Abortion: Pro-Choice or Pro-Life?

[Aegis Prime]

No, im sorry but fuck that. Abortion is not an easy choice and whilebi am against it i must respect a womans decition to carry one out. BUT I wholeheartedly reject the notion put forth by various posters that the unborn child is a parasite harming the mother and the mother is simply enacting self defense by aborting it. That notion devaluates the developing human being and distorts the reality of it by comparing it to defence from violent assault.

[Minosian papacy]

Firstly, the USconstitution says nothing about Abortion, save the 14th amendment, which explicitly states rights are granted to those born or naturalised in the United States. note, not conceived, but born.

Secondly,marauding about 'personhood' is irrelevant, as that's an undefined term to begin with.

What does matter is, is the zygote/foetus a life form unto itself? 'Alive' is irrelevant, as a spleen is alive, yet has no rights. But a spleen is not a life form unto itself.

So is a foetus? According to basic biology, no. Independent survivable to, otherwise known as viability, is a necessary criterion for determining a life form. A foetus gains this as about 23 to 24 weeks. This after that, it could be considered a life form. NOT coincidentally, that is where RvW, which was based (people seem to forget) on expert scientific consensus, draws the line for legal abortion of choice.

Abortion should be absolutely available and legal until 24 weeks, and subsequent to that, available only in case of exigent circumstances.

[Godular]

No, im sorry but fuck that. Abortion is not an easy choice and whilebi am against it i must respect a womans decition to carry one out.

Coo.

BUT I wholeheartedly reject the notion put forth by various posters that the unborn child is a parasite harming the mother and the mother is simply enacting self defense by aborting it. That notion devaluates the developing human being and distorts the reality of it by comparing it to defence from violent assault.

Which it is in all practical senses alike. The presence of malice, intent, or innocence are irrelevant concerns before the fact that harm IS being done. If the woman does not consent to this, denying the right to rectify the situation is egregiously unjust.

[Minosian papacy]

Do you believe the government should be capable of forcing someone to give up a kidney for transplant?

Think about it. You can survive easily on one kidney (my brother in law does it), it is at best an inconvenience. Yet by denying that forced kidney transplant, you are literally killing someone. People on the kidney transplant waiting list die by the thousands every year.

So why should the government not be able to force you to suffer an inconvenience in order to save a life?

Because bodily sovereignty is paramount. The rights of other cannot be used to compel someone to violate their bodily sovereignty. And that's in the case of real, actual people with rights, not a cluster of cells which might end up being an actual person someday.

The person needing the kidney has a genuine right to life. So if you are pro life, why are you not also pro-forced-organ donation?

[Wallenburg]

I disagree with abortion because it's a lie

So abortions don't kill fetuses?

and "Her body, her choice" is a lie, the Fetus has a separate blood type and separate DNA because there is a policy that's saying to separate the unborn child from the mother's DNA to prevent diseases, and before you say this is irrelevant or what is the source, read this: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/ ... -womb.html
Just because the baby is inside of the Woman it doesn't mean it's a copy of her, think of it like in a car, you are in a car, but you aren't part of it, you just rely on aspects of the car to keep you alive.

Nobody claims that the fetus is a copy of the mother. That the fetus is a separate organism does not make it immune to the mother's right of bodily sovereignty.

[Conservative Republic Of Huang]

Fine I may be wrong, after all i havent looked at all the research myself. But whether it feels pain or not doesnt detract from the fact that a life is being forcefully ended.

same with your meat. I don't see nearly as much vegitarians as I do pro-lifers.

[Purple Empire]

Holocaust: 6 million jews murdered.
Abortions only this year: 26 million unborn children murdered.

Who's bad???

http://www.worldometers.info/abortions/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_victims

[Wallenburg]

Holocaust: 6 million jews murdered.
Abortions only this year: 26 million unborn children murdered.

