Abortion: Pro-Choice or Pro-Life?

[Stagnant Axon Terminal]

Well, if there is a complication that threatens the mother's life, then that makes sense. And that's probably the primary reason for late-term abortions.

Again I will bring up this link - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_term ... _pregnancy

There's a section that gives the justifications for late termination. Complications don't seem to be the "primary reason" for late term abortions (or any abortions, for that matter).

Re-read that, as it includes third trimester pre-viability. It is not only about post-viability fetuses. And considering that if 1.5% of abortions happen between weeks 21-birth, and only 0.08% are past 24 weeks, that means that data is only applicable to the 1.42% that happen 21-23 weeks LMP and has nothing at all to do with the other 0.08%. In fact, only 9 states(last I checked) permit abortions past viability so it stands to reason that for the vast majority of women, once you reach 24 weeks, you're giving birth unless you have the funds to travel, which, if you'll look at your own source, at least half of women having abortions past 16 weeks LMP found it difficult or nearly impossible to find the funds necessary to have the abortion itself, let alone to travel to another state.

[Chessmistress]

Some times ago I posted something highlighting that the far right was taking power in Poland
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=358546&p=26445008&hilit=Poland#p26445008

Now it turns out that they're starting oppressing even more Polish women by try banning abortion - by supporting a petition calling for the ban on abortion

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/a ... aw-justice

The conservative legal group Ordo Iuris is well on the way to collecting the 100,000 petition signatures it needs. Members of the group will be on church steps again on Sunday, just as they were last week when dozens of Polish Catholics walked out of mass in protest at a bishops’ message stating that abortion is contrary to the “thou shalt not kill” commandment.

Outside parliament on Saturday coat hangers, brandished by protesters as symbols of the crude tools used for backstreet abortions, were interspersed with red-painted placards proclaiming “My womb, not the fatherland’s” but also broader messages, such as “Make love not PiS”.

“We have to show up the hypocrisy of the government. We must never allow them to say they are pro-women,” said Nowicka, a former MP and one of the instigators of Ratujmy Kobiety (“Let’s save women”) – a counter-petition calling for expanded abortion rights.

The new prime minister Beata Szydło, a woman with an huge problem of internalized misogyny, is endorsing the national anti-abortion petition.
I think that's a shame, really.
Polish women are reacting with a counter-petition, but it seems that the government is not just only betraying their election manifesto (that didn't talk about abortion) but also discriminating even against single mothers

The counter-petition calls for abortion on demand up to 12 weeks. “It is a tactical move,” said Nowacka. “We know we will not succeed but we hope to win the chance of a parliamentary confrontation between our bill and the one calling for a ban.”

Activists have, during the past week, flooded social media with a #TrudnyOkres (“Heavy Period”) campaign directed at Szydło and her government’s desire “to control our uteruses, ovaries, and pregnancies”. Comments include: “Dear Prime Minister Beata, I inform you that my menstrual cycle is going great. I got my period on time (my cycle lasts 31 days).” Another Facebook post reads: “Dear Mrs Prime Minister, my period is late. Maybe the time has come? I don’t have any income and I will be a single mother.”

Single parents with one child do not qualify for the government’s flagship 500 złotys-a-month (£88) child benefit – a key campaign promise that was paid out for the first time this month. Although Law and Justice tabled abortion-ban bills in opposition, the move was not in the party’s election manifesto. Government opponents point to a Kaczyński statement in 2007 when he said “a democratic, law-abiding state cannot force a raped woman to give birth to a child”.

Personally I think that the main minds behind the promotion of such barbaric and regressive petition are nothing less than misogynists, including the woman I don't want even name who have an huge problem of internalized misogyny and is in need of a good psychiatric. It must be the choice of every woman, and it should never be dictated by someone else’s religious beliefs.
This petition calling for a ban on abortion is disgusting to me, and I think that such medieval and toxic "opinions" are the proof that religions should have no part, never, in the managing of a state.

What do you think about what's happening in Poland?

I checked the petition calling for the ban on abortion: it has already reached 55,000 signatures, and that's very worrying, because they're actually supported by the government.

[New confederate ramenia]

Let Poland ban abortion if they want to.

[Galloism]

Let Poland ban abortion if they want to.

Or not, because polish women are human too and deserve human rights.

[The East Marches]

"huge problem of internalized misogyny and is in need of a good psychiatric"

This is the same shit SJW tried to tell me when I disagreed with them. "You have internalized white privilege and need psychological help". Clearly another woman or in my case, a brown person, is incapable of having an opinion that differs from your own without being mentally ill. You see disagreement as a form of treason and mental illness.

Do I disagree with the petition and her position? Yes of course I do. Do I believe they are mentally ill for having a differing opinion, no I don't.

[Luminesa]

Let Poland ban abortion if they want to.

Or not, because polish women are human too and deserve human rights.

And thus the 55,000 people who signed the petition have a human right to say they are against abortion.

[New confederate ramenia]

Let Poland ban abortion if they want to.

Or not, because polish women are human too and deserve human rights.

I never said they didn't.

