Latvia to ban Islamic veils

[Indo-Malaysia]

I wonder what would people say if someone banned clergy outfits in public?

Oh yeah. Backlash from every-effing-one.

When was the last time Catholic priests executed wide-spread terror attacks motivated by religion?

*cough cough* PIRA *cough cough*

[Gauthier]

I like how all these people are like "Oh, dude, those pesky Europeans are oppressing the Muslim minorities!". Meanwhile, in the Middle East, if you are literally walking with the Bible on the street, you can get stoned to death. I am pretty sure nobody who was walking with the Quran on the street in Europe was stoned.

Fallacy of Relative Privation ftw.

[Kubumba Tribe]

I like how all these people are like "Oh, dude, those pesky Europeans are oppressing the Muslim minorities!". Meanwhile, in the Middle East, if you are literally walking with the Bible on the street, you can get stoned to death. I am pretty sure nobody who was walking with the Quran on the street in Europe was stoned.

Well, the forum topic is about Latvia's ban on niqabs. But yes, reform does need to be made about religious tolerance in the Middle East too.

[Pope Joan]

Who cares? Muslim migrants don't go to Latvia because a lot of them want a cozy life where the welfare checks flow like rain and the government/police excuse and ignore their misbehaviour. Latvia isn't Germoney so it won't do the first, and its government and citizenry wouldn't tolerate the latter.

Besides, face coverings shouldn't be allowed in public.

As a matter of fact, no sane person would ever migrate to Latvia for any reason. It's like Finland, minus the reindeer and colorful Sami.

"If you don't mind the cold, then visit during January, February, March and December. But don't forget to pack your thermals! "

http://www.world-climates.com/country-c ... ia-europe/

[Threlizdun]

I like how all these people are like "Oh, dude, those pesky Europeans are oppressing the Muslim minorities!". Meanwhile, in the Middle East, if you are literally walking with the Bible on the street, you can get stoned to death. I am pretty sure nobody who was walking with the Quran on the street in Europe was stoned.

Funny, I haven't seen anyone who felt this is wrong propose that religious intolerance in the Middle East was acceptable. Perhaps it is possible that religious intolerance and attacks on freedom of expression in general tend to be wrong?

[Communist Xomaniax]

Who cares? Muslim migrants don't go to Latvia because a lot of them want a cozy life where the welfare checks flow like rain and the government/police excuse and ignore their misbehaviour. Latvia isn't Germoney so it won't do the first, and its government and citizenry wouldn't tolerate the latter.

Besides, face coverings shouldn't be allowed in public.

Even for religious purposes?

You don't get special exemption from the law just because your imam says you have to wear a burlap sack over yourself. Something which, BTW, isn't even accepted as actually islamic by many Muslims.

[Vistulange]

Yes, sure.

Me, I'm not too sure it was bullshit in Turkey. We let them have what they want, and here we are today. Granted, the Islamists in Turkey used religion as a tool to further their political interests. I doubt Muslims in Europe can ever realistically accomplish that.

However, in the event of them trying to exert political pressure via religion, they must be crushed with the most brutal and fear-inspiring methods possible, beaten down so viciously that they will fear to look up at the Sun for fear of another iron rod smashing into their faces for a thousand years. Islamists deserve nothing better.

And you call ISIS terrorists and you're not?

Yes.

If I must persecute 5% of the population to preserve the democratic and human rights of 95%, I will do so. That 5%, if Islamists, will seek to eradicate all democratic rights and freedoms, and should not be granted any leniency.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

And you call ISIS terrorists and you're not?

Yes.

If I must persecute 5% of the population to preserve the democratic and human rights of 95%, I will do so. That 5%, if Islamists, will seek to eradicate all democratic rights and freedoms, and should not be granted any leniency.

My Muslim sisters aren't Islamists, they are Muslims. Besides, Islamism is just what the Muslim world needs right now with what's going on.

[Jetan]

*Claps for Latvia*

Keep up the good work Latvia, at least you are aware of the Muslim invasion of Europe. Do what you can to protect your people and your culture.

So aware of it that they still have full, open relations with the original Islamic State: Saudi Arabia. But, yeah, let's applaud 'em.

I don't see a problem here, religion should have no place in public life anyway. Latvia should be consistent on this and ban other religious trappings in public spaces aswell.

I hope you didn't drop your fedora when you were tipping it, Jetan.

Is that the best you got? There is nothing neckbeardy about secularism or even laicite. Now, do you actually have something to say or are you just continuing your tradition of potshots at various targets?

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Even for religious purposes?

