First female 11X has been accepted

[Imperial City-States]

It does have to do with gender.

The amount of training (physical) that a female has to do and the amount of training a male has to do to achieve the same level of physical fitness is immensely skewed.

It is far easier for a male to obtain certain levels, and maintain them, than a female. Training can help sure. But it will by no means alleviate the differences born out of how we are built.

The issue I have is that woman have a lesser standard that they adhere too. Regardless of if they're a medic, pencil pusher or mechanic. I posted the AFPT standards for males and females earlier in the thread. There is a very significant difference between the two.

You want men and women to serve side by side in Combat Arms?
Keep the same standard and don't degrade it just to meet your political goals.

[Wallenburg]

Ones masculinity, or if they're compensating for something. Is entirely illrelevent to if a female can preform the task at hand.
People such as yourself don't seem to understand the concept that females, generally, in this profession, will be significantly weaker than men.

[citation needed]

If i am bleeding out on the ground in full gear, and a female soldier is unable to move me to a position where I can get proper care I die.

If I am bleeding out on the ground in full gear, and a male soldier is unable to move me to a position where I can get proper care, I die.

It's not about if people are sexist or not (not denying that some sexism does exsist ) it's about surviving.

Having women in the military will not cause all our soldiers to die. Not even close.

I have no desire to have my Children grow up without a father because some politician wanted to put 'fairness' over effectiveness.

If women are so deadly, apparently, why don't we send them over to our enemies' armies? Apparently their very existence as soldiers causes male soldiers to die.

If she's a complete beast and as proven she is capable of adhering to the male standard.

I hope you then think that the only men who should be in the military are "complete beasts" as well.

War isn't about being 'fair' or 'equal', it's about how effective you can be at killing the enemy. Boo-fucking-hoo if someone's feelings get hurt. I have no desire to die because of someone's feelings, and I am by no means sexist.

I don't think you have any idea what kind of women will try to join the military. I'll give you a hint: it isn't this kind.

[Imperial City-States]

I need to provide a citation for something that is proven by science. what?


You're misunderstanding what I'm saying. This is all in reference to females in Combat Arms. Not military as a whole.


You should go to a military installation during PT hours. You might be extremely disappointed at what you find.

[Allanea]

If i am bleeding out on the ground in full gear, and a female soldier is unable to move me to a position where I can get proper care I die. [/quote[

Except that is completely untrue.]

There is an extensive military history of using military medics to carry wounded soldiers. Not "handfuls" or even "thousands". Hundreds of thousands of women medics fought in WW2, saving literally countless soldiers' lives.

And of course the situation where you're wounded and the only way for you to be rescued is for a single soldier to bodily carry you on their backs is rather unusual. (Why do you think the IDF trains soldiers to carry their injured comrades on stretchers?)

.

War isn't about being 'fair' or 'equal', it's about how effective you can be at killing the enemy. Boo-fucking-hoo if someone's feelings get hurt. I have no desire to die because of someone's feelings, and I am by no means sexist.

This has nothing to do with what people criticized. It's totally unrelated

What's sexist is the idea that a woman, to be respected, needs to be 'best at everything' - i.e. to perform above and beyond males.

[Allanea]

You should go to a military installation during PT hours. You might be extremely disappointed at what you find.

I served in the armed forces.

Our PT instructors were women.

Our drill instructors were women.

When we ran about in full gear these women ran in front of the formation.

When we did PT these women did PT with us.

[Immoren]

Ammunition, water, batteries (Radio).

Three most important items imo.

"Water, ammo, socks. Then any fucking luxury"-

[Wallenburg]

I need to provide a citation for something that is proven by science. what?

Apparently I need to explain that the average woman is not the average woman soldier.

You're misunderstanding what I'm saying. This is all in reference to females in Combat Arms. Not military as a whole.

You yourself have referenced that the standards are the same regardless. So don't pull that shit.

You should go to a military installation during PT hours. You might be extremely disappointed at what you find.

And why is that?

[Allanea]

What a completely unbiased site too.

[Wallenburg]

What a completely unbiased site too.

What do you mean? I'm pretty sure the Army is an authority on what the Army is doing.

[Allanea]

The SteadyHealth site is rather biased. It's not a scientific source by any means.

[Eastern Equestria]

Women should be able to apply for combat roles if so they wish, but these positions will remain primarily occupied by males. Sexual dimorphism is still a thing, folks.

[Immoren]

Women should be able to apply for combat roles if so they wish, but these positions will remain primarily occupied by males. Sexual dimorphism is still a thing, folks.

Clearly we should SCIENCE! to reduce sexual dimorphism in human species. *nods*

[Allanea]

Cultural dimorphism is more of an issue here.

[Immoren]

Cultural dimorphism is more of an issue here.

Reduce that too.

[Imperial City-States]

On my mobile so quotes don't work as they should so apologies ahead of time.



While the written standard is the same yes. The expected standard is much higher, regardless of if you're male of female.

@Allanea:

I'm presuming you were in the Air Force or Navy?
Additionally were you in a combat arms mos?
Not sure how it's done elsewhere but where I'm at we put the people who're likely to fall out, in front so they can set the pace.


