Christian Discussion Thread VII: The Christ Awakens.

[Luminesa]

That's the term they chose for that? Because that's somewhat vulgar itself if you know what the Greek it's derived from means. (Copro- from 'κόπρος' (kopros) meaning 'faeces', and -lalia from 'λαλιά' (lalia), itself from 'lalein', meaning "to talk".)

It is. When I was told I'd "developed" coprolalia, my doctor told me that to make me laugh at least a little about it. The tic for making obscene gestures (such as "flipping the bird") is called copropraxia, faeces+gestures.

That sounds unfair, in your Catholic church I mean.

At the same time, I am very happy you found a church which welcomed you with open arms and they provided the help and acceptance you needed.

I hold no contempt against the Catholic Church. I still consider myself Catholic, just Anglo-Catholic and not Roman Catholic. I wish I could go back, as I feel like being Catholic is a part of my heritage (I'm from the UK, but my father is from France) I just don't feel like I'd ever be as welcomed as I was the first time I stepped into an Anglican parish.

Maybe you could go to another Catholic church in the parish? There's got to be one that'll take you, somewhere.

[Constantinopolis]

Who asked you not to return?

Why were you asked not to return, or is it too personal?

Man, why they kicked you out?

Catholic churches ain't supposed to be kicking people out.

I was 15 when it happened, but basically, around that time, I developed coprolalia (as a side note, I have tourettes), which is the involuntary use of obscene language. It became pretty bad, and the congregation made several complaints in regards to it, and eventually the priest sat me down and said I was making others uncomfortable and they'd prefer it if I no longer attended - but offered to bring the Eucharist to my house after Mass every Sunday.

I went to my local Anglican Church and no one was bothered by it, instead, they welcomed me and embraced me for who I am. Their parish nurse worked with me in relaxation techniques to help my tics, and techniques on how to suppress my tics for longer (tics are involuntary, but can be suppressed for a short period of time). My coprolalia is almost non-existent now (tics also come and go), but I have never considered going back to the Catholic Church. I was made to feel like I should be ashamed about myself for something I can't control, like I wasn't meant to be a part of society when there is really nothing wrong with me at all.

I am very very sorry to hear about what happened at the Catholic parish. I would still strongly recommend that you consider returning to the Catholic Church at some point in the future - although I am not Catholic myself and I criticized the Catholic Church just a few hours ago, I greatly favour Catholicism over Anglicanism, for theological and ecclesiological reasons - but I understand why you have no desire to go back.

All of us Christians, but especially those who are ordained or considering ordination, need to always bear in mind the effect that our words and deeds will have upon other people's spiritual journeys. I see far too many people having been driven away from the Church through a lack of love on the part of the priest or the congregation.

Because he belonged to a part of the universal Church that never paid any attention to claims of supremacy by the bishop of Rome, and which was organized like the present-day Orthodox Church, held precisely the same beliefs as the present-day Orthodox Church, and used the same liturgies as the present-day Orthodox Church.

And because it is beyond preposterous to suggest that St. John Damascene would have ever endorsed your heresy of the filioque, the submission of his Patriarch to the bishop of Rome, or the imposition of Latin Rite practices on his flock, which is what your Church promoted for 90% of its existence before suddenly changing its mind when it was no longer convenient.

And here we see Cont upset over literally nothing. There are dozens of Saints shared between the Orthodox and Catholic Churches. No point in getting over a tizzy about it.

Actually it's hundreds, if not thousands, of saints that we have in common. I got upset over (what I perceived as) Bari's patronizing language (e.g. "your schism"), not the actual content of what he was saying.

...and then I overdid it and got even more patronizing in my response. I apologize.

However, I stand by the content of what I said, even though I should have phrased it differently. And I'll still defend Catholicism in a debate between Catholicism and any non-Orthodox Christian perspective, of course.

[Warped Woods]

Lemme tell you a story about how I was immersed in Christianity. It's 2010 in a country with a rather moderate Christian populace. At the time even conservatives here could turn the other way and say "you know what, let them marry" or "if she needs it, then give her an abortion". Most of them are even for humanitarian immigration. We have a state church, which is separate from the state in all but the funds it receives from the state. I'm also at my confirmation camp.

It was one of the happiest times of my life, seeing how I've been bullied from secondary school to junior high. I got friends from all around the country, from the capital to the smallest towns up north. They had different interests: some had chosen to study the Bible or become a missionary alongside their earthly hobbies, such as anime, music, magic tricks and sports. I maintained good friendships with them over the years afterward, when I participated in other camps and events, such as Christian music festivals. All was well.

However, that wasn't meant to last. Once the discussion went into politics, the liberal me at the time was shocked at a lot of their authoritarian values regarding gay marriage, lgbt rights, abortion, euthanasia and drug use. The camps themselves were arranged by a neo-pietist organization, which was very spiritual and very strict with morals and politics. Of course I tried to ignore that to keep my friendships intact. However, the more I dove into politics, the more I noticed the outright regressive views around me. Blocking them off wasn't working and soon I came to these camps only to be social, without paying attention to their message. Eventually I told my friend I had become an atheist a year after I had broken myself away from the church I was put in through my baptism.

