2017 Canadian Politics Megathread - Sesquicentennial Edition

[MERIZoC]

Yes, we understand that you can post a nifty little tool that someone else linked halfway up the page. "In progress" doesn't mean anything lol.

In progress, means exactly what it sounds, it's in the process of being completed.

Oneracon literally just posted a source saying it might not go ahead. Trudeaumeter or whatever the fuck it is is a neat tool, not a source on current updates.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

In progress, means exactly what it sounds, it's in the process of being completed.

Oneracon literally just posted a source saying it might not go ahead. Trudeaumeter or whatever the fuck it is is a neat tool, not a source on current updates.

Might It may or may not. See how it goes before getting angry.

[MERIZoC]

Oneracon literally just posted a source saying it might not go ahead. Trudeaumeter or whatever the fuck it is is a neat tool, not a source on current updates.

Might It may or may not. See how it goes before getting angry.

Again, there's nothing wrong with making predictions.

[Sanctissima]

In progress, means exactly what it sounds, it's in the process of being completed.

Oneracon literally just posted a source saying it might not go ahead. Trudeaumeter or whatever the fuck it is is a neat tool, not a source on current updates.

Technically it still is in progress, it's just that "in progress" can have as basic a meaning as it being discussed now and then in Parliament.

Regardless, I agree it ain't happening. Trudeau isn't exactly turning out to be all that great at following through with his promises.

[Liriena]

So... Trudeau seems nice. Has he done anything stupid lately?

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

Oneracon literally just posted a source saying it might not go ahead. Trudeaumeter or whatever the fuck it is is a neat tool, not a source on current updates.

Technically it still is in progress, it's just that "in progress" can have as basic a meaning as it being discussed now and then in Parliament.

Regardless, I agree it ain't happening. Trudeau isn't exactly turning out to be all that great at following through with his promises.

Except for:
Eliminate all fees associated with the Access to Information process except for the initial $5 filing fee,Restore mandatory long-form census,Include an equal number of women and men in the Cabinet,Provide $100 million by April 2016 to the UN High Commission of Refugees...

Shall I go on?

[MERIZoC]

So... Trudeau seems nice. Has he done anything stupid lately?

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/true-north/2016/nov/22/justin-trudeaus-giant-corporate-giveaway

[Liriena]

So... Trudeau seems nice. Has he done anything stupid lately?

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/true-north/2016/nov/22/justin-trudeaus-giant-corporate-giveaway

Goddammit, Justin.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/true-north/2016/nov/22/justin-trudeaus-giant-corporate-giveaway

Goddammit, Justin.

But it was to fix the infrastructure.

[MERIZoC]

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/true-north/2016/nov/22/justin-trudeaus-giant-corporate-giveaway

Goddammit, Justin.

Anyone who still thinks Trudeau is a leftist is kidding themselves at this point.

[Sanctissima]

Technically it still is in progress, it's just that "in progress" can have as basic a meaning as it being discussed now and then in Parliament.

Regardless, I agree it ain't happening. Trudeau isn't exactly turning out to be all that great at following through with his promises.

Except for:
Eliminate all fees associated with the Access to Information process except for the initial $5 filing fee,Restore mandatory long-form census,Include an equal number of women and men in the Cabinet,Provide $100 million by April 2016 to the UN High Commission of Refugees...

Shall I go on?

By all means, do so. There's about another 30 promises he's followed through with during his term as prime minister so far, and they're all chicken shit. I don't give a shit if there's a 50/50 divide of men and women in the Cabinet or if it's ethnically and culturally diverse, and I certainly don't give a damn about $100 million being forked over to the UN for feel-good nonsense about refugees. Making StatsCanada actually relevant again is nice, but at the end of the day what he should be focusing on is the economy, and not this side stuff.

He has a majority government, and he's squandering it. It's a been a year since he became PM, and so far the economy is still shit, the military is still grossly underfunded, the public education system is still horrible, and many other major issues remain unresolved. I couldn't give less of a rat's ass if my PM is making good impressions at meetings with foreign dignitaries or pandering to miscellaneous social rights activists, I want him to do his fucking job and get shit done. So far, his only endearing quality is that he isn't Harper, and that's not good enough to get him re-elected if the candidates fielded by the other parties come the next federal election aren't complete sociopaths.

