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Will Classical Liberalism Kill the Social Justice Left?

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Slarvainian
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Will Classical Liberalism Kill the Social Justice Left?

Postby Slarvainian » Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:05 pm

The basis for this forum is the article that Loki the Scottish Rapper wrote on his website pertaining to the social justice movement.

Article:http://lokithescottishrapper.com/2016/02/25/privilege-and-prejudice-social-justice-in-an-age-of-male-confusion/

There are a number of points I would first like to highlight of Loki's article, because I think he is one-hundred percent correct.

First is his assessment of social theories being applied to people's situations. A few weeks ago I posted a forum asking "Where does the philosophy of the SJW's come from?" and on this forum I expressed suspicions that the philosophy came from early days of cultural relativism and Marxism. On further reflection and investigation I have come to another conclusion that I believe to be more adequate in answering that question. I think this modern day social justice philosophy of intersectionality comes from the long tradition of rationalism, that truth is what makes the most coherent sense within a system. This idea of truth though I have to reject, and Loki in his article does this to some extent as well. Loki writes about how feminist social theory cannot adequately explain every situation, and that even if they are not popular facts, they still need to be recognize regardless if their politically correct or not, because they are facts.

While, on the outside at trendy activist rallies and public sector jollies it becomes worryingly fashionable to dismiss their experience as well as much of the hard science around why they are so unruly – because it’s politically incorrect to acknowledge it.


Loki goes on to explore the current problems of the social justice movement. For example, those that defend people's right to free speech, depending on the circumstances, are accused of being sexist as well as triggering warning's and their actual benefit. By highlighting these issues, Loki then delivers his warning for the future of the social justice movement. He says the opponents of scoial justice (siting popular YouTube'rs such as ThunderF00t and Sargon of Akad (The latter being the one who brought this article to my attention). Loki writes that:
Where many on the left would find it politically incorrect to call a spade a spade, as it were, this emergent counter culture is not only unafraid of slanderous accusations but they also come to the party armed to the teeth with facts and data supporting many of their controversial positions.


And indeed this is a position that I agree with. I don't think that the arguments of Social Justice can stand up to the arguments of Classical Liberalism or Libertarianism. At the end of the day people want to left alone to their own devices.

So what is your opinion NationStates?
Last edited by Slarvainian on Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Geilinor » Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:08 pm

There is no unified "SJW philosophy". Attempting to look at it this way won't work.
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Postby Ardoki » Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:08 pm

Classical liberalism / libertarianism is basically fascism, it will never harm the left's integrity!
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Postby Jochistan » Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:11 pm

Both are essentially prone to social liberal type attitudes.
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Postby The Liberated Territories » Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:13 pm

Ah, this is about social justice warriors? As I said before, the New Left - the "Regressive Left" - tends to mimic the old right and the "Alt-Right." Libertarianism and classical liberalism haven't changed much at all in the past 60 years values-wise, only the mainstream left - which had been full throttle defenders of free speech, religion, and association, have done a 180.

Ardoki wrote:Classical liberalism / libertarianism is basically fascism, it will never harm the left's integrity!


Here's a good example of the Regressive Left, which has resorted to accusations of fascism in order to shut down debates and conceal it's own authoritarianism.
Last edited by The Liberated Territories on Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:17 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby Jochistan » Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:14 pm

Unless The Libertarians in question are Paleoconservatives like most of the Tea Party Movement. Then it's prone to cognitive dissonence between libertarianism and far right social values.
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Postby Slarvainian » Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:18 pm

Geilinor wrote:There is no unified "SJW philosophy". Attempting to look at it this way won't work.

Of course. The same way that there is no unified christian position or any other idea really. Labels just help us simplify things. I do express in my previous forum that what I am closely talking about is the regressive left which I define using this previous Wikipedia definition (which has since been changed ironically) "The regressive left is a political epithet used to negatively characterize a section of leftists who are accused of holding politically regressive views (as opposed to progressive views) by tolerating illiberal principles and ideology for the sake of multiculturalism.[1][2] The implications of the term are controversial and contested, and as such its recognition and adoption have been limited."
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Postby Writwross » Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:20 pm

The People's Fair Leadership of Writwross proclaims your argument irrelevant. Females are superior to males and this is a simple fact, supported by evolutionary theory. You shall be de - maled.