Who's bad???

http://www.worldometers.info/abortions/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_victims

In the year 2000, 42 million cows and calves were slaughtered in the US alone. Your point?

Also, it isn't murder to have an abortion. Please, look up the definition of "murder".

[Conservative Republic Of Huang]

Holocaust: 6 million jews murdered.
Abortions only this year: 26 million unborn children murdered.

Who's bad???

http://www.worldometers.info/abortions/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_victims

A fetus is not equal to a born, living, productive person.
A fetus is simply a parisite, stealing resources from the mother.
A pregnancy is a medical condition, just like being infected by a tapeworm.
We have the right to remove a tapeworm.
Why not with a fetus, who poses more severe medical consequences?

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Holocaust: 6 million jews murdered.
Abortions only this year: 26 million unborn children murdered.

Who's bad???

http://www.worldometers.info/abortions/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_victims

unborn children

unbuilt building

unmade car

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Holocaust: 6 million jews murdered.
Abortions only this year: 26 million unborn children murdered.

Who's bad???

http://www.worldometers.info/abortions/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_victims

A fetus is not equal to a born, living, productive person.
A fetus is simply a parisite, stealing resources from the mother.
A pregnancy is a medical condition, just like being infected by a tapeworm.
We have the right to remove a tapeworm.
Why not with a fetus, who poses more severe medical consequences?

Pretty sure tapeworms have more severe medical consequences.

[Godular]

A fetus is not equal to a born, living, productive person.
A fetus is simply a parisite, stealing resources from the mother.
A pregnancy is a medical condition, just like being infected by a tapeworm.
We have the right to remove a tapeworm.
Why not with a fetus, who poses more severe medical consequences?

Pretty sure tapeworms have more severe medical consequences.

That is debatable. At best I would say they have the same ramifications, which is the more pertinent consideration.

[United Syria]

Holocaust: 6 million jews murdered.
Abortions only this year: 26 million unborn children murdered.

Who's bad???

http://www.worldometers.info/abortions/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_victims

A fetus is not equal to a born, living, productive person.
A fetus is simply a parisite, stealing resources from the mother.
A pregnancy is a medical condition, just like being infected by a tapeworm.
We have the right to remove a tapeworm.
Why not with a fetus, who poses more severe medical consequences?

Get the fuck out. Now. I completely refuse the idea that the fetus is a parasite. With that logic we were all once parasites posing as severe health risks to our mothers, including YOU.

[Conservative Republic Of Huang]

A fetus is not equal to a born, living, productive person.
A fetus is simply a parisite, stealing resources from the mother.
A pregnancy is a medical condition, just like being infected by a tapeworm.
We have the right to remove a tapeworm.
Why not with a fetus, who poses more severe medical consequences?

Pretty sure tapeworms have more severe medical consequences.

I'm ignoring Cysticercosis.

[Conservative Republic Of Huang]

A fetus is not equal to a born, living, productive person.
A fetus is simply a parisite, stealing resources from the mother.
A pregnancy is a medical condition, just like being infected by a tapeworm.
We have the right to remove a tapeworm.
Why not with a fetus, who poses more severe medical consequences?

Get the fuck out. Now. I completely refuse the idea that the fetus is a parasite. With that logic we were all once parasites posing as severe health risks to our mothers, including YOU.

Because we were. Also, I'd like to remind you to be civil.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

A fetus is not equal to a born, living, productive person.
A fetus is simply a parisite, stealing resources from the mother.
A pregnancy is a medical condition, just like being infected by a tapeworm.
We have the right to remove a tapeworm.
Why not with a fetus, who poses more severe medical consequences?

Get the fuck out. Now. I completely refuse the idea that the fetus is a parasite. With that logic we were all once parasites posing as severe health risks to our mothers, including YOU.

Uh, the fetus can be medically considered as a parasite, or as a parasitically symbiotic organism while in utero.

They depend on the mother for nutrients and their life, but they contribute less to the mother in benefits than they do in costs to her body.

