Latvia to ban Islamic veils

[Risottia]

Yes they did. International Law says that we have freedom of religion, which Latvia broke.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/01/france-burqa-ban-upheld-human-rights-court

When France banned Burqa the European Court of Human Rights said it was legal.

That's because
a) wearing a full face concealment isn't a mandate of Islam
b) French law bans ALL kind of face concealment (unless for some special cases like wearing a motorcycle helmet while driving a motorcycle).

So, totally legal as long as you don't target a religion or a religious practice specifically.

SNIP

The UN is a joke and international law can't be enforced.

The UN matter not, their treatises on the subject aren't binding. The CoE and the ECHR do matter and the rulings of the Strasbourg Court are binding.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

The reason people are against this archaic 'law' is because it's bigoted against Muslims. And how would Islam crush Europe anyway?

Oh now a law is "archaic" because it aims to treat all citizens of this country equally? Bigoted against Muslims? How so? If Muslims want to go and live in other countries different than theirs, they should be treated as any other citizen of this country. Last time I checked, I didn't see any Latvian woman wearing a burqa. If these people want to live in Latvia and be treated as Latvians or any other European country, they should forshake whatever customs they practiced back in their hometown. At least in public places. They can do whatever they want in their homes.
How Islam would crush Europe you ask? It's simple. These people, especially the latest immigrants, can't accept any religion or culture other than theirs. They are unable to fit into European societies. Evidence are the numerous crimes that immigrants have commited in the last months. The Turks are the closer a Muslim people has ever fit into Europe and that's because Turkey is the nearest Muslim country.
Keeping the situation as it is, with Muslims breeding like rabbits and the Europeans still in the midst of an economic crisis (which equals fewer births per couple -family badget you see), in half a century or so, Europe will be overrun.

Religion has no nation, only adherents. And that's rude to equate children per Muslim family as Muslims breeding like rabbits. We're not animals. And the reason they can't accept Western culture is because Western culture has it's bad side. And overrun by whom?

[El-Amin Caliphate]

If they sought to kill people they wouldn't be Muslim.

How strange that some people like Al-Nusra, Boko Haram, Al-Qaeda and ISIL say they are Muslims then. These groups are infamous for killing non-Muslim. Your statement is not a valid argument; what you essentially are doing is shoving the fault off the religion.

It's not religion that's at fault here, it's the people who practice it or who claim to practice it that are.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

There's a nicer way to say that.

There are meaner ways to say it, too. Neither of these facts really matter.

I'm saying that you could've said in a less rude and offending way. Like for example: "I don't believe in the Qur'an because..." not "the Qur'an in full-on BS that oppresses women". not that you said specifically that, but the former would've been better to say.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/01/france-burqa-ban-upheld-human-rights-court

When France banned Burqa the European Court of Human Rights said it was legal.

That's because
a) wearing a full face concealment isn't a mandate of Islam
b) French law bans ALL kind of face concealment (unless for some special cases like wearing a motorcycle helmet while driving a motorcycle).

So, totally legal as long as you don't target a religion or a religious practice specifically.

The UN is a joke and international law can't be enforced.

The UN matter not, their treatises on the subject aren't binding. The CoE and the ECHR do matter and the rulings of the Strasbourg Court are binding.

I wouldn't agree because for some Muslim women that's a way they see as better than just wearing hijab. You can't push people in a box & say "this is how you'll practice".

[El-Amin Caliphate]

So you're saying that the Qur'an justifies killing innocent people? Because it doesn't even say that. The Holy Qur'an only justifies killing in self-defense and wars. And even in wars there's a certain way Muslim must fight. The Holy Qur'an says that killing 1 person is like killing all of mankind, and saving 1 person is like saving all of mankind. So no, Muslims that kill just because have revoked their Muslimhood unless they ask for Allah's (SWT) forgiveness and/or repent. If you didn't know, I'm Muslim btw.

Why does killing in a war make it OK?

That's the loophole people talk about, FFS.

Wars can be started by anyone for any reason, good or bad.

This is why so many people have joined ISIL.

In a war, you're supposed to kill or you get killed. Islam teaches defensive violence. So if someone attacks you, you defend yourself, but with an equal amount of force. Same I wars. If 1 nation tries to take over, the Islamic nation must defend itself through war. Even in conquering new land (which is war), there are certain things Muslims shouldn't do while conquering new land. Ex: not killing civilians, not burning religious texts, no burning homes, etc., not hurting the food supply, etc.

[Victoriala]

That's because
a) wearing a full face concealment isn't a mandate of Islam
b) French law bans ALL kind of face concealment (unless for some special cases like wearing a motorcycle helmet while driving a motorcycle).

So, totally legal as long as you don't target a religion or a religious practice specifically.


The UN matter not, their treatises on the subject aren't binding. The CoE and the ECHR do matter and the rulings of the Strasbourg Court are binding.