[MERIZoC]

Goddammit, Justin.

But it was to fix the infrastructure.

Privatization isn't going to fix infrastructure. Good spending can fix infrastructure. Privatization fucks things up and makes things more expensive. Let's take a look:
https://www.policyalternatives.ca/sites/default/files/uploads/publications/Saskatchewan%20Office/2015/11/Privatization%20Nation%20%2811-05-15%29.pdf

The infamous Highway 407 toll road was initially planned as a public-private partnership, but only for as long as it took to pay off construction costs. Once the 407 was paid off, the tolls would end and it would revert to a public highway. That changed in 1998 when the Conservative government of Mike Harris—facing an upcoming election and several billion dollars in debt — chose to lease the 407 to the private sector for a 99-year lease worth $3.1 billion (at the time the largest selling price for a public asset in Canadian history). Despite the unprecedented sale price, it soon became evident that Ontario citizens had received a raw deal. Independent nancial analysts now estimate the 99-year lease should have been valued at over $12 billion—$9 billion more than the Ontario Conservatives sold it for.
Moreover, despite promises that tolls on the new private highway would be strictly controlled and restricted to no more than two per cent annual increases, tolls increased by a whopping 50 per cent in just the first three years of privatization. By 2014, tolls had tripled—from about 10 cents a kilometre in 1999 to more than 30 cents today.

Ontario Auditor General (AG) Bonnie Lysyk rebuked the Ontario government’s use of public-private partnerships for public infra- structure in a damning report that revealed P3s have cost the citizens of Ontario nearly $8 billion more over the past nine years than if the government had successfully built the projects itself. The AG found that while the province assumes there is less risk of cost overruns and other problems with P3s than with the public sector, the province actually has “no empirical data” to back up that assumption. P3s, meanwhile, are more expensive because companies “pay about 14 times what the government does for nancing, and receive a premium from taxpayers in exchange for taking on the project.”
Lysyk also found that the entire process of evaluating the cost effec- tiveness of P3s in comparison to the traditional public procurement approach was replete with errors. The AG noted billions of dollars’ worth of double counting and other inappropriate calculations
that demonstrated a clear bias in favour of P3s. According to CUPE Economist Toby Sanger, these P3 projects have created an estimated $28.5 billion in liabilities and commitments still outstanding to private corporations— a cost the citizens of Ontario will have to pay back in the future. Other P3 projects in Ontario would bring “total liabilities to over $30 billion owing to P3 consortiums and nanciers, the equivalent of $6,000 per household.”

The liberals want to foist costs off to the public without having to raise spending, in turn making it much more expensive for Canadians.

[Geilinor]

But it was to fix the infrastructure.

Privatization isn't going to fix infrastructure. Good spending can fix infrastructure. Privatization fucks things up and makes things more expensive. Let's take a look:
https://www.policyalternatives.ca/sites/default/files/uploads/publications/Saskatchewan%20Office/2015/11/Privatization%20Nation%20%2811-05-15%29.pdf

The infamous Highway 407 toll road was initially planned as a public-private partnership, but only for as long as it took to pay off construction costs. Once the 407 was paid off, the tolls would end and it would revert to a public highway. That changed in 1998 when the Conservative government of Mike Harris—facing an upcoming election and several billion dollars in debt — chose to lease the 407 to the private sector for a 99-year lease worth $3.1 billion (at the time the largest selling price for a public asset in Canadian history). Despite the unprecedented sale price, it soon became evident that Ontario citizens had received a raw deal. Independent nancial analysts now estimate the 99-year lease should have been valued at over $12 billion—$9 billion more than the Ontario Conservatives sold it for.
Moreover, despite promises that tolls on the new private highway would be strictly controlled and restricted to no more than two per cent annual increases, tolls increased by a whopping 50 per cent in just the first three years of privatization. By 2014, tolls had tripled—from about 10 cents a kilometre in 1999 to more than 30 cents today.

