Abortion: Pro-Choice or Pro-Life?

[Ifreann]

My point of view is this basically: I am pro life, but I am not ignorant to facts.

making abortion illegal only pushes that activity to the underground (as anything else) BUT there should be stricter regulations on abortion. We live in a time where we have more options that ever before, from birth control to condoms etc.. With that in mind abortion should be the very last resort.

It should be legal to go ahead with the procedure if the mothers life is in danger (determined by the physician) if she was raped (with the corresponding court order) and also incest. For abortions due to elective reasons (economic, not ready, etc...) the mother should have to get the go ahead from a social worker (make it case by case basis) and make it so the earlier the pregnancy is the higher likelyhood that they could get the go ahead to perform an abortion. Also have a cut-off time where if healthy and not a unique circumstance an abortion cannot be legally performed.

Basically a system that awards responsibility. Also I must note that the government should have no responsibility to pay for the procedure, only to provide the aforementioned social services of advising and evaluating cases.

I have an alternative proposal. Women can choose whether to continue their pregnancies based on their own judgement and the advice of their physician, and of anyone else whose advice they care to listen to, and if you don't like their choice then tough shit.

[Godular]

Why should the woman be forced to provide evidence that she is in compliance with such arbitrary restrictions in order to undergo a medical procedure?

Because it is not just her we are talking about here it is another human life, it is a baby.

It is her body and it has an unwanted entity in it. The very simple rule that has never been defeated is that no person has the right to use another person's body against their will. This is true of born persons, so why should a fetus suddenly be permitted this right?

It is inconsistent to do such a thing.

the fetus harms that body by virtue of its existence.

Jesus christ man you make it sound like the baby is some sort of xenomorph parasite.

Because for all practical intents and purposes that is exactly the case.

[United Syria]

The problem with abortion.

Random YouTube guy who thinks people care what he thinks. So convinced.

If you would actually watch it that'd be great

And you're only reinforcing the fact that most pro-choicers absolutely hate people who actually provide them with facts.

[Neutraligon]

Random YouTube guy who thinks people care what he thinks. So convinced.

If you would actually watch it that'd be great

And you're only reinforcing the fact that most pro-choicers absolutely hate people who actually provide them with facts.

Then I am sure you can provide those facts without us having to click on a random youtubers video.

[United Syria]

The problem with abortion.

That YouTuber is a well-known bullshitter. Try making your own argument.

*citation needed*

[Soldati Senza Confini]

The problem with abortion.

The video starts right off making a disingenuous and intellectually dishonest argument about what it means "my body, my choice". When women say "my body my choice", they clearly do not mean they own the fetus. Women's bodies are theirs to do as they wish. Conflating this into "I own this fetus and so I can do whatever I want with it" is disingenuous, misleading, and intellectually dishonest.

That right there is all I needed to hear before not listening any further. If he's not going to engage in a fair discussion and try to reframe the arguments put forward by pro-choice advocates, then I don't need to listen, because their argument depends on a flawed understanding of pro-choice arguments.

[Wallenburg]

That YouTuber is a well-known bullshitter. Try making your own argument.

*citation needed*

The problem with abortion.

The video starts right off making a disingenuous argument about what it means "my body, my choice". When women say "my body my choice", they clearly do not mean they own the fetus. Women's bodies are theirs to do as they wish. Conflating this into "I own this fetus and so I can do whatever I want with it" is disingenuous, misleading, and intellectually dishonest.

That right there is all I needed to hear before not listening any further.

---

Random YouTube guy who thinks people care what he thinks. So convinced.

If you would actually watch it that'd be great

And you're only reinforcing the fact that most pro-choicers absolutely hate people who actually provide them with facts.

*citation needed*

[Kelinfort]

Random YouTube guy who thinks people care what he thinks. So convinced.

If you would actually watch it that'd be great

And you're only reinforcing the fact that most pro-choicers absolutely hate people who actually provide them with facts.

I watched it; I remain unconvinced.

[Godular]

Random YouTube guy who thinks people care what he thinks. So convinced.

If you would actually watch it that'd be great

And you're only reinforcing the fact that most pro-choicers absolutely hate people who actually provide them with facts.

