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Abortion: Pro-Choice or Pro-Life?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Where do you stand on this issue?

Her body, her choice - (pro-choice)
355
49%
Personally against, but I respect the decisions of others - (pro-choice)
79
11%
Ban certain procedures, but keep legal as a rule - (fluctuates)
36
5%
Only under certain conditions (rape/incest/etc) - (pro-life)
178
24%
Ban entirely - (pro-life)
79
11%
 
Total votes : 727

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Godular
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Postby Godular » Sat Aug 20, 2016 7:36 am

The word you want is distinguish or separate, stojam. To distinguish whose dna is whose in order to determine if the fetus has any abnormalities present.

Even so, such is an irrelevant concern. All it highlights is that it is wrong to think that a woman considers getting an abortion a light decision. It is most assuredly not. The woman has to consider her economic situation, whether she is mentally or physically ready for the issues that pregnancy brings about (including the possible arrival of a baby), or whether she wants her life to very suddenly be defined by the thing between her legs and what can issue forth from it.

Some women may choose to carry the pregnancy to term because they have a family willing to assist with child rearing and the obligations inherent to it are lessened sufficiently that the woman can pursue her vision in life.

But such is not at all a universal situation. Different women have different life situations, cultures, and priorities, and childbearing at that stage in their lives might not be the best thing for them. It might be too much of a strain upon the woman for any number of reasons that are of eminent importance to them.

You might disagree with their reasons, but it is neither your business or prerogative to do so.

A while back somebody said that a baby is a 'gift from god'. I will note the insult caused when somebody forces an unwanted 'gift' on another person. Just because one might think it a gift does not make it one for all.
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Aegis Prime
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Postby Aegis Prime » Sat Aug 20, 2016 7:36 am

Would the demand for social workers not go down with the reduced pregnancies due to the aforementioned sexual education and birth control programs?

I am fully aware that something like i proposed would be hard to implement. But I believe we should do everything we can to protect the innocent life of a baby and I also believe in personal responsibility and owning up to your choices.

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Neutraligon
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Postby Neutraligon » Sat Aug 20, 2016 7:39 am

Aegis Prime wrote:Would the demand for social workers not go down with the reduced pregnancies due to the aforementioned sexual education and birth control programs?

I am fully aware that something like i proposed would be hard to implement. But I believe we should do everything we can to protect the innocent life of a baby and I also believe in personal responsibility and owning up to your choices.

I find abortion to be taking personal responsibility and "owning up" to your choices. And, it would be unlikely to fall drastically.
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Godular
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Postby Godular » Sat Aug 20, 2016 7:39 am

Aegis Prime wrote:
Aegis Prime wrote:My point of view is this basically: I am pro life, but I am not ignorant to facts.

making abortion illegal only pushes that activity to the underground (as anything else) BUT there should be stricter regulations on abortion. We live in a time where we have more options that ever before, from birth control to condoms etc.. With that in mind abortion should be the very last resort.

It should be legal to go ahead with the procedure if the mothers life is in danger (determined by the physician) if she was raped (with the corresponding court order) and also incest. For abortions due to elective reasons (economic, not ready, etc...) the mother should have to get the go ahead from a social worker (make it case by case basis) and make it so the earlier the pregnancy is the higher likelyhood that they could get the go ahead to perform an abortion. Also have a cut-off time where if healthy and not a unique circumstance an abortion cannot be legally performed.

Basically a system that awards responsibility. Also I must note that the government should have no responsibility to pay for the procedure, only to provide the aforementioned social services of advising and evaluating cases.

How about this. The above policy stays the same but now the government subsidizes and provides sexual education programs and birth control for the citizens. Making abortion a very last resort by providing preventive means.

Tell me your thoughts on this.


Or you could cut out that restrictive policy altogether, put in sex ed and free contraception for all, and thereby reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies without once violating the woman's right to control her own body.

