First female 11X has been accepted

[Avrellon]

I'm saying that as time goes on, and gender equality is more widely accepted, the military will have more women applicants capable of performing on the same level as their men counterparts. In which case, we might as well get on the ball now and have women able to fill all military roles.

The military has already shown that mixed-gender units almost always perform worse than all-male units. Why would we risk the efficiency of our military for the sake of "gender equality"?

The validity of the report in question, if memory serves me right, has been seriously called into question by many critics. Partially because the military only released four pages of it.

[The Sotoan Union]

You mean it hasn't been like this since the 90's?

[The balkens]

Oh please. You want me to expect the vast majority of women who have the "potential" to enroll in the army won't be subjected to lowered normalized standards? Please. One goddamn round from the 120 MM mortar system is 35lbs. You will get fucked with that 35 lbs when your platoon sergeant decides to be a dick and holds your position for a minute or two.

I'm saying that as time goes on, and gender equality is more widely accepted, the military will have more women applicants capable of performing on the same level as their men counterparts. In which case, we might as well get on the ball now and have women able to fill all military roles.

what if they, try as they will, can't?

[Uxupox]

Please read what I said about this a few pages back.

Linky?

Its the one with the economic viability thing a few pages back.

[Uxupox]

I'm saying that as time goes on, and gender equality is more widely accepted, the military will have more women applicants capable of performing on the same level as their men counterparts. In which case, we might as well get on the ball now and have women able to fill all military roles.

what if they, try as they will, can't?

Doesn't matter if only 4 pass out of 168 right?

[Pope Joan]

We demean women by romanticizing them. Let a woman just be a person, and compete on a fair basis with other persons.

My friend's daughter, a college graduate,could have gone to officer candidate school with the Marines. Instead she chose to go through basic training, anything any other Marine recruit would have to endure, just to prove to everyone that there were no special exceptions in her case.

She passed through every stage with flying colors, although her mother nearly perished from anxiety during live fire obstacle courses.

She will pilot a combat helicopter in the Mideast.

[Avrellon]

Also, I should note that the study in question has been criticized as 'biased' by the Navy and at least one high-ranking member of the Army.

[Jamzmania]

The military has already shown that mixed-gender units almost always perform worse than all-male units. Why would we risk the efficiency of our military for the sake of "gender equality"?

The validity of the report in question, if memory serves me right, has been seriously called into question by many critics. Partially because the military only released four pages of it.

Even if, it merely serves to back up logic.

It is logical that units made entirely of men, who are physically superior, would perform better than units mixed with men and women, who are physically inferior and whom men naturally wish to protect.

[Warped Woods]

The validity of the report in question, if memory serves me right, has been seriously called into question by many critics. Partially because the military only released four pages of it.

Even if, it merely serves to back up logic.

It is logical that units made entirely of men, who are physically superior, would perform better than units mixed with men and women, who are physically inferior and whom men naturally wish to protect.

Nah, all they have is a penis. You can be physically fit and perform better through training.

[Uxupox]

Also, I should note that the study in question has been criticized as 'biased' by the Navy and at least one high-ranking member of the Army.

If it was criticized by the Navy Seals then I would have called it into question but the Navy top brass can simply piss off. A these days with the scandals going on with a lot of higher ups in chain of command, I'm not trusting anything from TRADOC.

[Wanderjar]

Truthfully, you rarely have to carry that much. The only time I remember that was like Honor Hill and some FTXs. Usually in OSUT though its like 45lbs so its not that bad. If you can ruck a four miles carrying 45lbs in one hour, you're fine to be an 11B, more or less.

I think that would be a struggle for me, but hey, I'm not one of the women they recruited.

A lot of people do struggle with it initially, especially if they're not ready for it when they start. I spent a year working out FIERCELY to be prepared, which is why I performed well. There were guys who had been stud athlete's in highschool who were fine, and just kids who wanted to enlist who couldn't do ten pushups, that's why at OSUT they're categorized.

What a lot of people don't know is that men don't always perform that well at OSUT either, again that's why you have three fitness categories, red, white, and blue. The bottom have to perform at the minimum standard before the end of the BCT phase of OSUT or they're bounced. So a woman could conceivably join, not even able to do more than five pushups, but if she can get it to the minimum standard of what, 55 or something? then that's fine. Before people jump on the 'she shouldn't just be at the minimum!' train, I'd like to remind those types that most infantryman are around there. Sorry, not that many people are in the 275+ club on their APFT because they don't work at it. *shrug*

Maybe she'll be a star and kill it, maybe she'll be average and just barely make the grade, maybe she'll fail. Time will tell. I don't have a problem with her having the opportunity, especially if she can hold her own at minimum.

EDIT: I joined the Marine Corps, but the principle is the same. Other than a lot of theatrics and a somewhat higher physical fitness standard requirement, they're not exponentially different. Also, yes I recognize that the Marines don't allow enlistment without the IST, which the army doesn't do, so you do tend to have a higher quality (physically) recruit at least initially, but generally speaking everyone who actually tries improves over the course of basic training, be it OSUT in the army or MCRT

[The Sotoan Union]

The validity of the report in question, if memory serves me right, has been seriously called into question by many critics. Partially because the military only released four pages of it.

