Islam/Muslim Discussion Thread ٢

[Conserative Morality]

There is no major religion that says homosexuality is okay.

Religion isn't about following what you want. It really isn't.

Liberals and other types flood every religious discussion with this crap. Give it up. No major religion will ever accept homosexuality, drugs, adultery, or whatever else you want people to do.

Translation: "My religion says it's not okay, therefore, every major religion ever hates it."

[Herskerstad]

Sometimes, incidentally, yes.

Though in the historic model it seems as if the four witnesses has been more of a demand for defence than a prosecution.

Even so. Adultery was only punished by death once in the History of the entire Ottoman Empire.

And similarly few times in the Abbasids.

In the Time Of the Salaf, a Man was convicted. After the first stone struck him, he ran. And Umar (ra) ordered him to be let go. Alhamdulillah.

Even if the requirements are met. Mercy is practically proscribed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TxNntu2DoM

It's far more lenient than what people who cheat on their spouses deserve.

The problem of course with records of such, in particular in a nation as subject to regional autonomy as the Ottoman Empire, is of course the reporting of such. By human nature it would be unthinkable, regardless of cultural stigma, to have one case of adultery in such a lengthy empire, and among the more Seljuk-heavy areas with a more fundamentalist mindset you can be certain that incidents would be dealt with quite severely.

Human sexuality is a rather rancorous beast, I recall a cleric not too far back who exhaled the virtues of Pakistan, siting similar stats, was reduced to a fury once the google results for searches on zoophelic porn was revealed to have his nation among the highest per capita searchers for it. I am not making the argument that somehow the religion or even people are predispositioned towards abnormalities, but that human sexual conduct generally, historically, reacts in fair frequency particularly bad to restrictions across almost all schools, even those seeking chastity as a certain church will have to admit. While the possibility of a legal system not seeking to carry out a punishment due to it not furthering society is entirely within possibility, there is no doubt that some satisfaction, if even on a local level, would in instances be reached.

And now that we have DNA testing, in the instances which it would be beyond dispute, would you find stonings or executions to be a fitting response to adulterers?

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Your earlier claim was that in no religion is it okay, and I'm showing you that in at least one it can be interpreted as such. IB further showed this, with monks being encouraged to have relationships with one another so long as no actual sex occurs.

(By the way, thanks for chiming in IB )

Not a problem I like stalking this thread due to my intrest in Islam

Awww, thx.
May Allah (SWT) reward you (I know Buddhism doesn't really teach a supreme being, but I can't say "May Buddha reward you". I hope you understand <:))

[Herskerstad]

In the Islamic context it becomes all the more muddled when one includes the schools of jurisprudence, local traditions, and generally dispensation of Hudud crimes in modern times.

Of course, just wanted to add a Buddhist input to the debate, if you don't mind

Oh it's entirely within merit, given that there is no real living example of a surviving Buddhist discussion thread I find the change refreshing.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

There is no major religion that says homosexuality is okay.

Religion isn't about following what you want. It really isn't.

Liberals and other types flood every religious discussion with this crap. Give it up. No major religion will ever accept homosexuality, drugs, adultery, or whatever else you want people to do.

Translation: "My religion says it's not okay, therefore, every major religion ever hates it."

Except it's not just Al-Islam.

[Internationalist Bastard]

Not a problem I like stalking this thread due to my intrest in Islam

Awww, thx.
May Allah (SWT) reward you (I know Buddhism doesn't really teach a supreme being, but I can't say "May Buddha reward you". I hope you understand <:))

Oh no it's fine, I'm a Tengri Buddhist, which means one of my core beliefs is basically anybody could be right, so don't get uppity about it.
So thank you, and Tengri Khan smile on you

[El-Amin Caliphate]

And now that we have DNA testing, in the instances which it would be beyond dispute, would you find stonings or executions to be a fitting response to adulterers?

Nope.

[Conserative Morality]

Except it's not just Al-Islam.

*sects of Islam.

The little desert religions of the Middle East (Judaism, Zoroastrianism, and religions derived from them) are the biggest ones that have had majority opinions against homosexuality from the start.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Except it's not just Al-Islam.

*sects of Islam.

The little desert religions of the Middle East (Judaism, Zoroastrianism, and religions derived from them) are the biggest ones that have had majority opinions against homosexuality from the start.

You had to speak of them like that because...?
And what's the top part for?

