Latvia to ban Islamic veils

[Valaran]

is that really enough of a reason? After all, jews and christians don't follow the Qur'an.

I'm pretty sure most Muslims wouldn't be fond of having to pay a special tax in the West simply for being Muslim after all.

*edits St James Bible*

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Why should you have to pay any jizya? Besides the Qur'an saying so, I don't know why else.

is that really enough of a reason? After all, jews and christians don't follow the Qur'an.

I know...that's the confusing part. But then, are there any laws in the Bible and Torah about how non-Christians/non-Jews should be treated? How do you create a nation that tries to be as Islamic as possible with a law that could be seen as discriminatory?

[Dooom35796821595]

But would you support that western men and women wouldn't have to respect islamic laws (like women must cover their faces) in muslim countries?

They should respect other cultures, religions, etc. But they don't have to follow them.

But they do have to follow the law of the country they're in.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

It's not sub-humanity. Besides, Islamic societies can set the jizya to a certain point, but still has to be humane.

No but sharia does create a segregated society where Muslims have more rights than non-Muslims.

That's not true. And if it was, that means that Christian law, Jewish law, etc. would cause segregation.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

They should respect other cultures, religions, etc. But they don't have to follow them.

But they do have to follow the law of the country they're in.

True.

[Napkiraly]

No but sharia does create a segregated society where Muslims have more rights than non-Muslims.

That's not true. And if it was, that means that Christian law, Jewish law, etc. would cause segregation.

Historically, it sure as hell did. Non-Islamic religious practices and symbols could not be in public for instance. During certain periods and under certain states, they could be forbidden from riding horses and even mules. Sometimes had to mark their homes. They could not seek out converts and were forbidden from certain legal and political offices. Then of course, there were the segregated marriage laws where dhimmis could not marry Muslim women but Muslim men could marry dhimmi women.

Life under sharia for non-Muslims was a system of second-class citizenship more or less.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

That's not true. And if it was, that means that Christian law, Jewish law, etc. would cause segregation.

Historically, it sure as hell did. Non-Islamic religious practices and symbols could not be in public for instance. During certain periods and under certain states, they could be forbidden from riding horses and even mules. Sometimes had to mark their homes. They could not seek out converts and were forbidden from certain legal and political offices. Then of course, there were the segregated marriage laws where dhimmis could not marry Muslim women but Muslim men could marry dhimmi women.

Life under sharia for non-Muslims was a system of second-class citizenship more or less.

The Qur'an says that Muslim men AND women can't marry a person who hasn't believed (someone who hasn't believed in Allah (SWT) and the Last Day), so doing that would be not following their own religious laws. Religious rights were reserved for Christians and Jews. Look here: http://lostislamichistory.com/christian ... -of-spain/, here: http://lostislamichistory.com/non-musli ... an-empire/ and what dhimmi? Like a non-Muslim or a non-believer?

[Herargon]

Historically, it sure as hell did. Non-Islamic religious practices and symbols could not be in public for instance. During certain periods and under certain states, they could be forbidden from riding horses and even mules. Sometimes had to mark their homes. They could not seek out converts and were forbidden from certain legal and political offices. Then of course, there were the segregated marriage laws where dhimmis could not marry Muslim women but Muslim men could marry dhimmi women.

Life under sharia for non-Muslims was a system of second-class citizenship more or less.

The Qur'an says that Muslim men AND women can't marry a person who hasn't believed (someone who hasn't believed in Allah (SWT) and the Last Day), so doing that would be not following their own religious laws. Religious rights were reserved for Christians and Jews. Look here: http://lostislamichistory.com/christian ... -of-spain/, here: http://lostislamichistory.com/non-musli ... an-empire/ and what dhimmi? Like a non-Muslim or a non-believer?

But if you as a non-Muslim are unable to marry a Muslim on religious grounds, then there is segregation. Segregation means different types of people live apart from each other. If non-Muslims can't marry Muslims and vice versa, they cannot live together and thus they live apart from each other. That is segregation.

[Napkiraly]

No, Muslim men are allowed to marry women who are people of the book, but there is an emphasis for them to convert. But it's not mandatory for them to convert in order for the marriage to be valid and the children legitimate. The same standard does not exist for non-Muslim men and Muslim women apart from the most lenient of communities.

Religious rights were preserved, yes. But that doesn't mean overall they were legally equal, they were not.

[Ganos Lao]

Can we all agree that religious law - of any religion - has no place in society? I mean, if you feel compelled to live as God/Allah/Krishna/whoever told you to do, then do so. Just don't try to force it on anyone else, you know? I am a firm supporter of secularism, but I'm also a firm supporter of the live and let live idea. But most people don't get this simple concept, because guilt by association wins out every single time.

