Abortion: Pro-Choice or Pro-Life?

[Mattopilos]

I talked to another guy, not you, please note it, the evidence is the UK telegraph site.

That "evidence" has nothing to do with your stance. If anything, it is simply stating that we can abort a child knowing it will have a birth defect, or not have a child at all. I also says at the end:

" “Tests like this may produce clinically useful information, but they may also be a cause of unnecessary worry and anxiety; or they may offer false reassurance in a pregnancy that has serious non-genetic abnormalities that will not be picked up by the test.

"We do not randomly test pregnancies for a long list of other conditions that may only manifest in adult life on the basis that individuals may not want to know that information when they are older.” "

So, again, point is moot on how abortions are bad - this issue they describe is separate from it.

[Ifreann]

I stopped reading here, because this is gibberish that demonstrates considerable ignorance on your part.

But then I noticed your signature, which is twice as long as the rules allow. You might want to do something about that.

How is it gibberish huh? How is it? I have evidence, you are the ignorant here now

You appear to not understand sexual reproduction.

and why do you even care about my signature? You have nothing better to do?

I don't especially care, and I don't actually have anything better to do at the moment. I'm just being helpful. If you don't edit your sig down to 8 lines or fewer then as mod will do it whenever they happen to notice or when someone reports you. You won't get banned or anything, but I thought you might prefer to design your sig yourself than have a mod come along and slap a spoiler on it.

[Stojam]

It seems like you ignorants have nothing better to do but to answer toxic comments just on me, I will leave you be, just so you can stop commenting every time on something I said earlier.

[Mattopilos]

It seems like you ignorants have nothing better to do but to answer toxic comments just on me, I will leave you be, just so you can stop commenting every time on something I said earlier.

Us, making toxic comments? Man, you must think everything you say is angelic and pure.

[Neutraligon]

It seems like you ignorants have nothing better to do but to answer toxic comments just on me, I will leave you be, just so you can stop commenting every time on something I said earlier.

Why should we not respond to you when we disagree with you? This is after all a discussion forum, so supposedly you are on here to discuss topics.

[Stojam]

No, from what I saw, you just tried to swarm and break me, that's all, denying everything I say, now I leave you be.

[Neutraligon]

No, from what I saw, you just tried to swarm and break me, that's all, denying everything I say, now I leave you be.

Most of us here on the forums have opinions that have at one time been controversial, and have dealt with many people responding at once. Instead of complaining about people responding to things you have placed out in the public on a discussion forum, you deal with it.You stand up and find a way to support your claims. And then you keep on finding ways to support your claims as people respond and criticize or support you. That is what being on a discussion forum is about. This place is not normally viscous, but it will tear apart your arguments should we find them wanting.

[Stojam]

I responded so many times, and everybody responded at once, denying everything I say, you think this is easy? Now I will leave you, and hope you will stop focusing just on me and argue with others.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

I disagree with abortion because it's a lie and "Her body, her choice" is a lie, the Fetus has a separate blood type and separate DNA because there is a policy that's saying to separate the unborn child from the mother's DNA to prevent diseases, and before you say this is irrelevant or what is the source, read this: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/ ... -womb.html
Just because the baby is inside of the Woman it doesn't mean it's a copy of her, think of it like in a car, you are in a car, but you aren't part of it, you just rely on aspects of the car to keep you alive.

Your argument is disingenuous.

Noone's talking about the fetus when they talk about "her body, her choice".

Your entire argument relies on faulty premises.

[Stojam]

Alright listen, I started an argument and I can start it whenever I goddamn want, I was expressing my opinion freely and I don't need you to say what needs to be on this topic.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Alright listen, I started an argument and I can start it whenever I goddamn want, I was expressing my opinion freely and I don't need you to say what needs to be on this topic.

I never said you could't start an argument whenever you want.

I am merely saying that your argument relies on a faulty premise: that the saying "her body, her choice" is talking about her owning the fetus.

That's not what "her body, her choice" means.

[Neutraligon]

I responded so many times, and everybody responded at once, denying everything I say, you think this is easy? Now I will leave you, and hope you will stop focusing just on me and argue with others.

Of coures you responded so many times, that is what a discussion forum is about, people making claims, arguing a certain point, responding and then doing it again and again and again. Each of us has had the experience you are having right now. Considering most of us share the same opinion on this topic, talking to others would end up in a rather boring circle jerk. You had a lot of people respond because you were one of the people who did not share the same or similar opinions. Instead of complaining about people responding to you when you place something into the realm of discussion, why not actually back up your claims.

Alright listen, I started an argument and I can start it whenever I goddamn want, I was expressing my opinion freely and I don't need you to say what needs to be on this topic.

Sure, you can stop whenever you want, but that does not mean we need to stop responding to you. Just as you are expressing your opinion freely (which by the way there is no such thing as free speech on this website) we are expressing ours freely in disagreement with you. And actually, moderation is who gets to decide if you are staying on topic. Threadjacking is against the rules.

So are you going to keep complaining or are you going to back up your claims?

[Stojam]

I know what it means in the definition of Abortion! like, clearly this topic is about Abortion.

And Gon, I try my best, but it's not the kind of my personality who can hold up huge stress, you can understand me right?

[Soldati Senza Confini]

I know what it means in the definition of Abortion! like, clearly this topic is about Abortion.

Then why use an argument that relies on the premise that "her body, her choice" is talking about the fetus?