Major influences to me becoming an atheist were primarily YouTubers The Amazing Atheist and MrRepzion. I had watched a lot of their videos and they informed me a lot of not only religion, but science and social issues in general. I was introduced to ranters on YouTube through them. I used to debate my Christian friends, of course, but looking back it was a wasted effort. Once reality is a matter of taste, it's better to just stop arguing. After all, you can't argue taste.

Not only did I become an atheist, but a vehement anti-Christian even going so far as to telling all Christians to "go back to Israel from whence they came with their Jew faith" and advocating church burnings. I told the same thing to Muslims and used both religions' bloody history of imperialism and mass murder and their doctrines as a basis for my rage. The rage led me to cut ties to most of my Christian friends and was a major factor to me leaving Facebook and not going back.

Here I am now: an egoist anarchist who is largely indifferent about religions themselves, but wastes no time pointing out why they're wrong. At least I stopped being utterly mad. Nowadays me being for or against Christians is largely dependent on my mood: on a rainy day I'll try hard not to, but I'll probably still end up hating them for being Christian. At least this forum has shown there to be a massive amount of left-wing Christians, which is a fresh change for me.

If I happen to go against you with bare teeth and claws, I'm probably just having a bad day and not really being a christophobe anymore. To me, Christianity is just like any idea: some of its adherents are stupid loudmouths spewing idiocy with the smarter ones facepalming at the amount of fail. It's the same with Christianity as it is with Islam, Hinduism, communism, feminism or any other idea.

Moral-wise, truth-wise and reality-wise I don't think Christianity provides us with good answers. Its hypotheses are holey and its morals are, if not backwards, found in most other religions. I think Christianity had its time in the spotlight, but all fun is bound to come to an end some time. I don't like Christianity, but I've had my beefs with numerous other ideas and still do. No reason to blindly hate them anymore. In Varg Vikernes' words: "Yes, but I hate no one. Hatred is irrational. I consider myself a rational person."

[Lost Memories]

Moral-wise, truth-wise and reality-wise I don't think Christianity provides us with good answers. Its hypotheses are holey and its morals are, if not backwards, found in most other religions.

"The answers" aren't something we're supposed to find out by ourselves?
If religion (any of it) doesn't negate personal growth, it should follow that the answers coming from religion are a guide, not definitive answers.

On a more personal level, whatever your personal ideas evolved over time, I hope you managed to get more friends even after breaking out from the ones you made during your happiest time. It would be a sad conclusion otherwise, or possibly, a bad answer.
(I'm not meaning it as "bad cause you left your original religion", but cause, at that time, you let your rage influence negatively your relationships)

[Constantinopolis]

Ok, I still owe Muinordgrad the second part of a reply, so here it is!

(I hope you excuse me, I'm not as proficient in editing these quotes as you are. I am trying to make each little paragraph represent an answer to each of your little paragraphs)

Don't worry, that's no problem at all!

But as for the main question, that makes sense. So basically Orthodoxy is like a house, with each "room" being a different form of interperitation of common teachings?

If I understand your metaphor correctly, yes.

There is a certain body of teachings - that is to say, doctrines - that all Orthodox Christians must adhere to, in order to be Orthodox. But these do not cover every single possible theological topic in every detail. There are some questions which are not answered by the doctrines of the Church. And that leaves room for certain differences of opinion between different Orthodox Christians, since we may give different answers to these questions which are left open-ended by the Church.

Why is a council of the church superior to the Word itself? John does say that the Word is God.

Yes, of course, but St. John is talking about Christ. The Word - the Logos - is Jesus Christ, and He is God.

A council of the Church is not superior to Scripture in the sense that a Council can contradict Scripture. Rather, when Scripture is ambiguous or can be interpreted in multiple ways (which happens a lot, as evidenced by the numerous disagreements between different Christian groups that all follow Sola Scriptura), a council of the Church has the divinely instituted authority to decide which of the competing interpretations is the correct one. This process is even described in Scripture itself (the Council of Jerusalem in Acts 15).

Indeed, given that the Church decided the Biblical canon in the first place, how can we say that the Church doesn't have any authority? If the Church has no authority, then why do we follow a list of books that were compiled by... the Church?

I have an old link to a copy of the Book of Enoch in English laying around. However, it isn't as impressive as you'd think. In fact, a fifth of the book is dedicated to a very, very intricate description of... a calendar, of all things. Albeit, it is a very accurate calendar, but a calendar nonetheless.

Thank you! I didn't know it was available in English. I'll take a look at it.

I have to go offline in a couple of minutes, so I wasn't able to write a reply to your entire post, Muinordgrad, but I just wanted to address this part:


Mary represents the connection between Christ and Humanity. We call her the Theotokos (literally "God-bearer", but most often rendered as "Mother of God") as an ever-present reminder that Jesus actually had a human mother. He was born. He was a baby. He was a child. He grew up. In a word, He was human (in addition to being God).