[Ganos Lao]

is that really enough of a reason? After all, jews and christians don't follow the Qur'an.

I know...that's the confusing part. But then, are there any laws in the Bible and Torah about how non-Christians/non-Jews should be treated? How do you create a nation that tries to be as Islamic as possible with a law that could be seen as discriminatory?

It's a pretty simple concept.

You just let those people be.

Leave them alone.

Revolutionary concept, I know.

[Herargon]

is that really enough of a reason? After all, jews and christians don't follow the Qur'an.

I know...that's the confusing part. But then, are there any laws in the Bible and Torah about how non-Christians/non-Jews should be treated? How do you create a nation that tries to be as Islamic as possible with a law that could be seen as discriminatory?

AFAIK, in most of the west, religion and state are separate from each other, unlike in the Middle East. The laws are often vested upon both christian interpretation of the Bible, and the country's own values and mindset, nonetheless. In most cases it is the latter.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

The Qur'an says that Muslim men AND women can't marry a person who hasn't believed (someone who hasn't believed in Allah (SWT) and the Last Day), so doing that would be not following their own religious laws. Religious rights were reserved for Christians and Jews. Look here: http://lostislamichistory.com/christian ... -of-spain/, here: http://lostislamichistory.com/non-musli ... an-empire/ and what dhimmi? Like a non-Muslim or a non-believer?

But if you as a non-Muslim are unable to marry a Muslim on religious grounds, then there is segregation. Segregation means different types of people live apart from each other. If non-Muslims can't marry Muslims and vice versa, they cannot live together and thus they live apart from each other. That is segregation.

I'm a Muslim btw, and Muslim men and women can marry non-Muslim men and women as long as the non-Muslim spouse believes in Allah (SWT) and the Day of Judgement.

[Teemant]

But if you as a non-Muslim are unable to marry a Muslim on religious grounds, then there is segregation. Segregation means different types of people live apart from each other. If non-Muslims can't marry Muslims and vice versa, they cannot live together and thus they live apart from each other. That is segregation.

I'm a Muslim btw, and Muslim men and women can marry non-Muslim men and women as long as the non-Muslim spouse believes in Allah (SWT) and the Day of Judgement.

But if he/she has to belive in Allah then he/she can't be non-Muslim anymore?

[Napkiraly]

But if you as a non-Muslim are unable to marry a Muslim on religious grounds, then there is segregation. Segregation means different types of people live apart from each other. If non-Muslims can't marry Muslims and vice versa, they cannot live together and thus they live apart from each other. That is segregation.

I'm a Muslim btw, and Muslim men and women can marry non-Muslim men and women as long as the non-Muslim spouse believes in Allah (SWT) and the Day of Judgement.

False. It's widely the norm that Muslim women are forbidden from marrying non-Muslim men unless that man converts.

[San Marlindo]

I'm pretty sure most Muslims wouldn't be fond of having to pay a special tax in the West simply for being Muslim after all.

*edits St James Bible*

WTF is a St James Bible

You mean the Book of St James?

[Napkiraly]

*edits St James Bible*

WTF is a St James Bible

You mean the Book of St James?

I think Val meant King James Bible.

[Herargon]

But if you as a non-Muslim are unable to marry a Muslim on religious grounds, then there is segregation. Segregation means different types of people live apart from each other. If non-Muslims can't marry Muslims and vice versa, they cannot live together and thus they live apart from each other. That is segregation.

I'm a Muslim btw, and Muslim men and women can marry non-Muslim men and women as long as the non-Muslim spouse believes in Allah (SWT) and the Day of Judgement.

Well, that is impossible. What you roughly are saying, if I read it correctly, is that a non-Muslim has to convert to Islam in order to be able to marry a Muslim. That is what you said, because to refer you (for sake of easiness, I've generalised your saying) :'Muslims can marry non-Muslims.' That's right? Well, take a look at the next part: 'as long as the non-Muslim believes in Allah.'
Well, Allah is the muslim's concept of God. A person thus would have to believe in Islam and its God, in order to marry. But then he is no longer a muslim.
So, what you are saying, is to be honest, not possible. I should have clarified: I meant if it was possible for a non-Muslim to marry a Muslim, and still keep his or her own faith. That is what we understand.

But, would that be possible without negative consequences?

[Kubumba Tribe]

I'm a Muslim btw, and Muslim men and women can marry non-Muslim men and women as long as the non-Muslim spouse believes in Allah (SWT) and the Day of Judgement.

False. It's widely the norm that Muslim women are forbidden from marrying non-Muslim men unless that man converts.

I said that the Qur'an says that Muslim men and women can marry believing men and women. But I doubt that 'Muslim' countries do that for Muslim women. And I am too Muslim! >w< jk, but I am actually Muslim.