You don't get special exemption from the law just because your imam says you have to wear a burlap sack over yourself. Something which, BTW, isn't even accepted as actually islamic by many Muslims.

Do Not Be Offensive To The Niqab. It Is Furthering Your Faith in Allah. It May Be Optional, But We Still Have The Right To Practice Our Religion In Whatever Guise It Takes As Long As We Aren't Harming Anyone Else. Now If You Want To Debate, Go On. But If You Are Trying To Be Rude, Go Somewhere Else.

[Rio Cana]

In two days this thread has gotten to 30 pages. Must be an important issue for Europeans.

So there are only three veil wearers in the whole of Latvia. So this law could be thinking ahead. After all, they might not want to be inundated by veil wearing tourists and potentially veil wearing migrants from Germany or the Swedish nation. (Main passenger Ferries from Latvia to those two nations see route map below) -

[Valaran]

So aware of it that they still have full, open relations with the original Islamic State: Saudi Arabia. But, yeah, let's applaud 'em.



I hope you didn't drop your fedora when you were tipping it, Jetan.

Is that the best you got? There is nothing neckbeardy about secularism or even laicite. Now, do you actually have something to say or are you just continuing your tradition of potshots at various targets?

Well, his Saudi Arabia point is still valid.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

In two days this thread has gotten to 30 pages. Must be an important issue for Europeans.

So there are only three veil wearers in the whole of Latvia. So this law could be thinking ahead. After all, they might not want to be inundated by veil wearing tourists and potentially veil wearing migrants from Germany or the Swedish nation. (Main passenger Ferries from Latvia to those two nations see route map below) -

(Image) (Image)

You gotta be kidding.

[Communist Xomaniax]

You don't get special exemption from the law just because your imam says you have to wear a burlap sack over yourself. Something which, BTW, isn't even accepted as actually islamic by many Muslims.

Do Not Be Offensive To The Niqab. It Is Furthering Your Faith in Allah. It May Be Optional, But We Still Have The Right To Practice Our Religion In Whatever Guise It Takes As Long As We Aren't Harming Anyone Else. Now If You Want To Debate, Go On. But If You Are Trying To Be Rude, Go Somewhere Else.

You quite literally only have the right to wear the Magical Burlap Sack of Arabic Tribal Culture Pretending to Be Muslim Attire if the government says you have that right. In France and Latvia, you don't have that right. In most of the Middle East, in comparison, you get lashed for NOT wearing it.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Do Not Be Offensive To The Niqab. It Is Furthering Your Faith in Allah. It May Be Optional, But We Still Have The Right To Practice Our Religion In Whatever Guise It Takes As Long As We Aren't Harming Anyone Else. Now If You Want To Debate, Go On. But If You Are Trying To Be Rude, Go Somewhere Else.

You quite literally only have the right to wear the Magical Burlap Sack of Arabic Tribal Culture Pretending to Be Muslim Attire if the government says you have that right. In France and Latvia, you don't have that right. In most of the Middle East, in comparison, you get lashed for NOT wearing it.

I don't understand why I'm debating with a bigoted-minded person. How would it make you feel if I said that nuns were cellebut women in Harry Potter cloaks that don't know how to have a good time, or if you are Atheist, a strung out person with no aim in life? How does this make you feel if I said that directly to you? Note that what I just said is a scenario, not for real.

[Iessen]

When was the last time Catholic priests executed wide-spread terror attacks motivated by religion?

*cough cough* PIRA *cough cough*

The PIRA was an Irish Republican movement heavily influenced by Catholicism but not motivated by it.

[Herargon]

You quite literally only have the right to wear the Magical Burlap Sack of Arabic Tribal Culture Pretending to Be Muslim Attire if the government says you have that right. In France and Latvia, you don't have that right. In most of the Middle East, in comparison, you get lashed for NOT wearing it.

I don't understand why I'm debating with a bigoted-minded person. How would it make you feel if I said that nuns were cellebut women in Harry Potter cloaks that don't know how to have a good time, or if you are Atheist, a strung out person with no aim in life? How does this make you feel if I said that directly to you? Note that what I just said is a scenario, not for real.

I'm a Catholic, and I can't be bothered if you said that nuns were celibate women. They even aren't people in Harry Potter cloaks. It's an invalid comparision.

What I think is that the Middle Eastern people immediately need to re-enforce their revolution. To restart it, and to create a completely secular civilisation, in where every religion has an equal role, and has no role in politics. A society in where people do not have to listen to religious laws, but to choose to follow those, without percussions. A society in where people listen to the national law first, and after that, treating people as humane, and as last, religious law.