It may sound odd to emphasize this today, when everyone can agree that Jesus was human and it's the God thing that people have a problem with. But in the ancient world, it was easy to get people to agree that Jesus was either God or some other type of higher power (yes, even the pagans had no problem agreeing with this; what's one more god among hundreds?). It was the claim that Jesus was also human that they had a problem with. It was the claim that GOD BECAME MAN that was controversial (and also the claim that this God was the only god, but we can leave that aside for the moment).

God became man. That was one of the chief claims of Christianity that both pagans and Jews strongly opposed. So the Christians repeatedly emphasized the humanity of Jesus Christ. God became man. God became one of us. God was born (so let's celebrate His birth! - and thus, Christmas was invented). And God had a mother. So let's honour her.

The veneration of the Theotokos is, first and foremost, an enthusiastic affirmation of the fact that GOD BECAME MAN.

I don't think I ever connected that, thank you for sharing that with me! I will definitely take that into consideration!

I'm glad I could help!

Of course, there are more reasons for our veneration of the Theotokos, besides the importance of emphasizing that God became man. The Theotokos is the greatest of all the saints, the most righteous person who ever lived, a spiritual guide and wise elder in the early Church, and the person who enabled our salvation (because we Orthodox believe that, at the Annunciation, she had the choice to say no to the angel, and reject the idea of becoming the Mother of God; but she said yes, and in doing so, by submitting to God's will, she undid the transgression of Eve). We call her "our champion leader" and "more honourable than the cherubim and more glorious beyond compare than the seraphim".

Jesus Christ is an example to us, but He is perfect man and perfect God. We can try to imitate Him, but we can never hope to actually be like Him. The Theotokos, on the other hand, is someone that we could - at least in theory - be like. To be like the Theotokos is an achievable goal (however unlikely), whereas being like Christ is a goal that we certainly cannot achieve in this life. The Theotokos is the holiest "normal" human being in history, and it's precisely that fact - that she was just a regular human being, yet lived such a holy life - that drives a great deal of the Orthodox devotion to her.

Here you can also see one of the major differences between Orthodox and Catholic beliefs, because the Catholics do not consider the Theotokos to have been a "normal" or "regular" human being who achieved great holiness. They hold the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception, which means that God set aside Mary as a special vessel since before her birth, so she did not begin the same as us.

[Warped Woods]

"The answers" aren't something we're supposed to find out by ourselves?

No, they are. I am advocating finding answers outside established doctrines by yourself for you.

If religion (any of it) doesn't negate personal growth, it should follow that the answers coming from religion are a guide, not definitive answers.

It should. Too bad that's not the case with many people.

On a more personal level, whatever your personal ideas evolved over time, I hope you managed to get more friends even after breaking out from the ones you made during your happiest time. It would be a sad conclusion otherwise, or possibly, a bad answer.

My relationships have been shoddy due to me moving a lot and being to different places and meeting hundreds of people in total. Some people whom I've liked I've most likely long since forgotten or stopped caring about enough to visit.

(I'm not meaning it as "bad cause you left your original religion", but cause, at that time, you let your rage influence negatively your relationships)

I know what you meant. I feel that the damage is irreparable, even though it isn't and it's most likely been long since forgotten. I just can't return.

[Conscentia]

I have an old link to a copy of the Book of Enoch in English laying around. However, it isn't as impressive as you'd think. In fact, a fifth of the book is dedicated to a very, very intricate description of... a calendar, of all things. Albeit, it is a very accurate calendar, but a calendar nonetheless.

Thank you! I didn't know it was available in English. I'll take a look at it.

If you're interested in Ethiopian Orthodox scripture, there's a translation of Jubilees on that same site.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/jub/index.htm

[Tarsonis Survivors]

I was 15 when it happened, but basically, around that time, I developed coprolalia (as a side note, I have tourettes), which is the involuntary use of obscene language. It became pretty bad, and the congregation made several complaints in regards to it, and eventually the priest sat me down and said I was making others uncomfortable and they'd prefer it if I no longer attended - but offered to bring the Eucharist to my house after Mass every Sunday.

I went to my local Anglican Church and no one was bothered by it, instead, they welcomed me and embraced me for who I am. Their parish nurse worked with me in relaxation techniques to help my tics, and techniques on how to suppress my tics for longer (tics are involuntary, but can be suppressed for a short period of time). My coprolalia is almost non-existent now (tics also come and go), but I have never considered going back to the Catholic Church. I was made to feel like I should be ashamed about myself for something I can't control, like I wasn't meant to be a part of society when there is really nothing wrong with me at all.

I am very very sorry to hear about what happened at the Catholic parish. I would still strongly recommend that you consider returning to the Catholic Church at some point in the future - although I am not Catholic myself and I criticized the Catholic Church just a few hours ago, I greatly favour Catholicism over Anglicanism, for theological and ecclesiological reasons - but I understand why you have no desire to go back.