[Kubumba Tribe]

I'm a Muslim btw, and Muslim men and women can marry non-Muslim men and women as long as the non-Muslim spouse believes in Allah (SWT) and the Day of Judgement.

Well, that is impossible. What you roughly are saying, if I read it correctly, is that a non-Muslim has to convert to Islam in order to be able to marry a Muslim. That is what you said, because to refer you (for sake of easiness, I've generalised your saying) :'Muslims can marry non-Muslims.' That's right? Well, take a look at the next part: 'as long as the non-Muslim believes in Allah.'
Well, Allah is the muslim's concept of God. A person thus would have to believe in Islam and its God, in order to marry. But then he is no longer a muslim.
So, what you are saying, is to be honest, not possible. I should have clarified: I meant if it was possible for a non-Muslim to marry a Muslim, and still keep his or her own faith. That is what we understand.

But, would that be possible without negative consequences?

Allah is the Arabic word for God. Muslims, Christians and Jews worship the same God - just call the Almighty by different names - so that's not redundant.

[Napkiraly]

False. It's widely the norm that Muslim women are forbidden from marrying non-Muslim men unless that man converts.

I said that the Qur'an says that Muslim men and women can marry believing men and women. But I doubt that 'Muslim' countries do that for Muslim women. And I am too Muslim! >w< jk, but I am actually Muslim.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interfaith_marriage_in_Islam

Muslim men are discouraged from marrying outside of Islam. Muslim women are straight up prohibited.

[Herargon]

Well, that is impossible. What you roughly are saying, if I read it correctly, is that a non-Muslim has to convert to Islam in order to be able to marry a Muslim. That is what you said, because to refer you (for sake of easiness, I've generalised your saying) :'Muslims can marry non-Muslims.' That's right? Well, take a look at the next part: 'as long as the non-Muslim believes in Allah.'
Well, Allah is the muslim's concept of God. A person thus would have to believe in Islam and its God, in order to marry. But then he is no longer a muslim.
So, what you are saying, is to be honest, not possible. I should have clarified: I meant if it was possible for a non-Muslim to marry a Muslim, and still keep his or her own faith. That is what we understand.

But, would that be possible without negative consequences?

Allah is the Arabic word for God. Muslims, Christians and Jews worship the same God - just call the Almighty by different names - so that's not redundant.

No. They each worship a different version. They are all three monotheistic, that is true, but they worship a different god. Jews worship the Jewish God or Adonai, Christians worship the Christian God, or God (or the Lord if you want), and Muslims worship the Islamic God, Allah.
It is true that Allah is the Arabic word for God, but there's a certain connotation with the Islamic God here in the west. Most of the people here talk about God if they are Christian, and if they are Jewish, they shall say Adonai, and Muslims are going to say Allah.

Now, back on the entire content of what I said...

[Kubumba Tribe]

Allah is the Arabic word for God. Muslims, Christians and Jews worship the same God - just call the Almighty by different names - so that's not redundant.

No. They each worship a different version. They are all three monotheistic, that is true, but they worship a different god. Jews worship the Jewish God or Adonai, Christians worship the Christian God, or God (or the Lord if you want), and Muslims worship the Islamic God, Allah.
It is true that Allah is the Arabic word for God, but there's a certain connotation with the Islamic God here in the west. Most of the people here talk about God if they are Christian, and if they are Jewish, they shall say Adonai, and Muslims are going to say Allah.

Now, back on the entire content of what I said...

But it's still the same God we all worship. I say God a lot of times too. i also say Allah. We all worship the same God and believe in the Day of Judgment. We just practice and interpret differently.

[Herargon]

No. They each worship a different version. They are all three monotheistic, that is true, but they worship a different god. Jews worship the Jewish God or Adonai, Christians worship the Christian God, or God (or the Lord if you want), and Muslims worship the Islamic God, Allah.
It is true that Allah is the Arabic word for God, but there's a certain connotation with the Islamic God here in the west. Most of the people here talk about God if they are Christian, and if they are Jewish, they shall say Adonai, and Muslims are going to say Allah.

Now, back on the entire content of what I said...

But it's still the same God we all worship. I say God a lot of times too. i also say Allah. We all worship the same God and believe in the Day of Judgment. We just practice and interpret differently.

No, we do not worship the same God. It is a different one. Nothing is wrong with that.
If we really worshipped the same God, yet interpreted it differently, then we would have a less different mindset. Christians are Christians because they mainly base their ideas off the teachings of Jesus Christ, while Muslims mainly base it upon Muhammad's teachings, whilst Jews base their own upon Abraham's ideas. Although they do all refer to Abraham, the differences are so large that they aren't just different denominations of one 'World Monotheism', but three different religions.

[Gauthier]

Veils can be used to hide the identity of terrorists.

As shown in Paris and Belgium.