Abortion: Pro-Choice or Pro-Life?

[Conservative Republic Of Huang]

Ok, so the truth is that all fetuses are subhuman parasites that deserve to die?

Pro-Choicers are literally the worst.

Oh, they are human. They are parasites. They deserve to die? They don't deserve to die, but they don't don't deserve to die. In essence, their life is in the middle. Also, you'll note that Pro-choice≠ Pro-abortion, therefore preventing you from drawing the final conclusion of yours from the end of your strawman.

Afterthought:https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman

[Wallenburg]

In the year 2000, 42 million cows and calves were slaughtered in the US alone. Your point?

Also, it isn't murder to have an abortion. Please, look up the definition of "murder".

...Murder is the unlawful killing of another human being without justification. It is done with malice aforethought...
(https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder)

Unlawfull killing: isn't all killing except death penalty unlawfull?

No, it is not. Self defense. Defense of another. Accidental homicide. Abortion.

Another human being: fetus are human.

...In human development, a fetus or foetus (/ˈfiːtəs/; plural fetuses or foetuses) is a prenatal human between its embryonic state and its birth....
(https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetus)

Malice aforethought: yes, a abortian isn't incidental.

Abortion fits the description of murder.

No, it does not. Abortion is not illegal.

[Purple Empire]

Holocaust: 6 million jews murdered.
Abortions only this year: 26 million unborn children murdered.

Who's bad???

http://www.worldometers.info/abortions/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_victims

unborn children

unbuilt building

unmade car

Wait, i have changed someone's post because I don't have somewhat usefull to say?!?!?

[Soldati Senza Confini]

In the year 2000, 42 million cows and calves were slaughtered in the US alone. Your point?

Also, it isn't murder to have an abortion. Please, look up the definition of "murder".

...Murder is the unlawful killing of another human being without justification. It is done with malice aforethought...
(https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder)

Unlawfull killing: isn't all killing except death penalty unlawfull?

Another human being: fetus are human.

...In human development, a fetus or foetus (/ˈfiːtəs/; plural fetuses or foetuses) is a prenatal human between its embryonic state and its birth....
(https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetus)

Malice aforethought: yes, a abortian isn't incidental.

Abortion fits the description of murder.

So is shooting someone in self-defense, stabbing them in self-defense, and many other things done in self-defense.

Killing in self-defense is not unlawful, but this is not why abortion is legal. The reason abortion is legal is predicated upon the right of medical privacy between a patient and her doctor, which is what women have with their ob/gyn. Plus, even with the "humanity" argument, the law is not based upon genetics, it is based upon the concept of personhood. Anything without legal personhood is not protected by the laws of a country, and the definition of personhood varies from country to country. In the United States and most other countries, personhood starts upon birth, not upon conception. Therefore it doesn't have any of the rights another person has.

[Godular]

In the year 2000, 42 million cows and calves were slaughtered in the US alone. Your point?

Also, it isn't murder to have an abortion. Please, look up the definition of "murder".

...Murder is the unlawful killing of another human being without justification. It is done with malice aforethought...
(https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder)

Unlawfull killing: isn't all killing except death penalty unlawfull?

Another human being: fetus are human.

...In human development, a fetus or foetus (/ˈfiːtəs/; plural fetuses or foetuses) is a prenatal human between its embryonic state and its birth....
(https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetus)

Malice aforethought: yes, a abortian isn't incidental.

Abortion fits the description of murder.

Disn't read the OP +1

[Soldati Senza Confini]

...Murder is the unlawful killing of another human being without justification. It is done with malice aforethought...
(https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder)

Unlawfull killing: isn't all killing except death penalty unlawfull?

No, it is not. Self defense. Defense of another. Accidental homicide. Abortion.

Isn't accidental homicide the same as manslaughter?!

[Wallenburg]

No, it is not. Self defense. Defense of another. Accidental homicide. Abortion.

Isn't accidental homicide the same as manslaughter?!

Some forms of manslaughter are criminally negligent, some are not.

