[US Election 2016] Democratic Primary Megathread III

[Galloism]

Sadly, he's right.

Women have substantial societal privilege when it comes to criminal justice, much as white people do.

so what?

mrs Clinton wrote an editorial about women in prison. there is no problem with that.

So if Trump writes an editorial about good white people in prison, there will be no problem with that.

[Senkaku]

i'm supposedly a misogynistic MRA.

Idk why you're qualifying it with "supposedly" but yes Ostro we all know about how much you hate feminism and stuff, you've made your obligatory MRA Hillary is an ebul feminist post. Next time you can probably just straight up copy Trump.

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/04/27/opini ... on-crisis/

The most stunning thing about her argument is that she lists off how most of the women in prison:

Are non-violent offenders
come from poor backgrounds
have drug problems

As arguments why women specifically should have different treatment.

At one point she also brings up how women are more likely to have custody of their children and so should get lesser sentences.

The entire speech is one long list of reasons why no man should vote for Clinton, and no woman should if she wants to consider herself in favor of equality of the sexes.

Saying "x is a problem" is not the same as saying "y is not a problem".

It is if you say it as shrilly as Hillary did. *nods*

You're desperately trying to point something out that just plain ain't there... unlike...say... Trump's sexism and misogyny which he has been liberally displaying for all to see.
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/4 ... ings-women

no no no, Trump is just telling it like it is because men in this country are facing discrimination and rampant sexism.

[Kelinfort]

so what?

mrs Clinton wrote an editorial about women in prison. there is no problem with that.

So if Trump writes an editorial about good white people in prison, there will be no problem with that.

Not really, to be honest.

Now if you say, "white people are disproportionately harmed by the prison system compares to black people," that's objectively false.

We focus on issues that only affect a minority of a group all the time. Not that we always should, but it's not a problem.

[Khadgar]

so what?

mrs Clinton wrote an editorial about women in prison. there is no problem with that.

So if Trump writes an editorial about good white people in prison, there will be no problem with that.

I'm sure there's no shortage of people in prison who are innocent, bet some of them are white. So, not really. Then again if Trump wrote an editorial I can't imagine he could go through the whole thing without insulting some minority group or another.

[Galloism]

So if Trump writes an editorial about good white people in prison, there will be no problem with that.

I'm sure there's no shortage of people in prison who are innocent, bet some of them are white. So, not really. Then again if Trump wrote an editorial I can't imagine he could go through the whole thing without insulting some minority group or another.

Well, the latter is no doubt true, but I very very very very seriously doubt all this protestation that everyone would be totally ok with writing an editorial bemoaning the number of white people in prison.

[Ostroeuropa]

so what?

mrs Clinton wrote an editorial about women in prison. there is no problem with that.

So if Trump writes an editorial about good white people in prison, there will be no problem with that.

It's not that simple. It's entirely legitimate to talk about women in prison. They have their own issues which need to be dealt with, and human rights abuses unique to them.
It's that clinton talked about the ways the prison system victimizes people in general, and then made out these were womens issues, accomplishing nothing but the erasure of male victims.

If she'd gone on in her article to talk about the ways prison effects women specifically, i could chalk the erasure up to merely explaining the totality of womens experience of prison.
But she didn't.

She didn't mention ANY of womens problems in prison that are unique to them. She just mentioned general prison problems that effect everybody.

It'd be like if I were to talk about "The problems facing white america." and mentioned gang violence and poverty, then just stopped talking.

[Ashmoria]

so what?

mrs Clinton wrote an editorial about women in prison. there is no problem with that.

But she didn't. She wrote an editorial about problems with the prison system that effect everybody, and then made out that these were womens problems.

but they ARE women's problems.

that they are not JUST women's problems is irrelevant.

[Ashmoria]

so what?

mrs Clinton wrote an editorial about women in prison. there is no problem with that.

So if Trump writes an editorial about good white people in prison, there will be no problem with that.

it would depend on what he wrote, wouldn't it?

[Ostroeuropa]

but they ARE women's problems.

that they are not JUST women's problems is irrelevant.

Why only mention womens problems which are also mens problems? Why not any specific womens problems?
What purpose could it serve to focus on gender in such a way?

The only reason to talk about a specific demographics problems is to point out that they have experiences and needs different to other ones.

If you decide to have a talk about the black community and spend an entire article revealing the shocking truth that they need food and water, why did you bring up the race?

As Tahar pointed out, Clintons campaign has been playing up the woman angle pretty heavily.

[Galloism]

So if Trump writes an editorial about good white people in prison, there will be no problem with that.

it would depend on what he wrote, wouldn't it?

How about if he wrote about a bunch of problems that affect both white and black prisoners, but kept saying they were white peoples' problems.

[Khadgar]

I'm sure there's no shortage of people in prison who are innocent, bet some of them are white. So, not really. Then again if Trump wrote an editorial I can't imagine he could go through the whole thing without insulting some minority group or another.

Well, the latter is no doubt true, but I very very very very seriously doubt all this protestation that everyone would be totally ok with writing an editorial bemoaning the number of white people in prison.

Did you skip all the posts before this lamenting the fact we incarcerate disproportionately? None of them were broken down to only specific race or genders.

[Ostroeuropa]

Whatever, i'm done talking about it. Bernies only shot is if she gets indicted anyway, so it's not like gaffes or policy problems are going to change the primaries.

[Ashmoria]

but they ARE women's problems.

that they are not JUST women's problems is irrelevant.

Why only mention womens problems which are also mens problems? Why not any specific womens problems?
What purpose could it serve to focus on gender in such a way?