Even if, it merely serves to back up logic.

It is logical that units made entirely of men, who are physically superior, would perform better than units mixed with men and women, who are physically inferior and whom men naturally wish to protect.

That last part is definitely a recorded problem noted in militaries with mixed combat units, but you could solve it by just teaching the soldiers to avoid this behavior.

[Ranko Kanzaki]

If you can pass the requirements you should be able to serve. If you don't you shouldn't.

Simple as that in my opinion.

[Jamzmania]

Even if, it merely serves to back up logic.

It is logical that units made entirely of men, who are physically superior, would perform better than units mixed with men and women, who are physically inferior and whom men naturally wish to protect.

Nah, all they have is a penis. You can be physically fit and perform better through training.

Are you disputing that men are physically superior to women?

[Napkiraly]

The military has already shown that mixed-gender units almost always perform worse than all-male units. Why would we risk the efficiency of our military for the sake of "gender equality"?

I don't believe you.

A similar study in Israel had a similar result iirc. Though the Israelis have decided to keep the Caracal Battalion.

Also, iirc, one of the major reasons given for the drop in combat efficiency was the psychological effect of women in harm's way among the male soldiers.

Which is why I have brought up the idea of gender segregated combat units.

[Jamzmania]

Even if, it merely serves to back up logic.

It is logical that units made entirely of men, who are physically superior, would perform better than units mixed with men and women, who are physically inferior and whom men naturally wish to protect.

That last part is definitely a recorded problem noted in militaries with mixed combat units, but you could solve it by just teaching the soldiers to avoid this behavior.

It is not so simple to reverse thousands of years of human behavior.

[Uxupox]

Even if, it merely serves to back up logic.

It is logical that units made entirely of men, who are physically superior, would perform better than units mixed with men and women, who are physically inferior and whom men naturally wish to protect.

Nah, all they have is a penis. You can be physically fit and perform better through training.

Are you sure? 14 weeks made a guy's astounding 14 push ups to an amazing 18 push ups on the APFT. So I guess he did become better.

[The balkens]

what if they, try as they will, can't?

Doesn't matter if only 4 pass out of 168 right?

Then they can't serve in the infantry.

if a woman passes with high marks, sure.

[Napkiraly]

If the Ranger School thing is anything to go on some people will just never be satisfied.

Oh please. She recycled like 10 times to pass ranger school. 2 or 3 times would have been acceptable as everybody fails once or twice a phase but 10 times? Simply unacceptable. Shouldn't be like the OCP where you can fail and retake the test forever.

I think it was the special prep programme that they had unlimited chances. The actual course itself they were held to the max recycle limit if memory serves me correct. Which is why only two graduated out of nineteen.

[Uxupox]

I don't believe you.

A similar study in Israel had a similar result iirc. Though the Israelis have decided to keep the Caracal Battalion.

Also, iirc, one of the major reasons given for the drop in combat efficiency was the psychological effect of women in harm's way among the male soldiers.

Which is why I have brought up the idea of gender segregated combat units.

I'm not against it for the Israelis just for the virtue that they need the manpower to meet their demands.

[Jamzmania]

I don't believe you.

A similar study in Israel had a similar result iirc. Though the Israelis have decided to keep the Caracal Battalion.

Also, iirc, one of the major reasons given for the drop in combat efficiency was the psychological effect of women in harm's way among the male soldiers.

Which is why I have brought up the idea of gender segregated combat units.

If you had gender segregated combat units, I would bet that the men would still almost always outperform the women.

And they would still encounter each other on the battlefield, which is where it counts, so that doesn't fully solve the problem.

[Warped Woods]

Nah, all they have is a penis. You can be physically fit and perform better through training.

Are you disputing that men are physically superior to women?

Nah, I'm only saying that you are horribly bad at human biology and fitness and that you should feel bad for it.

Honestly, what the fuck did you think I was saying?

[The Burke Islands]

Am I the only one who saw that the Army would allow females to enlist for combat on April 1st and thought that would be the greatest April fools joke of all time?

[The Sotoan Union]

That last part is definitely a recorded problem noted in militaries with mixed combat units, but you could solve it by just teaching the soldiers to avoid this behavior.

It is not so simple to reverse thousands of years of human behavior.

I mean most humans instinctively run away from fighting and violence. Having soldiers at all is reversing human behavior.

The military just needs to hammer out the actual problems with mixed gender combat units and address them directly. The problem is that the military institutes reforms at a snails pace.

[Uxupox]

Oh please. She recycled like 10 times to pass ranger school. 2 or 3 times would have been acceptable as everybody fails once or twice a phase but 10 times? Simply unacceptable. Shouldn't be like the OCP where you can fail and retake the test forever.

I think it was the special prep programme that they had unlimited chances. The actual course itself they were held to the max recycle limit if memory serves me correct. Which is why only two graduated out of nineteen.

Well yes before you get sent to ranger school you have to pass ranger assessment.