"huge problem of internalized misogyny and is in need of a good psychiatric"

This is the same shit SJW tried to tell me when I disagreed with them. "You have internalized white privilege and need psychological help". Clearly another woman or in my case, a brown person, is incapable of having an opinion that differs from your own without being mentally ill. You see disagreement as a form of treason and mental illness.

Do I disagree with the petition and her position? Yes of course I do. Do I believe they are mentally ill for having a differing opinion, no I don't.

It's because "SJW" (I don't like that term) or New Leftists believe that what they are doing is absolutely right, their position is obviously true, and that everyone of a certain group that they're fighting for must agree with them.

[Trollgaard]

Let Poland ban abortion if they want to.

Or not, because polish women are human too and deserve human rights.

I do not believe abortion is a believed to be a human right by a majority of people.

[Czervenika]

I never understood why legislation regarding these things is even necessary. I mean if you're personally against abortion, then fine. Just don't have one. It's that simple really. Same could apply to many other things really.

[Imperial New Vegas]

I support it. There is nothing wrong with this.

[Luminesa]

Or not, because polish women are human too and deserve human rights.

I never said they didn't.

"huge problem of internalized misogyny and is in need of a good psychiatric"

This is the same shit SJW tried to tell me when I disagreed with them. "You have internalized white privilege and need psychological help". Clearly another woman or in my case, a brown person, is incapable of having an opinion that differs from your own without being mentally ill. You see disagreement as a form of treason and mental illness.

Do I disagree with the petition and her position? Yes of course I do. Do I believe they are mentally ill for having a differing opinion, no I don't.

It's because "SJW" (I don't like that term) or New Leftists believe that what they are doing is absolutely right, their position is obviously true, and that everyone of a certain group that they're fighting for must agree with them.

And they will not even try to talk. They will simply attack, attack, attack. Thus we have a stalemate, nothing gets done, and we have another brick in the wall.

[Galloism]

Or not, because polish women are human too and deserve human rights.

And thus the 55,000 people who signed the petition have a human right to say they are against abortion.

Sure they do, just as you have every right to swing your fist in the air wildly.

However, the moment you hit my nose we have a problem.

[Luminesa]

I support it. There is nothing wrong with this.

The ban or the protests against the ban?

[Galloism]

Or not, because polish women are human too and deserve human rights.

I do not believe abortion is a believed to be a human right by a majority of people.

Globally? Probably not.

In civilized countries? Probably so.

[Imperial New Vegas]

I support it. There is nothing wrong with this.

The ban or the protests against the ban?

The ban.

[Constantinopolis]

I do not believe abortion is a believed to be a human right by a majority of people.

Globally? Probably not.

In civilized countries? Probably so.

I heard that White Man's Burden can get quite heavy; be careful not to drop it.

[Trollgaard]

I do not believe abortion is a believed to be a human right by a majority of people.

Globally? Probably not.

In civilized countries? Probably so.

Civilized countries, nice.

I don't know. It seems like an even split for and against, at least in the US.

[Luminesa]

I do not believe abortion is a believed to be a human right by a majority of people.

Globally? Probably not.

In civilized countries? Probably so.

Poor countries see it as a crime, because they see their kids as their wealth.

[Luminesa]

The ban or the protests against the ban?

The ban.

Ah.

[Galloism]

Globally? Probably not.

In civilized countries? Probably so.

Civilized countries, nice.

I don't know. It seems like an even split for and against, at least in the US.

Wrong. 80% of Americans think abortion should be legal in some, most, or all circumstances.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/1576/abortion.aspx

[The Liberated Territories]

a woman with an huge problem of internalized misogyny

Wut? How can you internalize misogyny?

[Constantinopolis]

I never understood why legislation regarding these things is even necessary. I mean if you're personally against abortion, then fine. Just don't have one. It's that simple really. Same could apply to many other things really.

No it can't, actually, because abortion is an act that many people believe to be equivalent to murder.

And no one would ever say "I mean if you're personally against murder, that's fine, just don't kill anyone."

So we are at an impasse. You can't persuade us that abortion is not murder, and since we believe it to be murder, we want the state to take action against it.

[The balkens]

a woman with an huge problem of internalized misogyny

Wut? How can you internalize misogyny?

dunnno

[Luminesa]

Civilized countries, nice.

I don't know. It seems like an even split for and against, at least in the US.

Wrong. 80% of Americans think abortion should be legal in some, most, or all circumstances.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/1576/abortion.aspx

Only 19% say in all cases. So that means 81% of the country is against that notion.

Then the portion that says "in case of rape or health of the mother"-those abortions don't even count for most abortions.

But here we're talking about Poland, right? And Poland is not the U.S. What are the stats in Poland?

[Constantinopolis]

Civilized countries, nice.

I don't know. It seems like an even split for and against, at least in the US.

Wrong. 80% of Americans think abortion should be legal in some, most, or all circumstances.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/1576/abortion.aspx

Well if we include the word "some" in there, then sure, I also agree that abortion should be legal in some circumstances. I'm actually shocked that the percentage is as low as 80%. It's not very hard to think of some circumstances when abortion should definitely be allowed.