All of us Christians, but especially those who are ordained or considering ordination, need to always bear in mind the effect that our words and deeds will have upon other people's spiritual journeys. I see far too many people having been driven away from the Church through a lack of love on the part of the priest or the congregation.

And here we see Cont upset over literally nothing. There are dozens of Saints shared between the Orthodox and Catholic Churches. No point in getting over a tizzy about it.

Actually it's hundreds, if not thousands, of saints that we have in common. I got upset over (what I perceived as) Bari's patronizing language (e.g. "your schism"), not the actual content of what he was saying.

...and then I overdid it and got even more patronizing in my response. I apologize.

However, I stand by the content of what I said, even though I should have phrased it differently. And I'll still defend Catholicism in a debate between Catholicism and any non-Orthodox Christian perspective, of course.

and this is what my comment about arguing over pride was bout. I mean, are you saying the Orthodox don't have an equally patronizing view of Catholicism? From the orthodox perspective was it not "our schism"?
While we have doctrinal differences the biggest wedge between the Orthodox and Catholic Churches is Hubris, on both sides.

[Czechanada]

I want to go on a quest to find the church God has for me, but I am also afraid.
I have done this before and always find myself returning to the denomination I grew up, not out of fear of condemnation, but because I am not satisfied with any of the other choices.

I am Protestant, and questioning Protestantism, yet I also could not be Catholic or Orthodox.

I want to give all groups an equal say, including Mormons and JWs in case they could be right, but it is very likely that such groups are not Christians and that I am codemning myself. I am also easily swayed.

Why not consider other Abrahamic religions, like Bahai?

[Czechanada]

Lemme tell you a story about how I was immersed in Christianity. It's 2010 in a country with a rather moderate Christian populace. At the time even conservatives here could turn the other way and say "you know what, let them marry" or "if she needs it, then give her an abortion". Most of them are even for humanitarian immigration. We have a state church, which is separate from the state in all but the funds it receives from the state. I'm also at my confirmation camp.

It was one of the happiest times of my life, seeing how I've been bullied from secondary school to junior high. I got friends from all around the country, from the capital to the smallest towns up north. They had different interests: some had chosen to study the Bible or become a missionary alongside their earthly hobbies, such as anime, music, magic tricks and sports. I maintained good friendships with them over the years afterward, when I participated in other camps and events, such as Christian music festivals. All was well.

However, that wasn't meant to last. Once the discussion went into politics, the liberal me at the time was shocked at a lot of their authoritarian values regarding gay marriage, lgbt rights, abortion, euthanasia and drug use. The camps themselves were arranged by a neo-pietist organization, which was very spiritual and very strict with morals and politics. Of course I tried to ignore that to keep my friendships intact. However, the more I dove into politics, the more I noticed the outright regressive views around me. Blocking them off wasn't working and soon I came to these camps only to be social, without paying attention to their message. Eventually I told my friend I had become an atheist a year after I had broken myself away from the church I was put in through my baptism.

Major influences to me becoming an atheist were primarily YouTubers The Amazing Atheist and MrRepzion. I had watched a lot of their videos and they informed me a lot of not only religion, but science and social issues in general. I was introduced to ranters on YouTube through them. I used to debate my Christian friends, of course, but looking back it was a wasted effort. Once reality is a matter of taste, it's better to just stop arguing. After all, you can't argue taste.

Not only did I become an atheist, but a vehement anti-Christian even going so far as to telling all Christians to "go back to Israel from whence they came with their Jew faith" and advocating church burnings. I told the same thing to Muslims and used both religions' bloody history of imperialism and mass murder and their doctrines as a basis for my rage. The rage led me to cut ties to most of my Christian friends and was a major factor to me leaving Facebook and not going back.

Here I am now: an egoist anarchist who is largely indifferent about religions themselves, but wastes no time pointing out why they're wrong. At least I stopped being utterly mad. Nowadays me being for or against Christians is largely dependent on my mood: on a rainy day I'll try hard not to, but I'll probably still end up hating them for being Christian. At least this forum has shown there to be a massive amount of left-wing Christians, which is a fresh change for me.

If I happen to go against you with bare teeth and claws, I'm probably just having a bad day and not really being a christophobe anymore. To me, Christianity is just like any idea: some of its adherents are stupid loudmouths spewing idiocy with the smarter ones facepalming at the amount of fail. It's the same with Christianity as it is with Islam, Hinduism, communism, feminism or any other idea.

Moral-wise, truth-wise and reality-wise I don't think Christianity provides us with good answers. Its hypotheses are holey and its morals are, if not backwards, found in most other religions. I think Christianity had its time in the spotlight, but all fun is bound to come to an end some time. I don't like Christianity, but I've had my beefs with numerous other ideas and still do. No reason to blindly hate them anymore. In Varg Vikernes' words: "Yes, but I hate no one. Hatred is irrational. I consider myself a rational person."

