First female 11X has been accepted

[Wallenburg]

I agree, those different standards are not acceptable.

I'm curious though, if the Army is only just beginning to accept women in combat roles, where are these data coming from?

This is the standard to be in the Army. Not strictly combat roles as no such test formally exists.

Ah.

So desk clerks and shit have to pass this too?

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Are the 19 pushups and 53 situps also marked in two minute intervals?

Correct, my apologies, forgot to annotate.

No problem.

Now, the only thing that concerns me is the 19 pushups. I'd say that if a woman wants to be in the military at least 40 should be a competent assessment.

[Imperial City-States]

This is the standard to be in the Army. Not strictly combat roles as no such test formally exists.

Ah.

So desk clerks and shit have to pass this too?

Correct. IF you're in a 'combat role' the unofficial standard score for males is 270. The numbers is showed you earlier are for a min passing of 180.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Good for her.

Can't have a child without a daddy either. They'll just turn gay from the mother's effeminacy.

No, a woman's place is in the home to nurture and raise the children. A man's place is at work or at war. Back when that was how the world was, there was no gay or transgender people.

Yeah my brain started melting at the sheer stupidity of this post, going to save myself the trouble in the future and throw you on ignore.

[Imperial City-States]

You can not seriously tell me that a male passing the bare minimum standard and a female passing her bare minimum standard are going to be anywhere near par in terms of physical capability.

Never claimed they would be but is she a detriment if she passed the female standard and not the male standard?

Could be that the male standard is just higher than it realistically could be for them to be suitable soldiers. We'd need to know some performance records from women that have actually passed this standard, especially those that barely passed it, before we can say "this standard is shit".

For all we know they can be suitable soldiers and the male standard has just been set too high.

That is the standard for females to be in the Army. women do pass that, regularly. Those who barely pass it don't deserve to be in the military.

The Male standard isn't 'too high' it's where it should be, the goal is to be in peak physical shape. Not 'meh' physical shape.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

You can not seriously tell me that a male passing the bare minimum standard and a female passing her bare minimum standard are going to be anywhere near par in terms of physical capability.

Never claimed they would be but is she a detriment if she passed the female standard and not the male standard?

Could be that the male standard is just higher than it realistically could be for them to be suitable soldiers. We'd need to know some performance records from women that have actually passed this standard, especially those that barely passed it, before we can say "this standard is shit".

For all we know they can be suitable soldiers and the male standard has just been set too high.

I don't think 43 push ups in two minutes is unrealistic for the military.

It is, in fact, perfectly realistic to achieve that with proper training.

[Imperial City-States]

Never claimed they would be but is she a detriment if she passed the female standard and not the male standard?

Could be that the male standard is just higher than it realistically could be for them to be suitable soldiers. We'd need to know some performance records from women that have actually passed this standard, especially those that barely passed it, before we can say "this standard is shit".

For all we know they can be suitable soldiers and the male standard has just been set too high.

I don't think 43 push ups in two minutes is unrealistic for the military.

It is, in fact, perfectly realistic to achieve that with proper training.

Everyone i know (male) gets over 60 in two minutes.

Side note: I'm attached to an Infantry Company which is good explanation for that.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Never claimed they would be but is she a detriment if she passed the female standard and not the male standard?

Could be that the male standard is just higher than it realistically could be for them to be suitable soldiers. We'd need to know some performance records from women that have actually passed this standard, especially those that barely passed it, before we can say "this standard is shit".

For all we know they can be suitable soldiers and the male standard has just been set too high.

That is the standard for females to be in the Army. women do pass that, regularly. Those who barely pass it don't deserve to be in the military.

The Male standard isn't 'too high' it's where it should be, the goal is to be in peak physical shape. Not 'meh' physical shape.

Depends on what you call "peak" though.

I don't think those standards are anywhere near top performance for a man, but it is by no means mediocre.

[Esternial]

Never claimed they would be but is she a detriment if she passed the female standard and not the male standard?

Could be that the male standard is just higher than it realistically could be for them to be suitable soldiers. We'd need to know some performance records from women that have actually passed this standard, especially those that barely passed it, before we can say "this standard is shit".

For all we know they can be suitable soldiers and the male standard has just been set too high.

I don't think 43 push ups in two minutes is unrealistic for the military.

It is, in fact, perfectly realistic to achieve that with proper training.

Sure, but to know whether the female standard is too low we'd actually need to know how these women perform and not just base our judgement solely (though I'll agree it's relevant) on whether they pass the female/male standards.

[Imperial City-States]

That is the standard for females to be in the Army. women do pass that, regularly. Those who barely pass it don't deserve to be in the military.

The Male standard isn't 'too high' it's where it should be, the goal is to be in peak physical shape. Not 'meh' physical shape.

Depends on what you call "peak" though.

I don't think those standards are anywhere near top performance for a man, but it is by no means mediocre.

I agree please don't get me wrong, But barring being professional body builders/Olympic athletes it's still fairly good.

[Imperial City-States]

I don't think 43 push ups in two minutes is unrealistic for the military.

It is, in fact, perfectly realistic to achieve that with proper training.

Sure, but to know whether the female standard is too low we'd actually need to know how these women perform and not just base our judgement solely (though I'll agree it's relevant) on whether they pass the female/male standards.

You want equality, remove the female 'standard'. Both sexes have the same standard. Performance in a Combat Arms role is extremely dependent on how physically fit someone is. If you're on the verge of passing out after running 100m in full kit and can't accurately fire your weapon then you have no use being in a combat element.