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Postby Victoriala » Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:21 pm

Well, being reasonable most of the time helps.

Writwross wrote:The People's Fair Leadership of Writwross proclaims your argument irrelevant. Females are superior to males and this is a simple fact, supported by evolutionary theory. You shall be de - maled.

Normie get out reeeeeeeeeeee

Ardoki wrote:Classical liberalism / libertarianism is basically fascism, it will never harm the left's integrity!

Kek
Last edited by Victoriala on Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Ardoki » Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:22 pm

The Liberated Territories wrote:Ah, this is about social justice warriors? As I said before, the New Left - the "Regressive Left" - tends to mimic the old right and the "Alt-Right." Libertarianism and classical liberalism haven't changed much at all in the past 60 years values-wise, only the mainstream left - which had been full throttle defenders of free speech, religion, and association, have done a 180.

Ardoki wrote:Classical liberalism / libertarianism is basically fascism, it will never harm the left's integrity!


Here's a good example of the Regressive Left, which has resorted to accusations of fascism in order to shut down debates and conceal it's own authoritarianism.

'Regressive left' is a fabricated word, most commonly used by white supremacist fake atheist kangaroos, which has no actual meaning.

I'm a true progressive, and you better accept it.

Anyway; hate speech, religious intolerance and organised bigots; are a threat to humanity.
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Postby Jochistan » Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:22 pm

The Liberated Territories wrote:Ah, this is about social justice warriors? As I said before, the New Left - the "Regressive Left" - tends to mimic the old right and the "Alt-Right." Libertarianism and classical liberalism haven't changed much at all in the past 60 years values-wise, only the mainstream left - which had been full throttle defenders of free speech, religion, and association, have done a 180.

Ardoki wrote:Classical liberalism / libertarianism is basically fascism, it will never harm the left's integrity!


Here's a good example of the Regressive Left, which has resorted to accusations of fascism in order to shut down debates and conceal it's own authoritarianism.

Many American "Libertarians" haven't remained too consistent. With the largely prevalent attitude among some libertarians/paleocons of "Government needs to get out of our lives! There should be laws against these foreigners, liberals, homosexuals, non-Christian, un American Commies!"
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Postby The East Marches » Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:22 pm

If only we should be so lucky. However, we will not be. That would require people to have the ability to reason and think independently. Those are skills most people are sadly lacking. This Atlantic article summed up my thoughts on SJWs assaults on what "liberals" used to defend.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/03/a-letter-to-emory-please-stop-fueling-trumpism/475356/
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Postby The Liberated Territories » Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:23 pm

Ardoki wrote:
The Liberated Territories wrote:Ah, this is about social justice warriors? As I said before, the New Left - the "Regressive Left" - tends to mimic the old right and the "Alt-Right." Libertarianism and classical liberalism haven't changed much at all in the past 60 years values-wise, only the mainstream left - which had been full throttle defenders of free speech, religion, and association, have done a 180.



Here's a good example of the Regressive Left, which has resorted to accusations of fascism in order to shut down debates and conceal it's own authoritarianism.

'Regressive left' is a fabricated word, most commonly used by white supremacist fake atheist kangaroos, which has no actual meaning.

I'm a true progressive, and you better accept it.

Anyway; hate speech, religious intolerance and organised bigots; are a threat to humanity.


Aren't all words fabricated though? I mean, if you accept that words are granted meaning by the society which uses them, then I think "Regressive Left" is an actual word since most people will understand what it means.

Ok.

I agree. That's why I oppose the Regressive Left.
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Postby Slarvainian » Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:24 pm

Jochistan wrote:Unless The Libertarians in question are Paleoconservatives like most of the Tea Party Movement. Then it's prone to cognitive dissonence between libertarianism and far right social values.