[Herskerstad]

And now that we have DNA testing, in the instances which it would be beyond dispute, would you find stonings or executions to be a fitting response to adulterers?

Nope.

Was asking Joch, but since you want to join in. 100 Lashes?

[New haven america]

Does it hurt/cause harm to anyone or society in general?

No? Then it's fine.

ALso, being LGBT isn't a "lifestyle", being straight isn't a lifestyle, being gay isn't a lifestyle.

Both are sexual lifestyles. Straight is the correct one.

No, they're not. Lifestyles are something you choose, you can't choose what your sexuality, it's all based off of genetic and environmental factors.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Nope.

Was asking Joch, but since you want to join in. 100 Lashes?

Yes.

[Conserative Morality]

You had to speak of them like that because...?

Mostly to emphasize that they aren't the end-all be-all of human religion, even before the modern day; even in Europe and the near east.

And what's the top part for?

A correction. There are sects of Islam that accept various things Jochi complained about. You might regard them as incorrect, heretical, or outright blasphemous, but they do exist, and they probably see you in a similar light.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Both are sexual lifestyles. Straight is the correct one.

No, they're not. Lifestyles are something you choose, you can't choose what your sexuality, it's all based off of genetic and environmental factors.

Yes, you can.
And genes? That's dicey. Environmental factors (do you mean Human environment, or natural?)? Yes.

[White Chrobatia]

Was asking Joch, but since you want to join in. 100 Lashes?

Yes.

What's the point of being good if there's no free will to do evil?

The reward for being good is, at least in your opinion, to be received into paradise after death, right? But your moral code is so strict and punishing that there's no real free will.

[Conserative Morality]

Yes, you can.

Bad news for you, pal. If you can wake up tomorrow and say "Wow, I could really go for fucking a member of the same sex right now.", whether or not you go through with it, you aren't straight.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Yes.

What's the point of being good if there's no free will to do evil?

The reward for being good is, at least in your opinion, to be received into paradise after death, right? But your moral code is so strict and punishing that there's no real free will.

What are you typing about?

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Yes, you can.

Bad news for you, pal. If you can wake up tomorrow and say "Wow, I could really go for fucking a member of the same sex right now.", whether or not you go through with it, you aren't straight.

I know that...

[Conserative Morality]

What are you typing about?

What good is good in a person if the safeguards against doing evil are effective?

[El-Amin Caliphate]

You had to speak of them like that because...?

Mostly to emphasize that they aren't the end-all be-all of human religion, even before the modern day; even in Europe and the near east.

And what's the top part for?

A correction. There are sects of Islam that accept various things Jochi complained about. You might regard them as incorrect, heretical, or outright blasphemous, but they do exist, and they probably see you in a similar light.

Like Joch typed, religion isn't something you choose. It is what it is, no execptions.

[New haven america]

There is no major religion that says homosexuality is okay.

From what research I've done into it, Therevada (at least, maybe it applies to other denominations as well) Buddhism is completely silent on homosexuality.

Buddhism is actually accepting of a lot of things, interestingly.

For example, if you're Buddhist, you can have another religion along with Buddhism (Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, etc...). Buddhist teachings don't really care about other religions, as long as you follow the teachings of Buddha, you're fine.

[White Chrobatia]

What are you typing about?

What good is good in a person if the safeguards against doing evil are effective?

Basically this. There's no point in being good if no one is evil.

When everyone's special, no one is.

[Conserative Morality]

I know that...

So which is it? Do you choose to be not-straight, or is sexuality not a choice?

[White Chrobatia]

Mostly to emphasize that they aren't the end-all be-all of human religion, even before the modern day; even in Europe and the near east.

A correction. There are sects of Islam that accept various things Jochi complained about. You might regard them as incorrect, heretical, or outright blasphemous, but they do exist, and they probably see you in a similar light.

Like Joch typed, religion isn't something you choose. It is what it is, no execptions.

Really? I was born and raised Catholic, but I chose not to follow their traditions because I disagree with them. Now I'm choosing to look into Buddhism, which is the religion of at least half of my ancestors.

Is that not choice? Perhaps I'm misinterpreting what you mean by choosing.

[Conserative Morality]

Like Joch typed, religion isn't something you choose. It is what it is, no execptions.

"You don't choose religion, but you do choose sexuality."

It's like I walked into some weird mirror universe. Does this mean I no longer have to worry about hearing proselytizing Abrahamic religions anymore telling me I'm going to hell?