[Godular]

A fetus is not equal to a born, living, productive person.
A fetus is simply a parisite, stealing resources from the mother.
A pregnancy is a medical condition, just like being infected by a tapeworm.
We have the right to remove a tapeworm.
Why not with a fetus, who poses more severe medical consequences?

Get the fuck out. Now. I completely refuse the idea that the fetus is a parasite. With that logic we were all once parasites posing as severe health risks to our mothers, including YOU.

You say that as if it is going to make us gasp in some kind of righteous indignation. It will not. We recognize the truth, while you refuse to acknowledge it because it is unpleasant.

[Wallenburg]

A fetus is not equal to a born, living, productive person.
A fetus is simply a parisite, stealing resources from the mother.
A pregnancy is a medical condition, just like being infected by a tapeworm.
We have the right to remove a tapeworm.
Why not with a fetus, who poses more severe medical consequences?

Get the fuck out. Now.

Uncivil hatred for opinions other than your own will get you nowhere.

I completely refuse the idea that the fetus is a parasite. With that logic we were all once parasites posing as severe health risks to our mothers, including YOU.

Yes we were.

[United Syria]

Ok, so the truth is that all fetuses are subhuman parasites that deserve to die?

Pro-Choicers are literally the worst.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Ok, so the truth is that all fetuses are subhuman parasites

Yes.

that deserve to die?

No.

[Godular]

Ok, so the truth is that all fetuses are subhuman parasites that deserve to die?

Subhuman or not is an irrelevant distinction. No person has the right to use another person's body against their will.

Pro-Choicers are literally the worst.

I find them quite forward thinking, quite unlike the anachronistic and misogynistic positions of certain pro-life posters in this thread. Hiding behind moral indignation will not aid your cause.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Ok, so the truth is that all fetuses are subhuman parasites that deserve to die?

Pro-Choicers are literally the worst.

Where do you get that we are saying that they are subhuman parasites that deserve to die?

The description of a fetus as a parasite is medically accurate.

That doesn't mean we don't think the fetus is human. That'd be disingenuous. It is simply not a human being as we know it, and therefore nothing of value is lost during an abortion other than the idea of having a child. But an idea is not a reality. A woman, and her partner, many times do feel crushed over not being able to have a child, but they're hurt over their disappointment at their plans for the future being dashed, just like any other normal adult.

[Purple Empire]

Holocaust: 6 million jews murdered.
Abortions only this year: 26 million unborn children murdered.

Who's bad???

http://www.worldometers.info/abortions/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_victims

In the year 2000, 42 million cows and calves were slaughtered in the US alone. Your point?

Also, it isn't murder to have an abortion. Please, look up the definition of "murder".

...Murder is the unlawful killing of another human being without justification. It is done with malice aforethought...
(https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder)

Unlawfull killing: isn't all killing except death penalty unlawfull?

Another human being: fetus are human.

...In human development, a fetus or foetus (/ˈfiːtəs/; plural fetuses or foetuses) is a prenatal human between its embryonic state and its birth....
(https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetus)

Malice aforethought: yes, a abortian isn't incidental.

Abortion fits the description of murder.

[Renewed Imperial Germany]

A fetus is not equal to a born, living, productive person.
A fetus is simply a parisite, stealing resources from the mother.
A pregnancy is a medical condition, just like being infected by a tapeworm.
We have the right to remove a tapeworm.
Why not with a fetus, who poses more severe medical consequences?

Get the fuck out. Now. I completely refuse the idea that the fetus is a parasite. With that logic we were all once parasites posing as severe health risks to our mothers, including YOU.

Uh-huh. Your right. I was once a parasite. My mother could have aborted me if she wanted and that woulda been perfectly fine.

[Wallenburg]

Ok, so the truth is that all fetuses are subhuman parasites that deserve to die?

http://www.yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman

Pro-Choicers are literally the worst.

Nice flamebait.