Ya a example of a libertarian I might be talking about would be closer to Garry Johnson.
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Postby Writwross » Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:24 pm

Victoriala wrote:Well, being reasonable most of the time helps.

Writwross wrote:The People's Fair Leadership of Writwross proclaims your argument irrelevant. Females are superior to males and this is a simple fact, supported by evolutionary theory. You shall be de - maled.

Normie get out reeeeeeeeeeee

Ardoki wrote:Classical liberalism / libertarianism is basically fascism, it will never harm the left's integrity!

Kek




You appear to have somehow obtained above - average levels of human intellectual acumen. Lobotomy is the solution to this disorder of social ability.

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Postby Victoriala » Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:26 pm

Writwross wrote:
Victoriala wrote:Well, being reasonable most of the time helps.


Normie get out reeeeeeeeeeee


Kek


You appear to have somehow obtained above - average levels of human intellectual acumen. Lobotomy is the solution to this disorder of social ability.


Thanks fam, obviously you're better than me and shit
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Postby Jochistan » Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:26 pm

In America specifically, I think the views of non Paleocon Libertarians would be a welcome respite from "leftists".

And if Christian Democracy advocates could get less crazy and more close to actual Traditionalism, that would be chill.
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Postby Ardoki » Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:27 pm

The Liberated Territories wrote:
Ardoki wrote:'Regressive left' is a fabricated word, most commonly used by white supremacist fake atheist kangaroos, which has no actual meaning.

I'm a true progressive, and you better accept it.

Anyway; hate speech, religious intolerance and organised bigots; are a threat to humanity.


Aren't all words fabricated though? I mean, if you accept that words are granted meaning by the society which uses them, then I think "Regressive Left" is an actual word since most people will understand what it means.

Ok.

I agree. That's why I oppose the Regressive Left.

The 'regressive left' support free speech (which should rightfully be restricted by hate speech laws to prevent intolerance), religious freedom (when religion should be restricted to the private sphere [or eliminated and replaced with a progressive state ideology] to ensure secularity and they should pay taxes on revenue and not be hateful bigots), and the freedom for bigots to riot (when they should be tolerance and accepting of others).

I'm a progressive!
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Postby The Liberated Territories » Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:28 pm

Jochistan wrote:
The Liberated Territories wrote:Ah, this is about social justice warriors? As I said before, the New Left - the "Regressive Left" - tends to mimic the old right and the "Alt-Right." Libertarianism and classical liberalism haven't changed much at all in the past 60 years values-wise, only the mainstream left - which had been full throttle defenders of free speech, religion, and association, have done a 180.



Here's a good example of the Regressive Left, which has resorted to accusations of fascism in order to shut down debates and conceal it's own authoritarianism.

Many American "Libertarians" haven't remained too consistent. With the largely prevalent attitude among some libertarians/paleocons of "Government needs to get out of our lives! There should be laws against these foreigners, liberals, homosexuals, non-Christian, un American Commies!"


The platform of the Libertarian Party hasn't really changed much since the 70s. Consolidated and moderated, maybe, but the platform then supported gay marriage, as it does still today.

I can't recall many libertarians being against homosexuals, non-Christians, or foreigners. Have you watched the LP debates? All three candidates believe that immigration should be reformed to be more welcoming of immigrants while streamlining the process to our benefit, for example. All three have supported gay marriage (or more specifically, getting the government out of marriage.)

Can you point me the data of libertarians being against homosexual marriage, foreigners, et al? Here's mine:

http://www.isidewith.com/poll/965633/962379
http://www.isidewith.com/poll/1566865877/962379
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Postby Zoice » Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:29 pm

Fuck this shit, alt-right wackos and regressive lefties everywhere. So many people reacting to one movement by going way to far in the opposite direction.
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Postby Victoriala » Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:30 pm

Ardoki wrote:
The Liberated Territories wrote:Ah, this is about social justice warriors? As I said before, the New Left - the "Regressive Left" - tends to mimic the old right and the "Alt-Right." Libertarianism and classical liberalism haven't changed much at all in the past 60 years values-wise, only the mainstream left - which had been full throttle defenders of free speech, religion, and association, have done a 180.