That'd work.
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Stojam
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Postby Stojam » Sat Aug 20, 2016 7:44 am

Back again!
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Aegis Prime
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Postby Aegis Prime » Sat Aug 20, 2016 7:46 am

Question: How much do you value the life of The Unborn Child? Whether you think the fetus is human or not a life is being ended regardless.

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Ashmoria
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Founded: Mar 19, 2004
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Postby Ashmoria » Sat Aug 20, 2016 7:46 am

Aegis Prime wrote:Would the demand for social workers not go down with the reduced pregnancies due to the aforementioned sexual education and birth control programs?

I am fully aware that something like i proposed would be hard to implement. But I believe we should do everything we can to protect the innocent life of a baby and I also believe in personal responsibility and owning up to your choices.

interesting

I believe in freedom and allowing women to make their own decisions about their lives and their families.
whatever

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Stojam
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Postby Stojam » Sat Aug 20, 2016 7:48 am

Aegis Prime wrote:Question: How much do you value the life of The Unborn Child? Whether you think the fetus is human or not a life is being ended regardless.


I think that a life of a the unborn child is very valuable, it's not a Human waste, it's a stage of Human reproduction and should be treated like a Human, all creatures die at the end, but to end the life when he is not born yet? This is not good in my opinion, tell me your thoughts about this.
Last edited by Stojam on Sat Aug 20, 2016 7:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Neutraligon
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Postby Neutraligon » Sat Aug 20, 2016 7:50 am

Aegis Prime wrote:Question: How much do you value the life of The Unborn Child? Whether you think the fetus is human or not a life is being ended regardless.

Not an easy question to answer. I hold the rights of the woman over whether she remains pregnant to be more important then the not-born. However, the second the mother decides she is keeping it, I value it about as much as I value any other stranger.
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Ashmoria
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Postby Ashmoria » Sat Aug 20, 2016 7:53 am

Aegis Prime wrote:Question: How much do you value the life of The Unborn Child? Whether you think the fetus is human or not a life is being ended regardless.

it has no value other than that which the woman decides it has.

its chance at life it being ended. *shrug*
whatever

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Aegis Prime
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Postby Aegis Prime » Sat Aug 20, 2016 7:53 am

We have laws to protect children and they can be taken away from their families. Shouldnt there be some measure of legal protection for an unborn child? Or is that life worthless until it is outside the mother suddenly gaining legal protection.

Not sure on this but if someone murders a pregnant woman doesnt that count as double murder.

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Stojam
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Postby Stojam » Sat Aug 20, 2016 7:53 am

Question: Is the fetus a part of the Woman? Because research shows that Fetuses have different blood types and different DNA from the Mother.
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Neutraligon
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Postby Neutraligon » Sat Aug 20, 2016 7:54 am

Stojam wrote:Question: Is the fetus a part of the Woman? Because research shows that Fetuses have different blood types and different DNA from the Mother.

I would say that until it is viable it is effectively a part of the woman.
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Ashmoria
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Postby Ashmoria » Sat Aug 20, 2016 7:54 am

Stojam wrote:Question: Is the fetus a part of the Woman? Because research shows that Fetuses have different blood types and different DNA from the Mother.


and yet the woman has the right to control her own body.
whatever

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Socialist Nordia
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Postby Socialist Nordia » Sat Aug 20, 2016 7:55 am

Aegis Prime wrote:Question: How much do you value the life of The Unborn Child? Whether you think the fetus is human or not a life is being ended regardless.

Somewhat valuable, but regardless of how much it is valued, you can't argue that it is still parasitically feeding off of the woman's bodily resources and causing certain forms of harm to the body. A born person is not allowed to do such things and don't have a right to use another's body, so the unborn also do not get that right unless they have the consent of the woman in question. Usually they do, since many people want to be mothers. Sometimes they don't, so she has the right to self defence If any form of life- born or unborn- is using her body in harmful ways without consent.
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Neutraligon
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Postby Neutraligon » Sat Aug 20, 2016 7:55 am

Aegis Prime wrote:We have laws to protect children and they can be taken away from their families. Shouldnt there be some measure of legal protection for an unborn child? Or is that life worthless until it is outside the mother suddenly gaining legal protection.