I wouldn't agree because for some Muslim women that's a way they see as better than just wearing hijab. You can't push people in a box & say "this is how you'll practice".

Isn't that the same case on anywhere even in islam

[Zakuvia]

I agree that Latvia should have taken the French route. It smacks of bigotry and isn't even useful. Banning the face veil to prevent weapon smuggling is inane; banning the full Burqa would actually do what they're claiming to do, and even then would still be against the tenets of free exercise. An across the board ban on public full-body coverings of all kinds would do what they're claiming, and not be so blatantly targeted towards Muslims.

[Scomagia]

There are meaner ways to say it, too. Neither of these facts really matter.

I'm saying that you could've said in a less rude and offending way. Like for example: "I don't believe in the Qur'an because..." not "the Qur'an in full-on BS that oppresses women". not that you said specifically that, but the former would've been better to say.

Considering my opinion of religion in general and the monotheisms in particular, I've been pretty nice. In any case, if we've moved past the final objectionable line of my post, perhaps you could address the rest.

[Vistulange]

2 questions- 1st: How would you persecute Islamists?

Speaking for Turkey and not any other country, I would add in a nice, simple article to the Turkish Penal Code which actually does exist in some form but is not enforced properly: Any person disseminating or publicly expressing views against the democratic, secular and constitutional order or actively promoting any cause to overthrow the democratic, secular and constitutional order will be punished by an aggravated life sentence.

Yes, Islamism - and any other ideology seeking to use democracy and its rights to overthrow said democratic and free system - deserves nothing less than what replaced our capital punishment. Use democracy to destroy democracy? Not on your life. There's a reason I respect the German streitbare demokratie.

Edit: Said law already exists.

Madde 309- (1) Cebir ve şiddet kullanarak, Türkiye Cumhuriyeti Anayasasının öngördüğü düzeni ortadan kaldırmaya
veya bu düzen yerine başka bir düzen getirmeye veya bu düzenin fiilen uygulanmasını önlemeye teşebbüs edenler
ağırlaştırılmış müebbet hapis cezası ile cezalandırılırlar.

Which means: "Persons attempting to replace, destroy or prevent [from working] the order foreseen by the Constitution of the Turkish Republic through use of coercion or force are punished by aggravated life imprisonment". I would simply interpret "coercion" broadly.

2nd: So you would persecute me?

Why should you get any special treatment? Is it not worse if certain people were arbitrarily excluded from the law?

[Herargon]

Oh now a law is "archaic" because it aims to treat all citizens of this country equally? Bigoted against Muslims? How so? If Muslims want to go and live in other countries different than theirs, they should be treated as any other citizen of this country. Last time I checked, I didn't see any Latvian woman wearing a burqa. If these people want to live in Latvia and be treated as Latvians or any other European country, they should forshake whatever customs they practiced back in their hometown. At least in public places. They can do whatever they want in their homes.
How Islam would crush Europe you ask? It's simple. These people, especially the latest immigrants, can't accept any religion or culture other than theirs. They are unable to fit into European societies. Evidence are the numerous crimes that immigrants have commited in the last months. The Turks are the closer a Muslim people has ever fit into Europe and that's because Turkey is the nearest Muslim country.
Keeping the situation as it is, with Muslims breeding like rabbits and the Europeans still in the midst of an economic crisis (which equals fewer births per couple -family badget you see), in half a century or so, Europe will be overrun.

Religion has no nation, only adherents. And that's rude to equate children per Muslim family as Muslims breeding like rabbits. We're not animals. And the reason they can't accept Western culture is because Western culture has it's bad side. And overrun by whom?

So, because Western culture has its bad sides, Muslim people should not accept it?
Then we should not accept Muslims as well, because Muslim culture has its bad sides.
Perfectly logical according to you, right?

I wouldn't think that it is a good idea to reject Western culture if you're in the west. Then you are creating a problem yourself, and then you wonder why you're not being accepted.
If you are in the West, you must assimilate. That means giving up all your Middle Eastern traditions and values, and changing that to a western idea of norms and values.
If you go to a democratic and civil law-based country in the Middle East, the same is the case; you should have to give up most of your Western norms and values in exchange for Middle Eastern norms and values. That is equal treatment. If one were to disagree with such an idea, he or she would be breaking law, and thus be under grounds to be arrested for not adhering to civil law. Civil law goes above most - if not - all laws, and it is the judge's ultimate decision to say if you have done something wrong.

[Braecland]

I have to say I totally agree with Latvia on this one.

[The Coalition of the Magical unicorns]

Acutally, ban all religious clothing which mostly harms women just because men can't control themselves. Why the hell should a women cover herself just because a random man can't control his breeding tool?