Here's a good example of the Regressive Left, which has resorted to accusations of fascism in order to shut down debates and conceal it's own authoritarianism.

'Regressive left' is a fabricated word, most commonly used by white supremacist fake atheist kangaroos, which has no actual meaning.

I'm a true progressive, and you better accept it.

Anyway; hate speech, religious intolerance and organised bigots; are a threat to humanity.


That's too much a utopian ideal to begin with. Chill the fuck out. Quit generalizing, you're proving Jochi right more than anything.
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Postby The Liberated Territories » Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:30 pm

Ardoki wrote:
The Liberated Territories wrote:
Aren't all words fabricated though? I mean, if you accept that words are granted meaning by the society which uses them, then I think "Regressive Left" is an actual word since most people will understand what it means.

Ok.

I agree. That's why I oppose the Regressive Left.

The 'regressive left' support free speech (which should rightfully be restricted by hate speech laws to prevent intolerance), religious freedom (when religion should be restricted to the private sphere [or eliminated and replaced with a progressive state ideology] to ensure secularity and they should pay taxes on revenue and not be hateful bigots), and the freedom for bigots to riot (when they should be tolerance and accepting of others).

I'm a progressive!


I never heard the Regressive Left support that. Here's the definition of Regressive Left:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regressive_left

So progressives are against freedom of speech and religion? Confirms what I knew, but thanks anyway.
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Postby Victoriala » Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:31 pm

Ardoki wrote:
The Liberated Territories wrote:
Aren't all words fabricated though? I mean, if you accept that words are granted meaning by the society which uses them, then I think "Regressive Left" is an actual word since most people will understand what it means.

Ok.

I agree. That's why I oppose the Regressive Left.

The 'regressive left' support free speech (which should rightfully be restricted by hate speech laws to prevent intolerance), religious freedom (when religion should be restricted to the private sphere [or eliminated and replaced with a progressive state ideology] to ensure secularity and they should pay taxes on revenue and not be hateful bigots), and the freedom for bigots to riot (when they should be tolerance and accepting of others).

I'm a progressive!


Stop contradicting yourself holy shit

Free is free. Get over it.
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Ardoki
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Postby Ardoki » Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:31 pm

Victoriala wrote:
Ardoki wrote:'Regressive left' is a fabricated word, most commonly used by white supremacist fake atheist kangaroos, which has no actual meaning.

I'm a true progressive, and you better accept it.

Anyway; hate speech, religious intolerance and organised bigots; are a threat to humanity.


That's too much a utopian ideal to begin with. Chill the fuck out. Quit generalizing, you're proving Jochi right more than anything.

But Jochistan is talking about libertarians.

I ain't no libertarian! :rofl:
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Postby Slarvainian » Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:31 pm

Ardoki wrote:
The Liberated Territories wrote:
Aren't all words fabricated though? I mean, if you accept that words are granted meaning by the society which uses them, then I think "Regressive Left" is an actual word since most people will understand what it means.

Ok.

I agree. That's why I oppose the Regressive Left.

The 'regressive left' support free speech (which should rightfully be restricted by hate speech laws to prevent intolerance), religious freedom (when religion should be restricted to the private sphere [or eliminated and replaced with a progressive state ideology] to ensure secularity and they should pay taxes on revenue and not be hateful bigots), and the freedom for bigots to riot (when they should be tolerance and accepting of others).

I'm a progressive!


I reject hate speech on the same grounds that I reject capital punishment. The way to confront ideas is not to ban them but engage with them. Let the marketplace of ideas work itself out and if you have such faith in your ideas they will win a large enough portion of the population in order to have them enacted in society. You don't defeat Brownshirts with Brownshirt tactic's.
V: Beneath this mask there is more than flesh. Beneath this mask there is an idea, Mr. Creedy. And ideas are bulletproof.

Sophist, Ironist, the po-mo-neo-marxist Jordan Peterson warned you about.

I really enjoy talking ideas with people so feel free to TG me.

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