That video has facts in the same way that you say a sweeping and misinformed generalization is a 'fact'.

How about you actually say something original rather than relying on youtube to do your thinking for you?

[Quokkastan]

Here's my stance:

I am not a fan of abortion, but banning it isn't the solution. Banning abortion doesn't stop abortion. It stops SAFE abortion.

Abortion in cases of rape, incest, financial matters, or pretty much any other reason should be permitted. However, abortion based on the sex of the baby and nothing else is utterly ridiculous and should be banned.

And how do you enforce that?

[Wallenburg]

Here's my stance:

I am not a fan of abortion, but banning it isn't the solution. Banning abortion doesn't stop abortion. It stops SAFE abortion.

Abortion in cases of rape, incest, financial matters, or pretty much any other reason should be permitted. However, abortion based on the sex of the baby and nothing else is utterly ridiculous and should be banned.

And how do you enforce that?

Exactly. I agree that sex-selective abortions are abhorrent and backwards, but there is absolutely no way to restrict them.

[Stojam]

I disagree with abortion because it's a lie and "Her body, her choice" is a lie, the Fetus has a separate blood type and separate DNA because there is a policy that's saying to separate the unborn child from the mother's DNA to prevent diseases, and before you say this is irrelevant or what is the source, read this: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/ ... -womb.html
Just because the baby is inside of the Woman it doesn't mean it's a copy of her, think of it like in a car, you are in a car, but you aren't part of it, you just rely on aspects of the car to keep you alive.

[Mattopilos]

I disagree with abortion because it's a lie and "Her body, her choice" is a lie, the Fetus has a separate blood type and separate DNA because there is a policy that's saying to separate the unborn child from the mother's DNA to prevent diseases, and before you say this is irrelevant or what is the source, read this: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/ ... -womb.html

Her body, her choice. That, and making either choice would be considered "without consent", so the choice falls on those that can make it. I prefer it be earlier than later, since the chance the birth would be successful increases the closer to the birth it becomes. One also has to consider the environment it would be born in - crappy environment? don't let the kid suffer life.

[Stojam]

The envoirment? When a kid is born to life he isn't questioned about the envoirment , and also people treat Fetuses like a blob of cells, no, it's a Human reproduction, and he feels real physical pain during an Abortion, why to make the kid suffer even more when he is on Abortion?, think about it for a second, but not just kills the baby, it painfully kills it! Abortion is difficult and painful for the unborn child. Surgeon Robert P. N. Shearin states that: [1]

As early as eight to ten weeks after conception, and definitely by thirteen-and-a-half weeks, the unborn experiences organic pain…. First, the unborn child's mouth, at eight weeks, then her hands at ten weeks, then her face, arms, and legs at eleven weeks become sensitive to touch. By thirteen-and-a-half weeks, she responds to pain at all levels of her nervous system in an integrated response which cannot be termed a mere reflex. She can now experience pain.

President Ronald Reagan stated in 1984 that during an abortion:

The fetus feels pain which is long and agonizing.

After President Ronald Reagan said this then it set off a furious reaction by pro-choice advocates. They did not want to believe this, nor did they want the public to believe it. But twenty-six medical authorities, including two past presidents of the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, stepped forward with a letter documenting that the unborn does in fact feel pain during an abortion.

Their letter says in part: [2]

Mr. President, in drawing attention to the capability of the human fetus to feel pain, you stand on firmly established ground…. That the unborn, the prematurely born, and the new-born of the human species is a highly complex, sentient, functioning, individual organism is established scientific fact…. Over the last eighteen years, real time ultrasonography, fetoscopy, study of the fetal EKG [electrocardiogram] and the fetal EEG [electroencephalogram] have demonstrated the remarkable responsiveness of the human fetus to pain, touch, and sound.

Pioneer fetologist Albert Iiley, of the University of Auckland, says that by the fifty-sixth day after conception, the baby's spinal reflexes are sufficiently developed to feel pain. He adds: [3]

When doctors first began invading the sanctuary of the womb, they did not know that the unborn baby would react to pain in the same fashion as a child would. But they soon learned he did.