When in Rome, do as the Romans.

[Wallenburg]

Correct, my apologies, forgot to annotate.

No problem.

Now, the only thing that concerns me is the 19 pushups. I'd say that if a woman wants to be in the military at least 40 should be a competent assessment.

Same. I am a very weak guy and I can still do 20 if I put my mind to it. A woman wanting to make a profession out of combat duty ought to show some real muscle.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

I don't think 43 push ups in two minutes is unrealistic for the military.

It is, in fact, perfectly realistic to achieve that with proper training.

Sure, but to know whether the female standard is too low we'd actually need to know how these women perform and not just base our judgement solely (though I'll agree it's relevant) on whether they pass the female/male standards.

Well, physical performance is actually tied in to how you can lift your own weight and move it around in a determined space.

There's a reason why the very first training you should be doing, even if you don't have any weights around, is trying to do pushups and other activities that require lifting your own body weight from the ground, because it actually says a lot about your base physical performance.

[Conserative Morality]

You want equality, remove the female 'standard'. Both sexes have the same standard. Performance in a Combat Arms role is extremely dependent on how physically fit someone is. If you're on the verge of passing out after running 100m in full kit and can't accurately fire your weapon then you have no use being in a combat element.


When in Rome, do as the Romans.

I'm a big supporter of women in the military, and I agree. Unisex standards are a must going into the future.

[Ceterius]

See, what I'm getting from this thread, is that there are a lot of sexist fraggers in the military today.

[Imperial City-States]

See, what I'm getting from this thread, is that there are a lot of sexist fraggers in the military today.

Sexism has little to do with it. People are a little touchy when it comes to their lives being put at risk.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

No problem.

Now, the only thing that concerns me is the 19 pushups. I'd say that if a woman wants to be in the military at least 40 should be a competent assessment.

Same. I am a very weak guy and I can still do 20 if I put my mind to it. A woman wanting to make a profession out of combat duty ought to show some real muscle.

More importantly, women wanting to make a profession out of the military have to show ambition.

It's not enough to just be a woman who has real muscle, since she is at a handicap because of the preconceived notions people have about women. It's like being a short guy in a team. I'm 5'6", against a bunch of 6'0" guys I gotta compensate with something, and my height is not it.

[Imperial City-States]

Same. I am a very weak guy and I can still do 20 if I put my mind to it. A woman wanting to make a profession out of combat duty ought to show some real muscle.

More importantly, women wanting to make a profession out of the military have to show ambition.

It's not enough to just be a woman who has real muscle, since she is at a handicap because of the preconceived notions people have about women. It's like being a short guy in a team. I'm 5'6", against a bunch of 6'0" guys I gotta compensate with something, and my height is not it.

In the military, and especially the Combat Arms side of the house. Respect is not given (beyond rank) it's earned. For a woman to be respected she needs to earn it, and by that i mean she has to be on top of literally everything and be the best at everything, that is the only way she will gain respect.

[Conserative Morality]

See, what I'm getting from this thread, is that there are a lot of sexist fraggers in the military today.

Sexism has little to do with it. People are a little touchy when it comes to their lives being put at risk.

First reply in this thread was sexist as fuck. Sexism may not be everyone's reasoning, but it's not exactly marginal either.

[Conserative Morality]

In the military, and especially the Combat Arms side of the house. Respect is not given (beyond rank) it's earned. For a woman to be respected she needs to earn it, and by that i mean she has to be on top of literally everything and be the best at everything, that is the only way she will gain respect.

And the same standard holds for respecting men? Being on top of everything and being the best at everything?

[Imperial City-States]

In the military, and especially the Combat Arms side of the house. Respect is not given (beyond rank) it's earned. For a woman to be respected she needs to earn it, and by that i mean she has to be on top of literally everything and be the best at everything, that is the only way she will gain respect.

And the same standard holds for respecting men? Being on top of everything and being the best at everything?

In my experience? absolutely.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

More importantly, women wanting to make a profession out of the military have to show ambition.

It's not enough to just be a woman who has real muscle, since she is at a handicap because of the preconceived notions people have about women. It's like being a short guy in a team. I'm 5'6", against a bunch of 6'0" guys I gotta compensate with something, and my height is not it.

In the military, and especially the Combat Arms side of the house. Respect is not given (beyond rank) it's earned. For a woman to be respected she needs to earn it, and by that i mean she has to be on top of literally everything and be the best at everything, that is the only way she will gain respect.

Sure, but I'd also expect that men are held to the same standard.

Also, I'd expect a woman to have more "guile" in doing things (or knowing more tricks to make her life easier) than men in the same position would, even though I wouldn't require it of her, It would also not surprise me if she knew or picks up a few tricks to compensate.

[Conserative Morality]

In my experience? absolutely.

Then my only objection is 'best at everything'. You can't have a unit of people who are all the best.

[Imperial City-States]

In my experience? absolutely.

The my only objection is 'best at everything'. You can't have a unit of people who are all the best.

Of course, and that's a known thing. However that doesn't stop you from striving to be the best.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

In my experience? absolutely.

Then my only objection is 'best at everything'. You can't have a unit of people who are all the best.

I disagree with that notion.

If you aren't trying to be the best at everything (yes, you can even be the best at picking up dog's shit) then you aren't trying hard enough.

There's only so much to be said about raw muscle though, it also requires guile to get there.