Good for you!

Christianity is an obsolete system of determining morality and ethics. Like other ideologies, it may contain some potentially beneficial ideas, but they must be put to the test through reason, criticism, and science.

[Lost Memories]

"The answers" aren't something we're supposed to find out by ourselves?

No, they are. I am advocating finding answers outside established doctrines by yourself for you.

Getting to a result or conclusion with your own forces and no preset route, or by not copying others previous results, is very enjoyable, one of the few times I was able to experience that was when I was studying math in school(early school), while doing exercises it happened few times to reach a conclusion which would be explained in class a few days later.

But for most things(both material, philosophical or moral) having to rediscover everything from the start on your own may be too much of a hassle I think.
It is very possible, but there is so much a person can discover on their own, with no previous knowledge, during a whole life; by starting everytime from scratches, or from the starting point, the area explorable is limited by your own running speed. (hope you've not lost me)
Established doctrines, in that sense, can let you see a bit past what you would normally see by moving only on your own, regardless of actively contributing to the development of a doctrine(by being part of it) or not, it's still an interesting reference for personal growth.
If you noticed, I'm implying the guide which religion can offer are the answers other gave before us.

(I'm not meaning it as "bad cause you left your original religion", but cause, at that time, you let your rage influence negatively your relationships)

I know what you meant. I feel that the damage is irreparable, even though it isn't and it's most likely been long since forgotten. I just can't return.

Well, life moves on, right?

Christianity is an obsolete system of determining morality and ethics. Like other ideologies, it may contain some potentially good ideas, but they must be put to the test through reason, criticism, and science.

No place for feelings? Or are feelings just "something for the weak and gullible ones" ?

I'm not being totally serious, just noticing how the means presented for testing an ideology seems to be swayed over the rational side.
Humans are not purely rational beings afterall, so an ideology meant to affect human life should at least fit on most of the sides which compose an human.

[Nordengrund]

Lemme tell you a story about how I was immersed in Christianity. It's 2010 in a country with a rather moderate Christian populace. At the time even conservatives here could turn the other way and say "you know what, let them marry" or "if she needs it, then give her an abortion". Most of them are even for humanitarian immigration. We have a state church, which is separate from the state in all but the funds it receives from the state. I'm also at my confirmation camp.

It was one of the happiest times of my life, seeing how I've been bullied from secondary school to junior high. I got friends from all around the country, from the capital to the smallest towns up north. They had different interests: some had chosen to study the Bible or become a missionary alongside their earthly hobbies, such as anime, music, magic tricks and sports. I maintained good friendships with them over the years afterward, when I participated in other camps and events, such as Christian music festivals. All was well.

However, that wasn't meant to last. Once the discussion went into politics, the liberal me at the time was shocked at a lot of their authoritarian values regarding gay marriage, lgbt rights, abortion, euthanasia and drug use. The camps themselves were arranged by a neo-pietist organization, which was very spiritual and very strict with morals and politics. Of course I tried to ignore that to keep my friendships intact. However, the more I dove into politics, the more I noticed the outright regressive views around me. Blocking them off wasn't working and soon I came to these camps only to be social, without paying attention to their message. Eventually I told my friend I had become an atheist a year after I had broken myself away from the church I was put in through my baptism.

Major influences to me becoming an atheist were primarily YouTubers The Amazing Atheist and MrRepzion. I had watched a lot of their videos and they informed me a lot of not only religion, but science and social issues in general. I was introduced to ranters on YouTube through them. I used to debate my Christian friends, of course, but looking back it was a wasted effort. Once reality is a matter of taste, it's better to just stop arguing. After all, you can't argue taste.

Not only did I become an atheist, but a vehement anti-Christian even going so far as to telling all Christians to "go back to Israel from whence they came with their Jew faith" and advocating church burnings. I told the same thing to Muslims and used both religions' bloody history of imperialism and mass murder and their doctrines as a basis for my rage. The rage led me to cut ties to most of my Christian friends and was a major factor to me leaving Facebook and not going back.

Here I am now: an egoist anarchist who is largely indifferent about religions themselves, but wastes no time pointing out why they're wrong. At least I stopped being utterly mad. Nowadays me being for or against Christians is largely dependent on my mood: on a rainy day I'll try hard not to, but I'll probably still end up hating them for being Christian. At least this forum has shown there to be a massive amount of left-wing Christians, which is a fresh change for me.

If I happen to go against you with bare teeth and claws, I'm probably just having a bad day and not really being a christophobe anymore. To me, Christianity is just like any idea: some of its adherents are stupid loudmouths spewing idiocy with the smarter ones facepalming at the amount of fail. It's the same with Christianity as it is with Islam, Hinduism, communism, feminism or any other idea.