[South Shellfort]

Oh now a law is "archaic" because it aims to treat all citizens of this country equally? Bigoted against Muslims? How so? If Muslims want to go and live in other countries different than theirs, they should be treated as any other citizen of this country. Last time I checked, I didn't see any Latvian woman wearing a burqa. If these people want to live in Latvia and be treated as Latvians or any other European country, they should forsake whatever customs they practiced back in their hometown. At least in public places. They can do whatever they want in their homes.
How would Islam crush Europe you ask? It's simple. These people, especially the latest immigrants, can't accept any religion or culture other than theirs. They are unable to fit into European societies. Evidence are the numerous crimes that immigrants have committed in the last months. The Turks are the closer a Muslim people has ever fit into Europe and that's because Turkey is the nearest Muslim country.
Keeping the situation as it is, with Muslims breeding like rabbits and the Europeans still in the midst of an economic crisis (which equals fewer births per couple -family budget you see), in half a century or so, Europe will be overrun.

Religion has no nation, only adherents. And that's rude to equate children per Muslim family as Muslims breeding like rabbits. We're not animals. And the reason they can't accept Western culture is because Western culture has it bad side. And overrun by whom?

Sorry for writing this, but yes, your people are actually acting like, hmm , forget it. Why Muslims breed like rabbits if they are so poor? Simple: to outbreed any nation they are going to. Now are Europe. And the Grand Finale will be the Americas. Also, the fucking ISIS has sent lots of their terrorists among the refugees to aggravate the situation.
Muslim culture has it bad side too. Everything existent in the Universe has it bad side. Deal with it.

[Kautharr]

Good. It's time every country in Europe does the same. Ave Europa.

Ave fuck you.

cool

[Victoriala]

Good. It's time every country in Europe does the same. Ave Europa.

Ave fuck you.

deadass

[South Shellfort]

Good. It's time every country in Europe does the same. Ave Europa.

Ave fuck you.

I can feel the warning and the ban-post-warning here

[El-Amin Caliphate]

2 questions- 1st: How would you persecute Islamists?

Speaking for Turkey and not any other country, I would add in a nice, simple article to the Turkish Penal Code which actually does exist in some form but is not enforced properly: Any person disseminating or publicly expressing views against the democratic, secular and constitutional order or actively promoting any cause to overthrow the democratic, secular and constitutional order will be punished by an aggravated life sentence.

Yes, Islamism - and any other ideology seeking to use democracy and its rights to overthrow said democratic and free system - deserves nothing less than what replaced our capital punishment. Use democracy to destroy democracy? Not on your life. There's a reason I respect the German streitbare demokratie.

Edit: Said law already exists.

Madde 309- (1) Cebir ve şiddet kullanarak, Türkiye Cumhuriyeti Anayasasının öngördüğü düzeni ortadan kaldırmaya
veya bu düzen yerine başka bir düzen getirmeye veya bu düzenin fiilen uygulanmasını önlemeye teşebbüs edenler
ağırlaştırılmış müebbet hapis cezası ile cezalandırılırlar.

Which means: "Persons attempting to replace, destroy or prevent [from working] the order foreseen by the Constitution of the Turkish Republic through use of coercion or force are punished by aggravated life imprisonment". I would simply interpret "coercion" broadly.

2nd: So you would persecute me?

Why should you get any special treatment? Is it not worse if certain people were arbitrarily excluded from the law?

I don't agree too much on life imprisonment and capital punishment, so Turkey's wrong imo. And I didn't say special treatment, just that I be treated like everybody else.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Religion has no nation, only adherents. And that's rude to equate children per Muslim family as Muslims breeding like rabbits. We're not animals. And the reason they can't accept Western culture is because Western culture has it's bad side. And overrun by whom?

So, because Western culture has its bad sides, Muslim people should not accept it?
Then we should not accept Muslims as well, because Muslim culture has its bad sides.
Perfectly logical according to you, right?

I wouldn't think that it is a good idea to reject Western culture if you're in the west. Then you are creating a problem yourself, and then you wonder why you're not being accepted.
If you are in the West, you must assimilate. That means giving up all your Middle Eastern traditions and values, and changing that to a western idea of norms and values.
If you go to a democratic and civil law-based country in the Middle East, the same is the case; you should have to give up most of your Western norms and values in exchange for Middle Eastern norms and values. That is equal treatment. If one were to disagree with such an idea, he or she would be breaking law, and thus be under grounds to be arrested for not adhering to civil law. Civil law goes above most - if not - all laws, and it is the judge's ultimate decision to say if you have done something wrong.

I already y once had a culture to myself. I'm African American, so I'd rather reclaim that culture. And you don't have to assimilate. I said culture not norms.

[Victoriala]

So, because Western culture has its bad sides, Muslim people should not accept it?
Then we should not accept Muslims as well, because Muslim culture has its bad sides.
Perfectly logical according to you, right?