I cannot respect people that do not wish to do so. Arranged marriages, female circumcision, stoning, lashes, going to jail if you say your own leader is being corrupt, death penalty for adultery, execution for blasphemy, absolute monarchies or dictatorships, very flawed democracies, discrimination against both people of other religions and ethnicities, disallowing women to have equal rights (based on the story that women are less than men because they would have eaten from a forbidden fruit first and tempted a man to do it as well - despite the woman supposedly having done it under pressure of the snake) --- the list goes on and on and on.

To all of that; nothing of that is happening in the West. The Middle East is years behind. I think it is time for them to finally realise that something needs to be done about it. You, as a Muslim, can try to better the world yourself, by breaking the tradition and spreading the awareness.
One that does not do that, as a Muslim, would not be spreading the word of peace. He would be spreading the word of violence, and that is forbidden to - in any normal form or sect of Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Bahai, Hinduism, Atheism, Agnosticism, et cetera.

[Vistulange]

My Muslim sisters aren't Islamists, they are Muslims.

Good! As long as they don't try to engage their religious views in politics, I don't have the slightest problem with them. I'm sure you are all delightful people, and I'm not even being sarcastic there.

Besides, Islamism is just what the Muslim world needs right now with what's going on.

Mhm. Then don't get pissed off when I say I want to persecute you all.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

I don't understand why I'm debating with a bigoted-minded person. How would it make you feel if I said that nuns were cellebut women in Harry Potter cloaks that don't know how to have a good time, or if you are Atheist, a strung out person with no aim in life? How does this make you feel if I said that directly to you? Note that what I just said is a scenario, not for real.

I'm a Catholic, and I can't be bothered if you said that nuns were celibate women. They even aren't people in Harry Potter cloaks. It's an invalid comparision.

What I think is that the Middle Eastern people immediately need to re-enforce their revolution. To restart it, and to create a completely secular civilisation, in where every religion has an equal role, and has no role in politics. A society in where people do not have to listen to religious laws, but to choose to follow those, without percussions. A society in where people listen to the national law first, and after that, treating people as humane, and as last, religious law.

I cannot respect people that do not wish to do so. Arranged marriages, female circumcision, stoning, lashes, going to jail if you say your own leader is being corrupt, death penalty for adultery, execution for blasphemy, absolute monarchies or dictatorships, very flawed democracies, discrimination against both people of other religions and ethnicities, disallowing women to have equal rights (based on the story that women are less than men because they would have eaten from a forbidden fruit first and tempted a man to do it as well - despite the woman supposedly having done it under pressure of the snake) --- the list goes on and on and on.

To all of that; nothing of that is happening in the West. The Middle East is years behind. I think it is time for them to finally realise that something needs to be done about it. You, as a Muslim, can try to better the world yourself, by breaking the tradition and spreading the awareness.
One that does not do that, as a Muslim, would not be spreading the word of peace. He would be spreading the word of violence, and that is forbidden to - in any normal form or sect of Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Bahai, Hinduism, Atheism, Agnosticism, et cetera.

Didn't you read that what I said was a scenario, not for real? That was the last sentence. Anyways, I understand what you said. I do agree with most of what you said about ancient oppression of women (needs to stop now), racism (which exists in the West mostly, but nonetheless needs to be stopped), cruel and unusual punishment (needs to stop), etc. What I don't agree with is what you said about religion being the last thing on the government's mind. I sometimes think about a form of government called a Theocratic Democracy. In this form of government, people follow the particular laws of their religion. Ex: Christians follow their laws, Muslims theirs, Jews theirs, etc. Atheists and agnostics follow the democratic laws/values. Of course all will be allowed to vote, run for office, etc. But I'm still working on a how the courts will work out on what would happen if 1 religious person did a thing to another religious person who was of a different religion. And I will tell my brothers to tell other Muslims not to fall to extremism, but you will have to tell others that Islam's not as bad as it's portrayed. OK?

[El-Amin Caliphate]

My Muslim sisters aren't Islamists, they are Muslims.

Good! As long as they don't try to engage their religious views in politics, I don't have the slightest problem with them. I'm sure you are all delightful people, and I'm not even being sarcastic there.
Oh...ok.

Besides, Islamism is just what the Muslim world needs right now with what's going on.

Mhm. Then don't get pissed off when I say I want to persecute you all.

Is said for the Muslim world, not the whole world. And I would still be ticked off, because persecution is wrong.

[Communist Xomaniax]

You quite literally only have the right to wear the Magical Burlap Sack of Arabic Tribal Culture Pretending to Be Muslim Attire if the government says you have that right. In France and Latvia, you don't have that right. In most of the Middle East, in comparison, you get lashed for NOT wearing it.