[Godular]

No, it is not. Self defense. Defense of another. Accidental homicide. Abortion.

Isn't accidental homicide the same as manslaughter?!

No.

[Conservative Republic Of Huang]

Wait, i have changed someone's post because I don't have somewhat usefull to say?!?!?

You realize that it is simply an indirect way of showing you the parallels?

[Renewed Imperial Germany]

Wait, i have changed someone's post because I don't have somewhat usefull to say?!?!?

No actually he was making a point about your nonsensical term 'unborn child,' but you didn't have an argument so you attacked his methods.

[United Syria]

Get the fuck out. Now. I completely refuse the idea that the fetus is a parasite. With that logic we were all once parasites posing as severe health risks to our mothers, including YOU.

Uh-huh. Your right. I was once a parasite. My mother could have aborted me if she wanted and that woulda been perfectly fine.

Oh yes, it definitely would have. This is one of the very few circumstances where I support abortion

[Socialist Nordia]

Uh-huh. Your right. I was once a parasite. My mother could have aborted me if she wanted and that woulda been perfectly fine.

Oh yes, it definitely would have. This is one of the very few circumstances where I support abortion

Good. You're convinced.

But hoestly, it's not up for debate: no matter what you believe, you cannot deny that foetuses feed off of the woman in a way akin to a parasite.

[Ifreann]

Holocaust: 6 million jews murdered.
Abortions only this year: 26 million unborn children murdered.

Who's bad???

This guy.

[Aegis Prime]

Fine I may be wrong, after all i havent looked at all the research myself. But whether it feels pain or not doesnt detract from the fact that a life is being forcefully ended.

same with your meat. I don't see nearly as much vegitarians as I do pro-lifers.

Why would I be a vegetarian, humans are omnivores. Farm animals die for us to feed on them, what do aborted babies die for? Being unwanted after being conceived irresponsibly?

[The V O I D]

Aegis, what you seem to lack in understanding is that the women were responsible in most cases. They used all the right protections, as did their partner. But contraceptives aren't 100% foolproof, and even then, sometimes sex occurs while - shocker - drunk as hell, when consent becomes a grey area and some states consider it rape if the woman decides to press charges since she couldn't soberly consent.

Because most cases of unwanted pregnancy occur from these sorts of incidents, fetuses are aborted for being unwanted. Because sometimes, contraceptives fail. Pregnancy can be unwanted and, sometimes, it's not even consensual (see: drunken sex [grey-area for consent], rape, etc.).

[Conservative Republic Of Huang]

same with your meat. I don't see nearly as much vegitarians as I do pro-lifers.

Why would I be a vegetarian, humans are omnivores. Farm animals die for us to feed on them, what do aborted babies die for? Being unwanted after being conceived irresponsibly?

Pretend the fetus is a robber. The robber takes your things, then pulls out a gun, pointing it at you, though not shooting. The robber does that for 8 months, before torturing you, and then leaving. Would you just stand there while your things were taken, and with a gun pointed at you?

Before someone says it is a bad analogy, I'm going to defend it. The robbing is the equivalent of the nutrients siphoned by the fetus through the umbilical cord. The gun pointed at your head, the ever present threat of death. Torture, labor. I think the 8 months thing is pretty obvious.

[Aegis Prime]

Aegis, what you seem to lack in understanding is that the women were responsible in most cases. They used all the right protections, as did their partner. But contraceptives aren't 100% foolproof, and even then, sometimes sex occurs while - shocker - drunk as hell, when consent becomes a grey area and some states consider it rape if the woman decides to press charges since she couldn't soberly consent.

Because most cases of unwanted pregnancy occur from these sorts of incidents, fetuses are aborted for being unwanted. Because sometimes, contraceptives fail. Pregnancy can be unwanted and, sometimes, it's not even consensual (see: drunken sex [grey-area for consent], rape, etc.).

Drunken sex= irresponsible

I will grant you birth control is not 100% effective but given that most are at least in the 95% range there shouldnt be as many unwanted pregnancies as we see.

