On Creationism and Evolution.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Yes, this is yet another one of those threads that come up annually.

The old debate between science and religion, whether humans come from chimps or not, and whether or not God created the Earth in 7 literal days or he just created the laws that put everything in motion or shit just happened (no, it isn't really that shallow, but you know, hype).

As a Deist, I find myself accepting evolutionary theory.

I also have a system of belief however, in that God, in His infinite wisdom, created the "laws" of the universe as they are because they made the most sense and let the universe run with it. In other words, I see God as a prime cause of things. Now, this doesn't necessarily mean that I accept intelligent design, as intelligent design requires for God to design creation, but rather, that he set things in motion and stepped out.

Not only that, but also evolution has tons of evidence which back up the explanation given by science. Which makes it a theory, and a perfectly valid one at that.

Of course, my belief is not the same as thinking that my belief is an actual science or even the truth. The science is science, and in the end, evolution is a thing I accept. The philosophical/theological aspect of it doesn't mean I don't see the science for what it is.

That being said, what say you, NSG? Are you a creationist, do you agree with evolution or not? Any flaws you might think the whole thing has? Does it even make sense to say that evolution contradicts religion? Is the conflict thesis even necessary? What are your thoughts?

[The United Colonies of Earth]

Unless you're a literalist and your religion explains how all organisms on this planet originated, then of course you can say it was the shit of the earth goddess and the semen of the moon god that made man and claim all other explanations to be in opposition and false heresies.
I try to get my information about what the world is from observation and reason, and that means, personally, science. So I support the modern evolutionary synthesis, as far as I know about it.

[Wizlandia]

Yes, this is yet another one of those threads that come up annually.

The old debate between science and religion, whether humans come from chimps or not, and whether or not God created the Earth in 7 literal days or he just created the laws that put everything in motion or shit just happened (no, it isn't really that shallow, but you know, hype).

As a Deist, I find myself accepting evolutionary theory.

I also have a system of belief however, in that God, in His infinite wisdom, created the "laws" of the universe as they are because they made the most sense and let the universe run with it. In other words, I see God as a prime cause of things. Now, this doesn't necessarily mean that I accept intelligent design, as intelligent design requires for God to design creation, but rather, that he set things in motion and stepped out.

Not only that, but also evolution has tons of evidence which back up the explanation given by science. Which makes it a theory, and a perfectly valid one at that.

Of course, my belief is not the same as thinking that my belief is an actual science or even the truth. The science is science, and in the end, evolution is a thing I accept. The philosophical/theological aspect of it doesn't mean I don't see the science for what it is.

That being said, what say you, NSG? Are you a creationist, do you agree with evolution or not? Any flaws you might think the whole thing has? Does it even make sense to say that evolution contradicts religion? Is the conflict thesis even necessary? What are your thoughts?

If you don't mind me asking, why are you a deist?

[Washington Resistance Army]

I'm not a creationist, I agree with evolution because that's currently the best answer we have for the question of where we came from, I don't see many flaws with it beyond lacking certain things in the fossil record (which isn't so much a flaw in evolution, fossilization is just a bitch), it does make sense to say that evolution contradicts religion but only when said religion has very literal beliefs that contradict what we know.

And no, we didn't come from monkeys so lets stop that before it gets going

[Zoice]

I'm not a creationist, I agree with evolution because that's currently the best answer we have for the question of where we came from, I don't see many flaws with it beyond lacking certain things in the fossil record (which isn't so much a flaw in evolution, fossilization is just a bitch), it does make sense to say that evolution contradicts religion but only when said religion has very literal beliefs that contradict what we know.

And no, we didn't come from monkeys so lets stop that before it gets going

The fossil record isn't even close to the most convincing evidence for evolution, it's just the most visual and obvious. Genetic evidence is pretty much indisputable at this point.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Yes, this is yet another one of those threads that come up annually.

The old debate between science and religion, whether humans come from chimps or not, and whether or not God created the Earth in 7 literal days or he just created the laws that put everything in motion or shit just happened (no, it isn't really that shallow, but you know, hype).

As a Deist, I find myself accepting evolutionary theory.

I also have a system of belief however, in that God, in His infinite wisdom, created the "laws" of the universe as they are because they made the most sense and let the universe run with it. In other words, I see God as a prime cause of things. Now, this doesn't necessarily mean that I accept intelligent design, as intelligent design requires for God to design creation, but rather, that he set things in motion and stepped out.