Moral-wise, truth-wise and reality-wise I don't think Christianity provides us with good answers. Its hypotheses are holey and its morals are, if not backwards, found in most other religions. I think Christianity had its time in the spotlight, but all fun is bound to come to an end some time. I don't like Christianity, but I've had my beefs with numerous other ideas and still do. No reason to blindly hate them anymore. In Varg Vikernes' words: "Yes, but I hate no one. Hatred is irrational. I consider myself a rational person."

Good for you!

Christianity is an obsolete system of determining morality and ethics. Like other ideologies, it may contain some potentially beneficial ideas, but they must be put to the test through reason, criticism, and science.

There are stern warnings in the Bible about apostasy.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

Lemme tell you a story about how I was immersed in Christianity. It's 2010 in a country with a rather moderate Christian populace. At the time even conservatives here could turn the other way and say "you know what, let them marry" or "if she needs it, then give her an abortion". Most of them are even for humanitarian immigration. We have a state church, which is separate from the state in all but the funds it receives from the state. I'm also at my confirmation camp.

It was one of the happiest times of my life, seeing how I've been bullied from secondary school to junior high. I got friends from all around the country, from the capital to the smallest towns up north. They had different interests: some had chosen to study the Bible or become a missionary alongside their earthly hobbies, such as anime, music, magic tricks and sports. I maintained good friendships with them over the years afterward, when I participated in other camps and events, such as Christian music festivals. All was well.

However, that wasn't meant to last. Once the discussion went into politics, the liberal me at the time was shocked at a lot of their authoritarian values regarding gay marriage, lgbt rights, abortion, euthanasia and drug use. The camps themselves were arranged by a neo-pietist organization, which was very spiritual and very strict with morals and politics. Of course I tried to ignore that to keep my friendships intact. However, the more I dove into politics, the more I noticed the outright regressive views around me. Blocking them off wasn't working and soon I came to these camps only to be social, without paying attention to their message. Eventually I told my friend I had become an atheist a year after I had broken myself away from the church I was put in through my baptism.

Major influences to me becoming an atheist were primarily YouTubers The Amazing Atheist and MrRepzion. I had watched a lot of their videos and they informed me a lot of not only religion, but science and social issues in general. I was introduced to ranters on YouTube through them. I used to debate my Christian friends, of course, but looking back it was a wasted effort. Once reality is a matter of taste, it's better to just stop arguing. After all, you can't argue taste.

Not only did I become an atheist, but a vehement anti-Christian even going so far as to telling all Christians to "go back to Israel from whence they came with their Jew faith" and advocating church burnings. I told the same thing to Muslims and used both religions' bloody history of imperialism and mass murder and their doctrines as a basis for my rage. The rage led me to cut ties to most of my Christian friends and was a major factor to me leaving Facebook and not going back.

Here I am now: an egoist anarchist who is largely indifferent about religions themselves, but wastes no time pointing out why they're wrong. At least I stopped being utterly mad. Nowadays me being for or against Christians is largely dependent on my mood: on a rainy day I'll try hard not to, but I'll probably still end up hating them for being Christian. At least this forum has shown there to be a massive amount of left-wing Christians, which is a fresh change for me.

If I happen to go against you with bare teeth and claws, I'm probably just having a bad day and not really being a christophobe anymore. To me, Christianity is just like any idea: some of its adherents are stupid loudmouths spewing idiocy with the smarter ones facepalming at the amount of fail. It's the same with Christianity as it is with Islam, Hinduism, communism, feminism or any other idea.

Moral-wise, truth-wise and reality-wise I don't think Christianity provides us with good answers. Its hypotheses are holey and its morals are, if not backwards, found in most other religions. I think Christianity had its time in the spotlight, but all fun is bound to come to an end some time. I don't like Christianity, but I've had my beefs with numerous other ideas and still do. No reason to blindly hate them anymore. In Varg Vikernes' words: "Yes, but I hate no one. Hatred is irrational. I consider myself a rational person."

Good for you!

Christianity is an obsolete system of determining morality and ethics. Like other ideologies, it may contain some potentially beneficial ideas, but they must be put to the test through reason, criticism, and science.

Except science literally tells us nothing about morality. From a scientific standpoint morality is irrelevant, except perhaps described as a means of survival.

[The Hobbesian Metaphysician]

You know George Takei is such an ignorant shitposter when it comes to religion.

[Salus Maior]

You know George Takei is such an ignorant shitposter when it comes to religion.

Most famous atheists are.

[Renewed Imperial Germany]

You know George Takei is such an ignorant shitposter when it comes to religion.

Wait wut? Wheres George Takei?

[The Hobbesian Metaphysician]

You know George Takei is such an ignorant shitposter when it comes to religion.

Most famous atheists are.

Seriously this guy practically is edgy incarnate on the internet. They do nothing, but post trashy internet comics against religion, and trivialize the suffering of others.

[Uxupox]

Good for you!

Christianity is an obsolete system of determining morality and ethics. Like other ideologies, it may contain some potentially beneficial ideas, but they must be put to the test through reason, criticism, and science.