Dr. Liley's observation is graphically demonstrated in Dr. Bernard Nathanson's classic film, The Silent Scream, the first widely circulated ultrasound of an actual abortion. [4] It shows a child serenely resting in her mother's womb. Suddenly the child is alarmed because of the intruding abortion device. She moves as far away as she can, trying desperately to save her life. Just before her body is torn to pieces and sucked out through the vacuum tube, her tiny mouth opens in an unheard scream of terror. After the abortion the doctor who performed it was invited to view the ultrasound. He was so upset with what he saw that he left the room. Though he had performed over ten thousand abortions, he never performed another one. [5] https://youtu.be/gON-8PP6zgQ (A video about a fetus screames)

[Mattopilos]

The envoirment? When a kid is born to life he isn't questioned about the envoirment , and also people treat Fetuses like a blob of cells, no, it's a Human reproduction, and he feels real physical pain during an Abortion, why to make the kid suffer even more when he is on Abortion?, think about it for a second.

I wasn't asking the (potential) child, but rather society - if the child is going to suffer a miserable existence, why put them through it?. Oh, and the Blastocyst is a mass of cells, so that is not entirely wrong to say. Actually, we are pretty much a blob of cells put on a metal salt skeleton (which also has cells). Pain? maybe briefly. Compared to a lifetime of pain, I would rather that. And, again, they can't give consent to life or death, so it isn't a choice ANYONE in particular can make - so it is up to the parents to decide life or death.

[Stojam]

Both the Parents and the child will suffer, painfully, miserable society is not a thing to get concered about , Life is great, if you cannot understand it is, you are probably ungrateful of what you have, and nobody chooses how they live, and the abortion will make life end before it even happened and it will end it painfully.

[Mattopilos]

Both the Parents and the child will suffer, painfully, miserable society is not a thing to get concered about , Life is great, if you cannot understand it is, you are probably ungrateful of what you have, and nobody chooses how they live, and the abortion will make life end before it even happened and it will end it painfully.

They are making the choice, so it up to them to feel good or bad about the decision. Again, placing them in a poor environment would make them just as sad. You are only isolating it to the birth and not what will be around it. Life is great, when you can have desires and greed - placing them in a crappy place is not allowing them to have either. Man ,repeating the same lines without any justification other than pointless morals and empty ideals.

[Stojam]

"Abortion is advocated only by persons who have themselves been born."
- Ronald Reagen

[Ardavia]

"Abortion is advocated only by persons who have themselves been born."
- Ronald Reagen

thank you, captain obvious, what an incredible insight and an excellent counterpoint to all the pro-choice arguments you have blessed us with /s

[Mattopilos]

"Abortion is advocated only by persons who have themselves been born."
- Ronald Reagen

A pseudo-profound quote. It is like "ooh, insightful!", then "Well, no shit sherlock". Using quotes your only defense for your outdated and restrictive morals?

[Stojam]

Listen mate, I only support Abortion in Rape cases , when a stranger does damage to the Woman or maybe extreme cases, that's why it only needs to be performed in those cases.

[Mattopilos]

Listen mate, I only support Abortion in Rape cases , when a stranger does damage to the Woman or maybe extreme cases, that's why it only needs to be performed in those cases.

Good for you, you are allowed to have an opinion, just as I can have an opinion that criticizes yours.

[Stojam]

Here is a video about abortion: https://youtu.be/xUtVyQ8-3xg

[Neutraligon]

Here is a video about abortion: https://youtu.be/xUtVyQ8-3xg

Why should I watch a random youtubers opinion on abortion. Seems to me you should be able to make your own case for you.

[Mattopilos]

Here is a video about abortion: https://youtu.be/xUtVyQ8-3xg

Yes, propaganda from youtube using the quote you already used. It means nothing to me or my previously held opinion. You are using emotive appeal and conservative "No, I MAKE THE CHOICE NOT YOU" authoritative ideals like that of religion. More reasons I am not religious anymore and don't see a need for their 'morals'.
Overall, this is a bunch of actors trying to pluck your heartstrings using strawman "I knew I was right in not aborting you!" bullcrap. Obviously their choce was made and it wasn't bad - they had a good living environment and a loving family. That isn't always the case.