Not only that, but also evolution has tons of evidence which back up the explanation given by science. Which makes it a theory, and a perfectly valid one at that.

Of course, my belief is not the same as thinking that my belief is an actual science or even the truth. The science is science, and in the end, evolution is a thing I accept. The philosophical/theological aspect of it doesn't mean I don't see the science for what it is.

That being said, what say you, NSG? Are you a creationist, do you agree with evolution or not? Any flaws you might think the whole thing has? Does it even make sense to say that evolution contradicts religion? Is the conflict thesis even necessary? What are your thoughts?

If you don't mind me asking, why are you a deist?

It makes the most sense from a "perfection" framework.

If God is perfect as Christians say, then, when he created the universe before setting it in motion, he must have created a perfect universe which does not need his intervention. As such, the theory of evolution, and our rise as human beings, is... "random" (and I use that word very arbitrarily, as I cannot find another way to describe it at the moment), but also perfectly logical.

Otherwise, to me, there is no perfect God.

[The United Colonies of Earth]

I'm not a creationist, I agree with evolution because that's currently the best answer we have for the question of where we came from, I don't see many flaws with it beyond lacking certain things in the fossil record (which isn't so much a flaw in evolution, fossilization is just a bitch), it does make sense to say that evolution contradicts religion but only when said religion has very literal beliefs that contradict what we know.

And no, we didn't come from monkeys so lets stop that before it gets going

Nope, monkeys came from us.

[Wizlandia]

If you don't mind me asking, why are you a deist?

It makes the most sense from a "perfection" framework.

If God is perfect as Christians say, then, when he created the universe before setting it in motion, he must have created a perfect universe which does not need his intervention.

Otherwise, to me, there is no perfect God.

Wait. Why does the universe need to be "perfect"? How do we know the universe is "perfect"? What constitutes "perfect"?

i.e. Why is the "perfection" framework true?

[Soldati Senza Confini]

It makes the most sense from a "perfection" framework.

If God is perfect as Christians say, then, when he created the universe before setting it in motion, he must have created a perfect universe which does not need his intervention.

Otherwise, to me, there is no perfect God.

Wait. Why does the universe need to be "perfect"? How do we know the universe is "perfect"? What constitutes "perfect"?

i.e. Why is the "perfection" framework true?

It doesn't need to be perfect, and that is, in fact, your own prerogative to believe whether it is or not.

I am saying, from the point of Christianity, whereupon God is perfect, then he could not have created an imperfect universe where he has to intervene, and hence the logical conclusion is that the universe is perfect because a perfect being does not create an imperfect thing; this would be in direct contradiction to the "perfect" deity.

[Quokkastan]

If most Americans come from Europeans, then why are there still Europeans?

Checkmate, Atheist.

[Luminesa]

If most Americans come from Europeans, then why are there still Europeans?

Checkmate, Atheist.

...I'm Catholic...and I am so confused.

[Napkiraly]

If most Americans come from Europeans, then why are there still Europeans?

Checkmate, Atheist.

...I'm Catholic...and I am so confused.

It's a play on a very stupid argument made by many creationists "If man came from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?"

[Renewed Imperial Germany]

...I'm Catholic...and I am so confused.

It's a play on a very stupid argument made by many creationists "If man came from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?"

I've never heard that argument, but if I did I'd probably point out that we didn't actually come from monkeys, but only share a common ancestor with them. Thats of course after a facepalm of megaton proportions.

[Luminesa]

...I'm Catholic...and I am so confused.

It's a play on a very stupid argument made by many creationists "If man came from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?"

Ohhh, okay...

Well, just because we came from something doesn't mean what we came from has to be dead.

Rock came from blues, but blues certainly isn't dead. Blues has survived because it musically has things that people can relate to today. Same with rock music! :3

[Napkiraly]

It's a play on a very stupid argument made by many creationists "If man came from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?"

I've never heard that argument, but if I did I'd probably point out that we didn't actually come from monkeys, but only share a common ancestor with them. Thats of course after a facepalm of megaton proportions.

It's quite a common argument, at least in my experience. Indeed yes, it is a very facepalm inducing argument.