Except science literally tells us nothing about morality. From a scientific standpoint morality is irrelevant, except perhaps described as a means of survival.

Morality is irrelevant in nature. What we denominate as cruel is seeing being demonstrated by mother nature.

[Sanctissima]

You know George Takei is such an ignorant shitposter when it comes to religion.

Most famous atheists are.

Eh, not necessarily. It's just the ones who make their careers or hobbies off of their atheism that are such complete and utter asses. With the exception of Daniel Dennett (although even he says stupid ignorant shit every now and then), most career and hobby atheists are some really hateful people, and aren't even half as knowledgeable as they try to make themselves out to be.

Most famous atheists though, are quite respectable and likable people. Or at least, they don't constantly talk shit about religion. These are your Einsteins, your Asimovs, your Turings and other people who actually contributed to their fields of study and to the world. Most of them are not washed-up scientists like Dawkins who know little about much of anything.

[Luminesa]

Lemme tell you a story about how I was immersed in Christianity. It's 2010 in a country with a rather moderate Christian populace. At the time even conservatives here could turn the other way and say "you know what, let them marry" or "if she needs it, then give her an abortion". Most of them are even for humanitarian immigration. We have a state church, which is separate from the state in all but the funds it receives from the state. I'm also at my confirmation camp.

It was one of the happiest times of my life, seeing how I've been bullied from secondary school to junior high. I got friends from all around the country, from the capital to the smallest towns up north. They had different interests: some had chosen to study the Bible or become a missionary alongside their earthly hobbies, such as anime, music, magic tricks and sports. I maintained good friendships with them over the years afterward, when I participated in other camps and events, such as Christian music festivals. All was well.

However, that wasn't meant to last. Once the discussion went into politics, the liberal me at the time was shocked at a lot of their authoritarian values regarding gay marriage, lgbt rights, abortion, euthanasia and drug use. The camps themselves were arranged by a neo-pietist organization, which was very spiritual and very strict with morals and politics. Of course I tried to ignore that to keep my friendships intact. However, the more I dove into politics, the more I noticed the outright regressive views around me. Blocking them off wasn't working and soon I came to these camps only to be social, without paying attention to their message. Eventually I told my friend I had become an atheist a year after I had broken myself away from the church I was put in through my baptism.

Major influences to me becoming an atheist were primarily YouTubers The Amazing Atheist and MrRepzion. I had watched a lot of their videos and they informed me a lot of not only religion, but science and social issues in general. I was introduced to ranters on YouTube through them. I used to debate my Christian friends, of course, but looking back it was a wasted effort. Once reality is a matter of taste, it's better to just stop arguing. After all, you can't argue taste.

Not only did I become an atheist, but a vehement anti-Christian even going so far as to telling all Christians to "go back to Israel from whence they came with their Jew faith" and advocating church burnings. I told the same thing to Muslims and used both religions' bloody history of imperialism and mass murder and their doctrines as a basis for my rage. The rage led me to cut ties to most of my Christian friends and was a major factor to me leaving Facebook and not going back.

Here I am now: an egoist anarchist who is largely indifferent about religions themselves, but wastes no time pointing out why they're wrong. At least I stopped being utterly mad. Nowadays me being for or against Christians is largely dependent on my mood: on a rainy day I'll try hard not to, but I'll probably still end up hating them for being Christian. At least this forum has shown there to be a massive amount of left-wing Christians, which is a fresh change for me.

If I happen to go against you with bare teeth and claws, I'm probably just having a bad day and not really being a christophobe anymore. To me, Christianity is just like any idea: some of its adherents are stupid loudmouths spewing idiocy with the smarter ones facepalming at the amount of fail. It's the same with Christianity as it is with Islam, Hinduism, communism, feminism or any other idea.

Moral-wise, truth-wise and reality-wise I don't think Christianity provides us with good answers. Its hypotheses are holey and its morals are, if not backwards, found in most other religions. I think Christianity had its time in the spotlight, but all fun is bound to come to an end some time. I don't like Christianity, but I've had my beefs with numerous other ideas and still do. No reason to blindly hate them anymore. In Varg Vikernes' words: "Yes, but I hate no one. Hatred is irrational. I consider myself a rational person."

I feel like TheAmazingAtheist is not a good source of learning about Christianity. He attacks and curses-out everyone, and it's rather painful to watch. If you want a good example of a Christian who is both very thoughtful and who explains his views very well, look up Bishop Barron's vids. I recommend them to everyone, mainly because he's such a respectful, gentle, and intelligent individual.

As for Christianity fading anytime soon:

Voltaire said that Christianity would be dead eventually. Twenty years after he said that, St. Jean Vianney became a priest.

Napoleon said the same thing. Still didn't happen.

John Lennon said Christianity would shrivel and fade away. Exactly ten years after he said that, John Paul II became pope. And changed the world.