[Godular]

Aegis, what you seem to lack in understanding is that the women were responsible in most cases. They used all the right protections, as did their partner. But contraceptives aren't 100% foolproof, and even then, sometimes sex occurs while - shocker - drunk as hell, when consent becomes a grey area and some states consider it rape if the woman decides to press charges since she couldn't soberly consent.

Because most cases of unwanted pregnancy occur from these sorts of incidents, fetuses are aborted for being unwanted. Because sometimes, contraceptives fail. Pregnancy can be unwanted and, sometimes, it's not even consensual (see: drunken sex [grey-area for consent], rape, etc.).

Drunken sex= irresponsible

I will grant you birth control is not 100% effective but given that most are at least in the 95% range there shouldnt be as many unwanted pregnancies as we see.

Acceptance of risk is not acceptance of the consequences. If somebody falls while climbing a tree and breaks their arm, it matters not whether they took all necessary precautions or not. That person can get treatment for their broken arm.

The fetus doesn't even enter into the equation.

[The V O I D]

Aegis, what you seem to lack in understanding is that the women were responsible in most cases. They used all the right protections, as did their partner. But contraceptives aren't 100% foolproof, and even then, sometimes sex occurs while - shocker - drunk as hell, when consent becomes a grey area and some states consider it rape if the woman decides to press charges since she couldn't soberly consent.

Because most cases of unwanted pregnancy occur from these sorts of incidents, fetuses are aborted for being unwanted. Because sometimes, contraceptives fail. Pregnancy can be unwanted and, sometimes, it's not even consensual (see: drunken sex [grey-area for consent], rape, etc.).

Drunken sex= irresponsible

I will grant you birth control is not 100% effective but given that most are at least in the 95% range there shouldnt be as many unwanted pregnancies as we see.

Some women just don't want to have kids. Recreational sex is a thing, y'know. Sex is fun. People do it. Usually with safety. The higher frequency with which they do it, the more likely statistically speaking that the protection may eventually fail. Therefor, unwanted pregnancy is the result. The reasons for which the pregnancy is unwanted may vary, but the point remains: it is unwanted.

Drunken sex isn't really the woman's fault, nor is it the man's. Both aren't really in any condition to be consenting, especially if they were not prepared or planning to have sex after drinking. This is why it is a grey area for consent - some states call it rape, if the woman wants to press charges. Other states don't. It's a big fat grey area. Point is, sometimes sex can happen if people have too much to drink. Since consent is a grey area with that, that means especially in cases of drunken sex, the woman should have a choice - since she didn't soberly consent to the sex in the first place.

[Aegis Prime]

Some women just don't want to have kids. Recreational sex is a thing, y'know. Sex is fun. People do it. Usually with safety. The higher frequency with which they do it, the more likely statistically speaking that the protection may eventually fail. Therefor, unwanted pregnancy is the result. The reasons for which the pregnancy is unwanted may vary, but the point remains: it is unwanted.

This once again i understand. Im not arguing against this argument.

Drunken sex isn't really the woman's fault, nor is it the man's. Both aren't really in any condition to be consenting, especially if they were not prepared or planning to have sex after drinking. This is why it is a grey area for consent - some states call it rape, if the woman wants to press charges. Other states don't. It's a big fat grey area. Point is, sometimes sex can happen if people have too much to drink. Since consent is a grey area with that, that means especially in cases of drunken sex, the woman should have a choice - since she didn't soberly consent to the sex in the first place.

This is where you loose me. So basically they chose to first get drunk and second to have sex. And you are saying its not their fault? Then whose is it?! Its obviously theirs. Fuck this culture of irresponsibility, no one wants to own up to anything!

[Conservative Republic Of Huang]

Some women just don't want to have kids. Recreational sex is a thing, y'know. Sex is fun. People do it. Usually with safety. The higher frequency with which they do it, the more likely statistically speaking that the protection may eventually fail. Therefor, unwanted pregnancy is the result. The reasons for which the pregnancy is unwanted may vary, but the point remains: it is unwanted.