How many of those Female medics operated in a 'Line' role? (Legitimately curious )

In the American Army, the medic carries a stretcher and he more often than not is staying near the Platoons command element. Meaning that in an emergency the opportunity for a stretcher is very thin. And that's not even going into the cluster fuck that vehicle casualties are.

[Imperial City-States]

The SteadyHealth site is rather biased. It's not a scientific source by any means.

Additional sauce.


sauce for the sauce god.

[Allanea]

I was in the Israel Defense Force ground forces. Not a combat MOS. Earlier in this thread I posted about this in detail.

40% of the Soviet Union's field medics in WW2 were women

Here's how it worked:

Picture 1
Picture 2
Picture 3.


Female snipers in WW2 set records that no US male sniper has beat yet.

[Uxupox]

In the military, and especially the Combat Arms side of the house. Respect is not given (beyond rank) it's earned. For a woman to be respected she needs to earn it, and by that i mean she has to be on top of literally everything and be the best at everything, that is the only way she will gain respect.

Remember how I said that the military is evidently full of sexist fraggers?
You just gave me more ammunition.
Why does she have to be the best? Why can't she just be as good as everyone else, the answer is because sexist fraggers feel threatened.
Evidently they have very fragile masculinity, or maybe they're trying to compensate for something.

Jesus fucking Christ. To be respected in the combat arms you literally have to embody the best of the best, not average level. Average level is already beyond normal standards when compared to a NON-combat arms branch. "Good as everybody else" is pretty getting on average a minimum of 270+ on a PT score, being able to do a 15 mile ruck march in under 3 hours with 45 lbs of gear at the minimum with possible additionional equipment to the standard if your PSG, PL or 1SG decides you get to be the equipment bitch of the day. And this is just nominal standards, now in combat in downrange its a whole new ball game.

I was in the Israel Defense Force ground forces. Not a combat MOS. Earlier in this thread I posted about this in detail.

40% of the Soviet Union's field medics in WW2 were women

Here's how it worked:

Picture 1
Picture 2
Picture 3.


Female snipers in WW2 set records that no US male sniper has beat yet.

68W is not an exclusively male MOS.

[Allanea]

Remember how I said that the military is evidently full of sexist fraggers?
You just gave me more ammunition.
Why does she have to be the best? Why can't she just be as good as everyone else, the answer is because sexist fraggers feel threatened.
Evidently they have very fragile masculinity, or maybe they're trying to compensate for something.

Jesus fucking Christ. To be respected in the combat arms you literally have to embody the best of the best, not average level. Average level is already beyond normal standards when compared to a NON-combat arms branch. "Good as everybody else" is pretty getting on average a minimum of 270+ on a PT score, being able to do a 15 mile ruck march in under 3 hours with 45 lbs of gear at the minimum with possible additionional equipment to the standard if your PSG, PL or 1SG decides you get to be the equipment bitch of the day. And this is just nominal standards, now in combat in downrange its a whole new ball game.

So you don't respect your fellow soldiers?

[Uxupox]

Jesus fucking Christ. To be respected in the combat arms you literally have to embody the best of the best, not average level. Average level is already beyond normal standards when compared to a NON-combat arms branch. "Good as everybody else" is pretty getting on average a minimum of 270+ on a PT score, being able to do a 15 mile ruck march in under 3 hours with 45 lbs of gear at the minimum with possible additionional equipment to the standard if your PSG, PL or 1SG decides you get to be the equipment bitch of the day. And this is just nominal standards, now in combat in downrange its a whole new ball game.

So you don't respect your fellow soldiers?

Respect the rank even if you don't like the guy but other than that if he is a piece of shit, well things may happen.

[Eastern Equestria]

Women should be able to apply for combat roles if so they wish, but these positions will remain primarily occupied by males. Sexual dimorphism is still a thing, folks.

Clearly we should SCIENCE! to reduce sexual dimorphism in human species. *nods*

Soooooo, eugenics?

[Wallenburg]

The SteadyHealth site is rather biased. It's not a scientific source by any means.

Additional sauce.


sauce for the sauce god.

I need to provide a citation for something that is proven by science. what?

Apparently I need to explain that the average woman is not the average woman soldier.

[Allanea]

The SteadyHealth site is rather biased. It's not a scientific source by any means.

Additional sauce.


sauce for the sauce god.

There's no doubt that women are somewhat weaker than men in certain measurements (the exact difference is stated differently in different forces).

The question is "are there some women who are strong enough to fulfil the objective requirements of combat" (as opposed to the requirements of a military recruitment standard)?

It is not relevant whether women are stronger than men, because combat is not a hand-to-hand wrestling match.
Nor does it matter whether women are "on average" stronger than the average male, because the "average woman" or the "average male" are not being recruited (as they don't physically exist). John T. Public and Jane Q. Public are being recruited.

[Wallenburg]

So you don't respect your fellow soldiers?

Respect the rank even if you don't like the guy but other than that if he is a piece of shit, well things may happen.

It sounds like you are insinuating that you don't respect the law, either.

[Eastern Equestria]

What's sexist is the idea that a woman, to be respected, needs to be 'best at everything' - i.e. to perform above and beyond males.

Females have to perform above and beyond to meet the same physical requirements as males (in general, of course there are some who can meet them).