So it's only a problem if it's done at below market value. But he's not talking about privatizing existing infrastructure but building new toll roads. That's how Japan built its highway system.

[Camicon]

The committee isn't supposed to deliver it's final report to the House until December 1st. Try to hold on to your complaints until then.

God forbid anyone make predictions.

Predictions are fine. Bitching that something hasn't happened before it's scheduled to is stupid.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

Except for:
Eliminate all fees associated with the Access to Information process except for the initial $5 filing fee,Restore mandatory long-form census,Include an equal number of women and men in the Cabinet,Provide $100 million by April 2016 to the UN High Commission of Refugees...

Shall I go on?

By all means, do so. There's about another 30 promises he's followed through with during his term as prime minister so far, and they're all chicken shit. I don't give a shit if there's a 50/50 divide of men and women in the Cabinet or if it's ethnically and culturally diverse, and I certainly don't give a damn about $100 million being forked over to the UN for feel-good nonsense about refugees. Making StatsCanada actually relevant again is nice, but at the end of the day what he should be focusing on is the economy, and not this side stuff.

He has a majority government, and he's squandering it. It's a been a year since he became PM, and so far the economy is still shit, the military is still grossly underfunded, the public education system is still horrible, and many other major issues remain unresolved. I couldn't give less of a rat's ass if my PM is making good impressions at meetings with foreign dignitaries or pandering to miscellaneous social rights activists, I want him to do his fucking job and get shit done. So far, his only endearing quality is that he isn't Harper, and that's not good enough to get him re-elected if the candidates fielded by the other parties come the next federal election aren't complete sociopaths.

He just restored funding for Canada’s four heavy urban search and rescue teams and double funding to the Last Post Fund.

So, yeah, the military is getting funding.

For the economy, reduced the advertising budget of the government of Canada and the use of external consultants. So thats something cut from the budget.

[Oneracon]

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/true-north/2016/nov/22/justin-trudeaus-giant-corporate-giveaway

Goddammit, Justin.

Pretty much everyone says that these days

[Camicon]

Goddammit, Justin.

Anyone who still thinks Trudeau is a leftist is kidding themselves at this point.

Being a capitalist does not necessarily exclude being a "leftist".

[MERIZoC]

Privatization isn't going to fix infrastructure. Good spending can fix infrastructure. Privatization fucks things up and makes things more expensive. Let's take a look:
https://www.policyalternatives.ca/sites/default/files/uploads/publications/Saskatchewan%20Office/2015/11/Privatization%20Nation%20%2811-05-15%29.pdf

So it's only a problem if it's done at below market value. But he's not talking about privatizing existing infrastructure but building new toll roads. That's how Japan built its highway system.

It's not just about it being market value. It's about costs. New privatized roads are going to cost citizens a lot more, and, as the source points out, privatization results in loads of mismanagement. Public roads are better and cheaper.

[MERIZoC]

Anyone who still thinks Trudeau is a leftist is kidding themselves at this point.

Being a capitalist does not necessarily exclude being a "leftist".

I don't think anyone ever claimed he wasn't capitalist.

[Sanctissima]

By all means, do so. There's about another 30 promises he's followed through with during his term as prime minister so far, and they're all chicken shit. I don't give a shit if there's a 50/50 divide of men and women in the Cabinet or if it's ethnically and culturally diverse, and I certainly don't give a damn about $100 million being forked over to the UN for feel-good nonsense about refugees. Making StatsCanada actually relevant again is nice, but at the end of the day what he should be focusing on is the economy, and not this side stuff.

He has a majority government, and he's squandering it. It's a been a year since he became PM, and so far the economy is still shit, the military is still grossly underfunded, the public education system is still horrible, and many other major issues remain unresolved. I couldn't give less of a rat's ass if my PM is making good impressions at meetings with foreign dignitaries or pandering to miscellaneous social rights activists, I want him to do his fucking job and get shit done. So far, his only endearing quality is that he isn't Harper, and that's not good enough to get him re-elected if the candidates fielded by the other parties come the next federal election aren't complete sociopaths.

He just restored funding for Canada’s four heavy urban search and rescue teams and double funding to the Last Post Fund.

So, yeah, the military is getting funding.