Not sure on this but if someone murders a pregnant woman doesnt that count as double murder.

No, because the laws that protect the children do not do so at the expense of the right of bodily sovereignty of the parent. Simply put the comparison is a bad one.
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Godular
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Postby Godular » Sat Aug 20, 2016 7:55 am

Aegis Prime wrote:Question: How much do you value the life of The Unborn Child? Whether you think the fetus is human or not a life is being ended regardless.


I consider the life of the unborn child important only insofar as the woman chooses to keep the pregnancy. I trust the woman to make the responsible decision regarding her welfare and that of any potential child. Getting an abortion does not preclude the woman from having children on her own terms at a later date.
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Socialist Nordia
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Postby Socialist Nordia » Sat Aug 20, 2016 7:56 am

Stojam wrote:Question: Is the fetus a part of the Woman? Because research shows that Fetuses have different blood types and different DNA from the Mother.

Not necessarily a part of the woman, but it is fully dependant on her body. Without utilising the mother's body, the foetus could not survive.
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Stojam
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Postby Stojam » Sat Aug 20, 2016 7:56 am

I believe that Abortion is not good, not because Morals, because the child suffers even more, he feels painfull Physical pain.
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Godular
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Postby Godular » Sat Aug 20, 2016 7:57 am

Stojam wrote:Question: Is the fetus a part of the Woman? Because research shows that Fetuses have different blood types and different DNA from the Mother.


Irrelevant. It resides within and draws sustenance from the woman. If the woman does not wish this to continue, it is wrong to deny her the capacity to rectify the situation.
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Faction 1: The An'Kazar Control Framework of Godular-- An enormously advanced collective of formerly human bioborgs that are vastly experienced in both inter-dimensional travel and asymmetrical warfare.
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Stojam
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Postby Stojam » Sat Aug 20, 2016 7:59 am

Why to say all the time irrelevant! It's my own question, you cannot say everything is irrelevant.
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(-_Q) If you support capitalism, put this in your signature.
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Neutraligon
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Postby Neutraligon » Sat Aug 20, 2016 7:59 am

Stojam wrote:I believe that Abortion is not good, not because Morals, because the child suffers even more, he feels painfull Physical pain.

Up until a certain point the fetus cannot feel pain. I believe that the connections start occurring at around the time of viability which is around 24 weeks. Interestingly enough most abortions happen long before this. Abortions that happen after this part are mostly due to the pregnancy risking the life of the woman.
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Ashmoria
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Postby Ashmoria » Sat Aug 20, 2016 7:59 am

Stojam wrote:I believe that Abortion is not good, not because Morals, because the child suffers even more, he feels painfull Physical pain.

in the vast majority of cases that is just not true.
whatever

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Godular
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Godular » Sat Aug 20, 2016 8:00 am

Stojam wrote:I believe that Abortion is not good, not because Morals, because the child suffers even more, he feels painfull Physical pain.


No it does not. It feel nothing until nearly six months into the pregnancy.
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Faction 1: The An'Kazar Control Framework of Godular-- An enormously advanced collective of formerly human bioborgs that are vastly experienced in both inter-dimensional travel and asymmetrical warfare.
A 1.08 civilization, according to this Nation Index Thingie
A 0.076 (or 0.067) civilization, according to THIS Nation Index Thingie
I don't normally use NS stats. But when I do, I prefer Dos Eckis I can STILL kill you.
Post responsibly.

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Aegis Prime
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Postby Aegis Prime » Sat Aug 20, 2016 8:03 am

Godular wrote:
Stojam wrote:I believe that Abortion is not good, not because Morals, because the child suffers even more, he feels painfull Physical pain.


No it does not. It feel nothing until nearly six months into the pregnancy.

Research has shown it begins to feel pain and other sensations at around 11 weeks where its nervous system is forming

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