[Napkiraly]

It's a play on a very stupid argument made by many creationists "If man came from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?"

Ohhh, okay...

Well, just because we came from something doesn't mean what we came from has to be dead.

Rock came from blues, but blues certainly isn't dead. Blues has survived because it musically has things that people can relate to today. Same with rock music! :3

Well the largest error in their argument is that we did not come from monkeys, though we share a common ancestor with far back in time.

[Wallenburg]

I accept the theory that is actually backed by facts.

[Othelos]

Yes, this is yet another one of those threads that come up annually.

The old debate between science and religion, whether humans come from chimps or not, and whether or not God created the Earth in 7 literal days or he just created the laws that put everything in motion or shit just happened (no, it isn't really that shallow, but you know, hype).

As a Deist, I find myself accepting evolutionary theory.

I also have a system of belief however, in that God, in His infinite wisdom, created the "laws" of the universe as they are because they made the most sense and let the universe run with it. In other words, I see God as a prime cause of things. Now, this doesn't necessarily mean that I accept intelligent design, as intelligent design requires for God to design creation, but rather, that he set things in motion and stepped out.

Not only that, but also evolution has tons of evidence which back up the explanation given by science. Which makes it a theory, and a perfectly valid one at that.

Of course, my belief is not the same as thinking that my belief is an actual science or even the truth. The science is science, and in the end, evolution is a thing I accept. The philosophical/theological aspect of it doesn't mean I don't see the science for what it is.

That being said, what say you, NSG? Are you a creationist, do you agree with evolution or not? Any flaws you might think the whole thing has? Does it even make sense to say that evolution contradicts religion? Is the conflict thesis even necessary? What are your thoughts?

Have you heard of the multiverse? I feel that this view, that god created the universe because "it's so good, what are the chances that this is random" is limited to the idea that there is only one universe. It could be that there are tons of universes, but because of how random everything is, the laws of this specific universe (they are not necessarily operating under the same laws) luckily allowed for life to eventually rise on a tiny speck inside of it.

[Quokkastan]

It's a play on a very stupid argument made by many creationists "If man came from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?"

Ohhh, okay...

Well, just because we came from something doesn't mean what we came from has to be dead.

Rock came from blues, but blues certainly isn't dead. Blues has survived because it musically has things that people can relate to today. Same with rock music! :3

Whereas the Monkeys have survived because baby boomers can;t just listen to the Beatles all the time.

[Luminesa]

Ohhh, okay...

Well, just because we came from something doesn't mean what we came from has to be dead.

Rock came from blues, but blues certainly isn't dead. Blues has survived because it musically has things that people can relate to today. Same with rock music! :3

Well the largest error in their argument is that we did not come from monkeys, though we share a common ancestor with far back in time.

Right.

That, and I listened to Eric Clapton today and am feeling particularly musical.

[Jochistan]

God created through the method of Evolution is how I would put it.

Creationists are often just people with a misunderstanding of what evolution is.

[Luminesa]

Ohhh, okay...

Well, just because we came from something doesn't mean what we came from has to be dead.

Rock came from blues, but blues certainly isn't dead. Blues has survived because it musically has things that people can relate to today. Same with rock music! :3

Whereas the Monkeys have survived because baby boomers can;t just listen to the Beatles all the time.

Also Led Zeppelin, the Rolling Stones, Motown, etc.

[Renewed Imperial Germany]

Whereas the Monkeys have survived because baby boomers can;t just listen to the Beatles all the time.

Also Led Zeppelin, the Rolling Stones, Motown, etc.

Don't dis Zeppelin and the Stones, there actually pretty good.

[The United Colonies of Earth]

If most Americans come from Europeans, then why are there still Europeans?

Checkmate, Atheist.

Hitler didn't kill enough of 'em.

God created through the method of Evolution is how I would put it.

Creationists are often just people with a misunderstanding of what evolution is.

*thumbs up*
NS needs a thumbs-up smiley.

[Luminesa]

Also Led Zeppelin, the Rolling Stones, Motown, etc.

Don't dis Zeppelin and the Stones, there actually pretty good.

Oh, trust me, I love Led Zeppelin, and a lot of old music. Stones, not so much, but "When The Levee Breaks" is my favorite from LZ.

But we gettin' off-topic, now.