For the economy, reduced the advertising budget of the government of Canada and the use of external consultants. So thats something cut from the budget.

That's nice and all, but I'm talking about actual major developments.

Having a functioning Search & Rescue system is by no means that same thing as having a navy that isn't one destroyer with a handful of frigates and Victoria-class submarines, let alone having a regular army that isn't severely underfunded and utterly incapable of defending the country in the event of an actual war. But hey, at least he isn't outright trying the hamstring the Canadian military like Harper.

In terms of the economy, come on now, that's chicken shit and you know it. Sure, reducing the advertising budget saves money, but it really doesn't amount to all that much in the grand scheme of things. I want to see an actual concerted effort to build infrastructure, make new jobs and get things rolling, not little side-efforts here and there while the PM focuses on social issues.

[Camicon]

Being a capitalist does not necessarily exclude being a "leftist".

I don't think anyone ever claimed he wasn't capitalist.

"Being a capitalist" (me, saying that Trudeau is a capitalist) "does not necessarily exclude being a leftist" (challenging your assertion that Trudeau is not a leftist, made in response to an article about the Liberals privatizing some infrastructure projects, the implication being that is a reason why he is not a leftist)

Follow?

[MERIZoC]

I don't think anyone ever claimed he wasn't capitalist.

"Being a capitalist" (me, saying that Trudeau is a capitalist) "does not necessarily exclude being a leftist" (challenging your assertion that Trudeau is not a leftist, made in response to an article about the Liberals privatizing some infrastructure projects, the implication being that is a reason why he is not a leftist)

Follow?

I follow. Your statement of "Being a capitalist does not necessarily exclude being a "leftist"." does not have anything to do with my assertion that Trudeau is not leftist. There are leftist capitalists. He is not one of them.

Capisce?

[Camicon]

"Being a capitalist" (me, saying that Trudeau is a capitalist) "does not necessarily exclude being a leftist" (challenging your assertion that Trudeau is not a leftist, made in response to an article about the Liberals privatizing some infrastructure projects, the implication being that is a reason why he is not a leftist)

Follow?

I follow. Your statement of "Being a capitalist does not necessarily exclude being a "leftist"." does not have anything to do with my assertion that Trudeau is not leftist. There are leftist capitalists. He is not one of them.

Capisce?

You said "Anyone who still thinks Trudeau is a leftist is kidding themselves at this point" in response to an article that shows him privatizing some infrastructure. The clear implication, because this is how the English language works, is that this capitalist action should make it clear to people that Trudeau is not a leftist.

Either you made a logically unsound conclusion by implying that doing something capitalist makes it clear that Trudeau is not a leftist, or you butchered your syntax. I assumed the former because I don't regularly see you do the latter.

[MERIZoC]

I follow. Your statement of "Being a capitalist does not necessarily exclude being a "leftist"." does not have anything to do with my assertion that Trudeau is not leftist. There are leftist capitalists. He is not one of them.

Capisce?

You said "Anyone who still thinks Trudeau is a leftist is kidding themselves at this point" in response to an article that shows him privatizing some infrastructure. The clear implication, because this is how the English language works, is that this capitalist action should make it clear to people that Trudeau is not a leftist.

Either you made a logically unsound conclusion by implying that doing something capitalist makes it clear that Trudeau is not a leftist, or you butchered your syntax. I assumed the former because I don't regularly see you do the latter.

I'm saying doing something neoliberal makes him a rightist, or at the very least a centrist, i.e. promoting market solutions over public ones.

[Camicon]

You said "Anyone who still thinks Trudeau is a leftist is kidding themselves at this point" in response to an article that shows him privatizing some infrastructure. The clear implication, because this is how the English language works, is that this capitalist action should make it clear to people that Trudeau is not a leftist.

Either you made a logically unsound conclusion by implying that doing something capitalist makes it clear that Trudeau is not a leftist, or you butchered your syntax. I assumed the former because I don't regularly see you do the latter.

I'm saying doing something neoliberal makes him a rightist, or at the very least a centrist, i.e. promoting market solutions over public ones.

You are aware that neoliberals are socially left-wing capitalists, right?