That is what you are implying when you say that the fetus has a distinct DNA from the mother. You might not have wanted to use that argument, but you still did. I am pointing out to you that the premise of the argument is wrong.

[Stojam]

I wanted to say that the Mother is still he biological mother of the Fetus, but it's just a policy, to distinct DNA from the Mother's to prevent diseases.

[Neutraligon]

I know what it means in the definition of Abortion! like, clearly this topic is about Abortion.

And Gon, I try my best, but it's not the kind of my personality who can hold up huge stress, you can understand me right?

Then the best thing for you to do is to take things slowly. You do not need to respond to everyone all at the same time. You will also notice that the things we are saying to you tend to be rather similar to each other. Hell sometimes they probably all say the same thing in slightly different ways, so you only need to respond to one of us. It is entirely possible that general forum is not for you, because the general forum is about discussion, and will tear apart any argument they feel to be wrong.

[Stojam]

It's always like that in me, I start off strong then I go full retard because of some ignorant said something.

[Neutraligon]

I wanted to say that the Mother is still he biological mother of the Fetus, but it's just a policy, to distinct DNA from the Mother's to prevent diseases.

See this comment right here, I do not understand what you are trying to say; the grammar makes it very unclear. The underlined part does not grammatically make sense and also does not seem to follow well from the first part of the comment.

[Stojam]

Mate, English is not my first language, so sometimes I can misspell or write something that doesn't make sense, the policy is to distinct the Fetus DNA from the Mother's DNA to prevent diseases, here is what I wanted to say.

[Neutraligon]

Mate, English is not my first language, so sometimes I can misspell or write something that doesn't make sense, the policy is to distinct the Fetus DNA from the Mother's DNA to prevent diseases, here is what I wanted to say.

And again I am not understanding what you are trying to say. I figured English was not your first language. I think this is similar but please tell me if I am wrong.

The policy is to distinguish between the mother's DNA and the fetus's DNA in order to prevent diseases.

So here is a follow up question, what policy? You mean "her body her choice"? Her body her choice has little to do with diseases. So what policy is it you are talking about? The article you linked with that post has little to nothing to do with abortion so I am not sure of its relevance.

[Stojam]

A health policy in Hospitals, they are distincting the Fetus DNA from the Mother's DNA to prevent diseases.

[Neutraligon]

A health policy in Hospitals, they are distincting the Fetus DNA from the Mother's DNA to prevent diseases.

I am still unsure what this has to do with abortion. I think everyone here would agree that the DNA of a fetus is different from the DNA of the mother. Are you trying to use differences in DNA to say that it is not her body?

[Soldati Senza Confini]

A health policy in Hospitals, they are distincting the Fetus DNA from the Mother's DNA to prevent diseases.

Are you trying to say that hospitals are starting to distinguish the fetal DNA from the mother DNA to prevent congenital diseases a mother could give to her child?

[Aegis Prime]

My point of view is this basically: I am pro life, but I am not ignorant to facts.

making abortion illegal only pushes that activity to the underground (as anything else) BUT there should be stricter regulations on abortion. We live in a time where we have more options that ever before, from birth control to condoms etc.. With that in mind abortion should be the very last resort.

It should be legal to go ahead with the procedure if the mothers life is in danger (determined by the physician) if she was raped (with the corresponding court order) and also incest. For abortions due to elective reasons (economic, not ready, etc...) the mother should have to get the go ahead from a social worker (make it case by case basis) and make it so the earlier the pregnancy is the higher likelyhood that they could get the go ahead to perform an abortion. Also have a cut-off time where if healthy and not a unique circumstance an abortion cannot be legally performed.

Basically a system that awards responsibility. Also I must note that the government should have no responsibility to pay for the procedure, only to provide the aforementioned social services of advising and evaluating cases.

How about this. The above policy stays the same but now the government subsidizes and provides sexual education programs and birth control for the citizens. Making abortion a very last resort by providing preventive means.

Tell me your thoughts on this.

[Neutraligon]

My point of view is this basically: I am pro life, but I am not ignorant to facts.

making abortion illegal only pushes that activity to the underground (as anything else) BUT there should be stricter regulations on abortion. We live in a time where we have more options that ever before, from birth control to condoms etc.. With that in mind abortion should be the very last resort.

It should be legal to go ahead with the procedure if the mothers life is in danger (determined by the physician) if she was raped (with the corresponding court order) and also incest. For abortions due to elective reasons (economic, not ready, etc...) the mother should have to get the go ahead from a social worker (make it case by case basis) and make it so the earlier the pregnancy is the higher likelyhood that they could get the go ahead to perform an abortion. Also have a cut-off time where if healthy and not a unique circumstance an abortion cannot be legally performed.

Basically a system that awards responsibility. Also I must note that the government should have no responsibility to pay for the procedure, only to provide the aforementioned social services of advising and evaluating cases.

How about this. The above policy stays the same but now the government subsidizes and provides sexual education programs and birth control for the citizens. Making abortion a very last resort by providing preventive means.

Tell me your thoughts on this.

I think you would get almost everyone on the pro-choice side agreeing that the government needs to provide good sexual education and effective, cheap, and easy to obtain birth control to citizens. I do not however agree to the restrictions you provided, since I feel that a woman's choice to have an abortion should only be between herself, her doctor, and whoever else she wishes to include in the decision. There are simply not enough social workers to cover all the women who want an abortion, and the further along the abortion is pushed the more dangerous it becomes to the woman.