I wouldn't think that it is a good idea to reject Western culture if you're in the west. Then you are creating a problem yourself, and then you wonder why you're not being accepted.
If you are in the West, you must assimilate. That means giving up all your Middle Eastern traditions and values, and changing that to a western idea of norms and values.
If you go to a democratic and civil law-based country in the Middle East, the same is the case; you should have to give up most of your Western norms and values in exchange for Middle Eastern norms and values. That is equal treatment. If one were to disagree with such an idea, he or she would be breaking law, and thus be under grounds to be arrested for not adhering to civil law. Civil law goes above most - if not - all laws, and it is the judge's ultimate decision to say if you have done something wrong.

I already y once had a culture to myself. I'm African American, so I'd rather reclaim that culture. And you don't have to assimilate. I said culture not norms.

Culture and norms are technically the same thing

[South Shellfort]

2 questions- 1st: How would you persecute Islamists?

Speaking for Turkey and not any other country, I would add in a nice, simple article to the Turkish Penal Code which actually does exist in some form but is not enforced properly: Any person disseminating or publicly expressing views against the democratic, secular and constitutional order or actively promoting any cause to overthrow the democratic, secular and constitutional order will be punished by an aggravated life sentence.

Yes, Islamism - and any other ideology seeking to use democracy and its rights to overthrow said democratic and free system - deserves nothing less than what replaced our capital punishment. Use democracy to destroy democracy? Not on your life. There's a reason I respect the German streitbare demokratie.

Edit: Said law already exists.

Madde 309- (1) Cebir ve şiddet kullanarak, Türkiye Cumhuriyeti Anayasasının öngördüğü düzeni ortadan kaldırmaya
veya bu düzen yerine başka bir düzen getirmeye veya bu düzenin fiilen uygulanmasını önlemeye teşebbüs edenler
ağırlaştırılmış müebbet hapis cezası ile cezalandırılırlar.

Which means: "Persons attempting to replace, destroy or prevent [from working] the order foreseen by the Constitution of the Turkish Republic through use of coercion or force are punished by aggravated life imprisonment". I would simply interpret "coercion" broadly.

2nd: So you would persecute me?

Why should you get any special treatment? Is it not worse if certain people were arbitrarily excluded from the law?

In reality, everyone deserves the equal rights under the law. Not less or special treatments; both are wrong.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Acutally, ban all religious clothing which mostly harms women just because men can't control themselves. Why the hell should a women cover herself just because a random man can't control his breeding tool?

There's a dress code for men too. Ex: In Islam (which I practice), men can't wear silk, pants that go below ankles, no clothes that make you look rich, those are some.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Religion has no nation, only adherents. And that's rude to equate children per Muslim family as Muslims breeding like rabbits. We're not animals. And the reason they can't accept Western culture is because Western culture has it bad side. And overrun by whom?

Sorry for writing this, but yes, your people are actually acting like, hmm , forget it. Why Muslims breed like rabbits if they are so poor? Simple: to outbreed any nation they are going to. Now are Europe. And the Grand Finale will be the Americas. Also, the fucking ISIS has sent lots of their terrorists among the refugees to aggravate the situation.
Muslim culture has it bad side too. Everything existent in the Universe has it bad side. Deal with it.

What the world?! I just told Alaizia not to be rude, and now you are? And your answer is wrong. On average, Muslim families have 3.1-3.2 children. And yes, ISIS shouldn't be infiltrating anything.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Sorry for writing this, but yes, your people are actually acting like, hmm , forget it. Why Muslims breed like rabbits if they are so poor? Simple: to outbreed any nation they are going to. Now are Europe. And the Grand Finale will be the Americas. Also, the fucking ISIS has sent lots of their terrorists among the refugees to aggravate the situation.
Muslim culture has it bad side too. Everything existent in the Universe has it bad side. Deal with it.

What the world?! I just told Alaizia not to be rude, and now you are? And your answer is wrong. On average, Muslim families have 3.1-3.2 children. And yes, ISIS shouldn't be infiltrating anything.

And it's not Muslim culture, it's Arab culture. Don't et the 2 mixed up please.

[South Shellfort]

Sorry for writing this, but yes, your people are actually acting like, hmm , forget it. Why Muslims breed like rabbits if they are so poor? Simple: to outbreed any nation they are going to. Now are Europe. And the Grand Finale will be the Americas. Also, the fucking ISIS has sent lots of their terrorists among the refugees to aggravate the situation.
Muslim culture has it bad side too. Everything existent in the Universe has it bad side. Deal with it.

What the world?! I just told Alaizia not to be rude, and now you are? And your answer is wrong. On average, Muslim families have 3.1-3.2 children. And yes, ISIS shouldn't be infiltrating anything.

No? If a cockroach can enter into my pants when I'm awake why the ISIS should not infiltrate some of their Jihadists into a refugee wave?