I don't understand why I'm debating with a bigoted-minded person. How would it make you feel if I said that nuns were cellebut women in Harry Potter cloaks that don't know how to have a good time, or if you are Atheist, a strung out person with no aim in life? How does this make you feel if I said that directly to you? Note that what I just said is a scenario, not for real.

I'm a fully functional adult, so I wouldn't care.

[Valaran]

I don't understand why I'm debating with a bigoted-minded person. How would it make you feel if I said that nuns were cellebut women in Harry Potter cloaks that don't know how to have a good time, or if you are Atheist, a strung out person with no aim in life? How does this make you feel if I said that directly to you? Note that what I just said is a scenario, not for real.

Calling someone an atheist isn't necessarily much of an insult.

[Jetan]

I'm a Catholic, and I can't be bothered if you said that nuns were celibate women. They even aren't people in Harry Potter cloaks. It's an invalid comparision.

What I think is that the Middle Eastern people immediately need to re-enforce their revolution. To restart it, and to create a completely secular civilisation, in where every religion has an equal role, and has no role in politics. A society in where people do not have to listen to religious laws, but to choose to follow those, without percussions. A society in where people listen to the national law first, and after that, treating people as humane, and as last, religious law.

I cannot respect people that do not wish to do so. Arranged marriages, female circumcision, stoning, lashes, going to jail if you say your own leader is being corrupt, death penalty for adultery, execution for blasphemy, absolute monarchies or dictatorships, very flawed democracies, discrimination against both people of other religions and ethnicities, disallowing women to have equal rights (based on the story that women are less than men because they would have eaten from a forbidden fruit first and tempted a man to do it as well - despite the woman supposedly having done it under pressure of the snake) --- the list goes on and on and on.

To all of that; nothing of that is happening in the West. The Middle East is years behind. I think it is time for them to finally realise that something needs to be done about it. You, as a Muslim, can try to better the world yourself, by breaking the tradition and spreading the awareness.
One that does not do that, as a Muslim, would not be spreading the word of peace. He would be spreading the word of violence, and that is forbidden to - in any normal form or sect of Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Bahai, Hinduism, Atheism, Agnosticism, et cetera.

Didn't you read that what I said was a scenario, not for real? That was the last sentence. Anyways, I understand what you said. I do agree with most of what you said about ancient oppression of women (needs to stop now), racism (which exists in the West mostly, but nonetheless needs to be stopped), cruel and unusual punishment (needs to stop), etc. What I don't agree with is what you said about religion being the last thing on the government's mind. I sometimes think about a form of government called a Theocratic Democracy. In this form of government, people follow the particular laws of their religion. Ex: Christians follow their laws, Muslims theirs, Jews theirs, etc. Atheists and agnostics follow the democratic laws/values. Of course all will be allowed to vote, run for office, etc. But I'm still working on a how the courts will work out on what would happen if 1 religious person did a thing to another religious person who was of a different religion. And I will tell my brothers to tell other Muslims not to fall to extremism, but you will have to tell others that Islam's not as bad as it's portrayed. OK?

There's two big flaws in a system like that (and that's after dismissing for arguments sake the fact that it's based on religion). 1) The people aren't equal before the law. And 2) Religious groups get to influence the laws atheists and agnostics have to follow while not being subject to it themselves and being immune to similiar medling by atheists and agnostics.

[Vistulange]

Good! As long as they don't try to engage their religious views in politics, I don't have the slightest problem with them. I'm sure you are all delightful people, and I'm not even being sarcastic there.
Oh...ok.

Mhm. Then don't get pissed off when I say I want to persecute you all.

Is said for the Muslim world, not the whole world. And I would still be ticked off, because persecution is wrong.

But not wrong when Islamists do it? Islamism - not Islam - is a cancer upon Earth, just like any other religion-fuelled ideology, and must be eradicated in any way possible. The only reason I say "Islamism" and not "Fundamental Christianity" is because there aren't any radical Christian states executing people for heresy or apostasy, but then you look at Saudi Arabia and Iran.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Is said for the Muslim world, not the whole world. And I would still be ticked off, because persecution is wrong.

But not wrong when Islamists do it? Islamism - not Islam - is a cancer upon Earth, just like any other religion-fuelled ideology, and must be eradicated in any way possible. The only reason I say "Islamism" and not "Fundamental Christianity" is because there aren't any radical Christian states executing people for heresy or apostasy, but then you look at Saudi Arabia and Iran.

I didn't even say anything about Islamism 1st off. And It's not a cancer if we know how to use it right without hurting people. It's not Islamism that's the cancer, it's the people who misuse it are.