The only reason to talk about a specific demographics problems is to point out that they have experiences and needs different to other ones.

If you decide to have a talk about the black community and spend an entire article revealing the shocking truth that they need food and water, why did you bring up the race?

As Tahar pointed out, Clintons campaign has been playing up the woman angle pretty heavily.

why not write what YOU would write, eh? she wrote an editorial on women in prison. that's all. she didn't write about how men deserve what they get in prison or why no woman should ever be incarcerated. she wrote about a certain subject. she doesn't have to write about anything else.

[Ashmoria]

it would depend on what he wrote, wouldn't it?

How about if he wrote about a bunch of problems that affect both white and black prisoners, but kept saying they were white peoples' problems.

it would depend on what he wrote.

ill worry about that when it happens.

[Galloism]

Well, the latter is no doubt true, but I very very very very seriously doubt all this protestation that everyone would be totally ok with writing an editorial bemoaning the number of white people in prison.

Did you skip all the posts before this lamenting the fact we incarcerate disproportionately? None of them were broken down to only specific race or genders.

I'm just going by the article linked.

Things like this are great gems:

he high number of women in prison — and the long lengths of their sentences — destabilizes families and communities, especially their children.

Women are sentenced disproportionately less than men on the basis of their gender. Bemoaning that women get long sentences is like bemoaning white people get long sentences. Both, in fact, get a 'bonus' for their gender and/or race.

[Valaran]

What even is this thread right now.

[Ashmoria]

what I really want to know is

do people regularly write editorials for cnn.com? I had no idea that such things existed.

[Ostroeuropa]

what I really want to know is

do people regularly write editorials for cnn.com? I had no idea that such things existed.

Both trump and sanders have written editorials for other news sites during this particular cycle, so it's not too out of the ordinary, whether Clintons choice of site says anything is probably not knowable either way, though I have suspicions.

Under the circumstances, an editorial submitted by a presidential candidate for a major party is newsworthy, provided they don't do it too often. I expect CNN will have made it clear they are prepared to submit editorials from any candidate tbh.

[Ashmoria]

what I really want to know is

do people regularly write editorials for cnn.com? I had no idea that such things existed.

Both trump and sanders have written editorials for other news sites during this particular cycle, so it's not too out of the ordinary, whether Clintons choice of site says anything is probably not knowable either way, though I have suspicions.

Under the circumstances, an editorial submitted by a presidential candidate for a major party is newsworthy, provided they don't do it too often. I expect CNN will have made it clear they are prepared to submit editorials from any candidate tbh.

did you find the article on cnn yourself? do check cnn for editorials?

personally I avoid cnn.com because it loads slowly.

[Khadgar]

Both trump and sanders have written editorials for other news sites during this particular cycle, so it's not too out of the ordinary, whether Clintons choice of site says anything is probably not knowable either way, though I have suspicions.

Under the circumstances, an editorial submitted by a presidential candidate for a major party is newsworthy, provided they don't do it too often. I expect CNN will have made it clear they are prepared to submit editorials from any candidate tbh.

did you find the article on cnn yourself? do check cnn for editorials?

personally I avoid cnn.com because it loads slowly.

I found it way at the bottom in the politics section. I avoid CNN because their layout is horrible and their site tends to auto-play video. If you disable the scripts allowing videos to play the website doesn't load correctly and occasionally doesn't load at all. Awful really.

[Guy]

Did you skip all the posts before this lamenting the fact we incarcerate disproportionately? None of them were broken down to only specific race or genders.

I'm just going by the article linked.

Things like this are great gems:

he high number of women in prison — and the long lengths of their sentences — destabilizes families and communities, especially their children.

Women are sentenced disproportionately less than men on the basis of their gender. Bemoaning that women get long sentences is like bemoaning white people get long sentences. Both, in fact, get a 'bonus' for their gender and/or race.

Except that there are ways to justify lower sentences for women, as well as distinguish particular issues that only affect women in sentencing (such as caring for family, etc). This is nothing like complaining white people get harsh sentences.

[Galloism]

Except that there are ways to justify lower sentences for women, as well as distinguish particular issues that only affect women in sentencing (such as caring for family, etc). This is nothing like complaining white people get harsh sentences.

Actually it is, unless you ALSO sexistly believe that mothers are more important to families than fathers.

[Ostroeuropa]

Both trump and sanders have written editorials for other news sites during this particular cycle, so it's not too out of the ordinary, whether Clintons choice of site says anything is probably not knowable either way, though I have suspicions.

Under the circumstances, an editorial submitted by a presidential candidate for a major party is newsworthy, provided they don't do it too often. I expect CNN will have made it clear they are prepared to submit editorials from any candidate tbh.

did you find the article on cnn yourself? do check cnn for editorials?

personally I avoid cnn.com because it loads slowly.

No, I got sent it by a friend. CNN is fairly crap though yeh.

[Senkaku]

Both trump and sanders have written editorials for other news sites during this particular cycle, so it's not too out of the ordinary, whether Clintons choice of site says anything is probably not knowable either way, though I have suspicions.

What does this even mean

What even is this thread right now.

Ostro needed another platform to rant about MRA crap, as far as I can tell.

[Ashmoria]

did you find the article on cnn yourself? do check cnn for editorials?

personally I avoid cnn.com because it loads slowly.

I found it way at the bottom in the politics section. I avoid CNN because their layout is horrible and their site tends to auto-play video. If you disable the scripts allowing videos to play the website doesn't load correctly and occasionally doesn't load at all. Awful really.

*eyes khadgar suspiciously*

what were you doing at the bottom of the politics section then?

I would have expected it to be on politico or huffington post. cnn.com seems a bad choice.