opposed to LGBT rights, primarily thanks to British imperialism and to a lesser extent Islamic conquests, not some idea that the Perennial Culture is opposed to homosexuality and should be kept as so.

[Jochizyd Republic]

No. Every major religion condemns it.

Christianity, Obviously enough does. As does Islam.

Judaism Condemns it. Hinduism condemns it. Zoroastrianism condemns it.

Viewing homosexuality as a good thing is extremely rare in religion.

Islam also views things like rape as the victim's fault, and the only way to correct the "crime" is to marry the rapist.

Christianity and Judaism used to, however, their followers grew past that belief.

Things change.

This isn't twitter, Mr. Harris.

[Conserative Morality]

That was partially an extreme form of misogyny.

... yeah, I'm thinking you don't understand any of the three major strains of Japanese historical practice of homosexuality.

[Jochizyd Republic]

It's C U R R E N T Y E A R

It's 1220 AD, your arguments don't hold up anymore.

I came here to laugh at you guys. Not to be sad.

[New haven america]

Hinduism is still a major religion which allows that practice (The Indian government however, does not).

Notably as a holdover from British rule. Like Meiji Japan making homosexuality illegal to impress the Western powers on how civilized they were when they were fuckin' like gay rabbits only a few years before.

Yep, I know, and I think India should keep that law.

I find it interesting that some of Japan's most famous samurai/leaders were gay/bi. Didn't Tokugawa (Or someone working with him) have a gay lover at one point?

[Jochizyd Republic]

That was partially an extreme form of misogyny.

... yeah, I'm thinking you don't understand any of the three major strains of Japanese historical practice of homosexuality.

You're right. Some were mainly pedastry. My bad.

Of course it wasn't all of it throughout Japan's history. But it was definitely a part of the practice that can't really be ignored.

[New haven america]

Islam also views things like rape as the victim's fault, and the only way to correct the "crime" is to marry the rapist.

Christianity and Judaism used to, however, their followers grew past that belief.

Things change.

This isn't twitter, Mr. Harris.

No, this is NS, I'm glad you're able to understand that.

Now are you gonna provide any rebuttal that some religions have terrible rules/views that need to be changed? Or do you support keeping with every single tradition and rule of a religion?

[Arachno-Satinism]

Islam also views things like rape as the victim's fault, and the only way to correct the "crime" is to marry the rapist.

Christianity and Judaism used to, however, their followers grew past that belief.

Things change.

This isn't twitter, Mr. Harris.

Not seeing any rebuttal to any assertion that things do change and that many past traditions are disgusting.

[Conserative Morality]

Yep, I know, and I think India should keep that law.

I find it interesting that some of Japan's most famous samurai/leaders were gay/bi. Didn't Tokugawa (Or someone working with him) have a gay lover at one point?

Dunno about Tokugawa Ieyusu, but Oda Nobunaga famously committed suicide with his younger lover after being mortally wounded.

[Conserative Morality]

You're right. Some were mainly pedastry. My bad.

Of course it wasn't all of it throughout Japan's history. But it was definitely a part of the practice that can't really be ignored.

I'm not ignoring it, because I'm not arguing the morality of any of the three. I'm arguing the religious and cultural acceptability of it; of which they were largely both, and not founded on misogyny, despite the existence of misogyny in Japanese society.

[New haven america]

Yep, I know, and I think India should keep that law.

I find it interesting that some of Japan's most famous samurai/leaders were gay/bi. Didn't Tokugawa (Or someone working with him) have a gay lover at one point?

Dunno about Tokugawa Ieyusu, but Oda Nobunaga famously committed suicide with his younger lover after being mortally wounded.

Yeah, I remember that story, quite interesting.

I might have to look around for stories of Tokugawa, I swear there was some story/historical document that said he had a gay lover. Eh, I might be wrong though.

[Herskerstad]

It's C U R R E N T Y E A R

It's 1220 AD, your arguments don't hold up anymore.

1162 or 1227 on the actual AD. Neither could advance by as much as 1220 years to reach the present moment unless a different metric of time was used.

[Jochizyd Republic]

This isn't twitter, Mr. Harris.

Not seeing any rebuttal to any assertion that things do change and that many past traditions are disgusting.

Typical Liberal understanding of what I mean by Tradition.

Or maybe just typical of you.

I don't view Tradition as "anything that's old" any more than modernists thing modernist values are "anything currently being practiced."
I mean as something closer to the unity of the great ancient religions. The facets within them that value mysticism and esotericism while balancing it with the Laws of the Divine.

Knowing how liberals are, I can't expect any of you to understand that. As you all mock and harass the people that don't bow to your ultraliberal/ultramodern agenda.
Makes me really give this whole "cultural marxist" concept some thought.

[Conserative Morality]

Typical Liberal understanding of what I mean by Tradition.

Or maybe just typical of you.

I don't view Tradition as "anything that's old" any more than modernists thing modernist values are "anything currently being practiced."
I mean as something closer to the unity of the great ancient religions. The facets within them that value mysticism and esotericism while balancing it with the Laws of the Divine.

Knowing how liberals are, I can't expect the likes of any of you to understand that. As you all mock and kill the people that don't bow to your ultraliberal/ultramodern agenda.
Makes me really give this whole "cultural marxist" concept some thought.

TIL it's liberals who are killing people for their views.

[White Chrobatia]

Not seeing any rebuttal to any assertion that things do change and that many past traditions are disgusting.

Typical Liberal understanding of what I mean by Tradition.

Or maybe just typical of you.

I don't view Tradition as "anything that's old" any more than modernists thing modernist values are "anything currently being practiced."
I mean as something closer to the unity of the great ancient religions. The facets within them that value mysticism and esotericism while balancing it with the Laws of the Divine.

Knowing how liberals are, I can't expect the likes of any of you to understand that. As you all mock and kill the people that don't bow to your ultraliberal/ultramodern agenda.
Makes me really give this whole "cultural marxist" concept some thought.

hwhat

[Jochizyd Republic]

Typical Liberal understanding of what I mean by Tradition.

Or maybe just typical of you.

I don't view Tradition as "anything that's old" any more than modernists thing modernist values are "anything currently being practiced."
I mean as something closer to the unity of the great ancient religions. The facets within them that value mysticism and esotericism while balancing it with the Laws of the Divine.

Knowing how liberals are, I can't expect the likes of any of you to understand that. As you all mock and kill the people that don't bow to your ultraliberal/ultramodern agenda.
Makes me really give this whole "cultural marxist" concept some thought.

TIL it's liberals who are killing people for their views.

You guys turn into communists when you don't get your way.

And the founding fathers of Modern Liberalism in the French Revolution showed their true colors and the ultimate outcome of "progressivism".

[Conserative Morality]

Yeah, I remember that story, quite interesting.

I might have to look around for stories of Tokugawa, I swear there was some story/historical document that said he had a gay lover. Eh, I might be wrong though.

Shudo in the Samurai class was pretty ubiquitous for a while. I wouldn't be surprised.

[Conserative Morality]

You guys turn into communists when you don't get your way.

It's funny, because both us and commies would dispute that for various reasons. One of the most prominent being that liberalism and communism share basically no tenets. Just ask UMN.

And the founding fathers of Modern Liberalism in the French Revolution showed their true colors and the ultimate outcome of "progressivism".

The change of the face of an entire continent and freedom?