This once again i understand. Im not arguing against this argument.

Drunken sex isn't really the woman's fault, nor is it the man's. Both aren't really in any condition to be consenting, especially if they were not prepared or planning to have sex after drinking. This is why it is a grey area for consent - some states call it rape, if the woman wants to press charges. Other states don't. It's a big fat grey area. Point is, sometimes sex can happen if people have too much to drink. Since consent is a grey area with that, that means especially in cases of drunken sex, the woman should have a choice - since she didn't soberly consent to the sex in the first place.

This is where you loose me. So basically they chose to first get drunk and second to have sex. And you are saying its not their fault? Then whose is it?! Its obviously theirs. Fuck this culture of irresponsibility, no one wants to own up to anything!

What happens is that they have sex in a state of drunkeness, which doesn't lend itself to rational thinking. That is the argument against you.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Wait, i have changed someone's post because I don't have somewhat usefull to say?!?!?

Just saying, if you have a pile of stuff and you're making something out of it, it's not that thing until you make it. An unborn child isn't a child, it's a fetus or embryo.

[The V O I D]

Some women just don't want to have kids. Recreational sex is a thing, y'know. Sex is fun. People do it. Usually with safety. The higher frequency with which they do it, the more likely statistically speaking that the protection may eventually fail. Therefor, unwanted pregnancy is the result. The reasons for which the pregnancy is unwanted may vary, but the point remains: it is unwanted.

This once again i understand. Im not arguing against this argument.

Drunken sex isn't really the woman's fault, nor is it the man's. Both aren't really in any condition to be consenting, especially if they were not prepared or planning to have sex after drinking. This is why it is a grey area for consent - some states call it rape, if the woman wants to press charges. Other states don't. It's a big fat grey area. Point is, sometimes sex can happen if people have too much to drink. Since consent is a grey area with that, that means especially in cases of drunken sex, the woman should have a choice - since she didn't soberly consent to the sex in the first place.

This is where you loose me. So basically they chose to first get drunk and second to have sex. And you are saying its not their fault? Then whose is it?! Its obviously theirs. Fuck this culture of irresponsibility, no one wants to own up to anything!

They chose to get drunk, yes; but because they were drunk, they could not make rational, sober choices; such as sober consent to sex. Hence why drunken sex can sometimes be called rape in some states if the woman presses charges.

[Godular]

Some women just don't want to have kids. Recreational sex is a thing, y'know. Sex is fun. People do it. Usually with safety. The higher frequency with which they do it, the more likely statistically speaking that the protection may eventually fail. Therefor, unwanted pregnancy is the result. The reasons for which the pregnancy is unwanted may vary, but the point remains: it is unwanted.

This once again i understand. Im not arguing against this argument.

Drunken sex isn't really the woman's fault, nor is it the man's. Both aren't really in any condition to be consenting, especially if they were not prepared or planning to have sex after drinking. This is why it is a grey area for consent - some states call it rape, if the woman wants to press charges. Other states don't. It's a big fat grey area. Point is, sometimes sex can happen if people have too much to drink. Since consent is a grey area with that, that means especially in cases of drunken sex, the woman should have a choice - since she didn't soberly consent to the sex in the first place.

This is where you loose me. So basically they chose to first get drunk and second to have sex. And you are saying its not their fault? Then whose is it?! Its obviously theirs. Fuck this culture of irresponsibility, no one wants to own up to anything!

I believe I addressed that.

[Talchyon]

So here's an argument for everyone.

At any stage of pregnancy, since the moment of conception, the fertilized egg has a unique set of DNA. Half the chromosomes from Mom, half the chromosomes from Dad, and it is clearly human since it is human DNA. But it is a different set of DNA than either Mom or Dad. Hence, the fertilized egg even at the moment of conception is a unique, human life.

Which would make abortion the willful ending of another's life.