And this has been for 2,000 years. Christianity's structure, morals, and scriptures have permeated world culture in ways that no other religion or belief system has. It has 2 billion followers. Millions of people are present at every World Youth Day. Religious orders like the Dominicans of Mary are having trouble keeping up with the number of sisters entering their order. So Christianity is going strong, and it will always go strong. It has been shown over and over again throughout history that when Christianity is tested, and adherents are martyred, that the religion only grows and thrives.

[Luminesa]

Most famous atheists are.

Eh, not necessarily. It's just the ones who make their careers or hobbies off of their atheism that are such complete and utter asses. With the exception of Daniel Dennett (although even he says stupid ignorant shit every now and then), most career and hobby atheists are some really hateful people, and aren't even half as knowledgeable as they try to make themselves out to be.

Most famous atheists though, are quite respectable and likable people. Or at least, they don't constantly talk shit about religion. These are your Einsteins, your Asimovs, your Turings and other people who actually contributed to their fields of study and to the world. Most of them are not washed-up scientists like Dawkins who know little about much of anything.

Einstein! Einstein is mah friend.

Or I would like to imagine we'd probably be friends. Or I would like to be friends with him.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

Lemme tell you a story about how I was immersed in Christianity. It's 2010 in a country with a rather moderate Christian populace. At the time even conservatives here could turn the other way and say "you know what, let them marry" or "if she needs it, then give her an abortion". Most of them are even for humanitarian immigration. We have a state church, which is separate from the state in all but the funds it receives from the state. I'm also at my confirmation camp.

It was one of the happiest times of my life, seeing how I've been bullied from secondary school to junior high. I got friends from all around the country, from the capital to the smallest towns up north. They had different interests: some had chosen to study the Bible or become a missionary alongside their earthly hobbies, such as anime, music, magic tricks and sports. I maintained good friendships with them over the years afterward, when I participated in other camps and events, such as Christian music festivals. All was well.

However, that wasn't meant to last. Once the discussion went into politics, the liberal me at the time was shocked at a lot of their authoritarian values regarding gay marriage, lgbt rights, abortion, euthanasia and drug use. The camps themselves were arranged by a neo-pietist organization, which was very spiritual and very strict with morals and politics. Of course I tried to ignore that to keep my friendships intact. However, the more I dove into politics, the more I noticed the outright regressive views around me. Blocking them off wasn't working and soon I came to these camps only to be social, without paying attention to their message. Eventually I told my friend I had become an atheist a year after I had broken myself away from the church I was put in through my baptism.

Major influences to me becoming an atheist were primarily YouTubers The Amazing Atheist and MrRepzion. I had watched a lot of their videos and they informed me a lot of not only religion, but science and social issues in general. I was introduced to ranters on YouTube through them. I used to debate my Christian friends, of course, but looking back it was a wasted effort. Once reality is a matter of taste, it's better to just stop arguing. After all, you can't argue taste.

Not only did I become an atheist, but a vehement anti-Christian even going so far as to telling all Christians to "go back to Israel from whence they came with their Jew faith" and advocating church burnings. I told the same thing to Muslims and used both religions' bloody history of imperialism and mass murder and their doctrines as a basis for my rage. The rage led me to cut ties to most of my Christian friends and was a major factor to me leaving Facebook and not going back.

Here I am now: an egoist anarchist who is largely indifferent about religions themselves, but wastes no time pointing out why they're wrong. At least I stopped being utterly mad. Nowadays me being for or against Christians is largely dependent on my mood: on a rainy day I'll try hard not to, but I'll probably still end up hating them for being Christian. At least this forum has shown there to be a massive amount of left-wing Christians, which is a fresh change for me.

If I happen to go against you with bare teeth and claws, I'm probably just having a bad day and not really being a christophobe anymore. To me, Christianity is just like any idea: some of its adherents are stupid loudmouths spewing idiocy with the smarter ones facepalming at the amount of fail. It's the same with Christianity as it is with Islam, Hinduism, communism, feminism or any other idea.

Moral-wise, truth-wise and reality-wise I don't think Christianity provides us with good answers. Its hypotheses are holey and its morals are, if not backwards, found in most other religions. I think Christianity had its time in the spotlight, but all fun is bound to come to an end some time. I don't like Christianity, but I've had my beefs with numerous other ideas and still do. No reason to blindly hate them anymore. In Varg Vikernes' words: "Yes, but I hate no one. Hatred is irrational. I consider myself a rational person."

I feel like TheAmazingAtheist is not a good source of learning about Christianity. He attacks and curses-out everyone, and it's rather painful to watch. If you want a good example of a Christian who is both very thoughtful and who explains his views very well, look up Bishop Barron's vids. I recommend them to everyone, mainly because he's such a respectful, gentle, and intelligent individual.

As for Christianity fading anytime soon:

Voltaire said that Christianity would be dead eventually. Twenty years after he said that, St. Jean Vianney became a priest.

Napoleon said the same thing. Still didn't happen.

John Lennon said Christianity would shrivel and fade away. Exactly ten years after he said that, John Paul II became pope. And changed the world.

And this has been for 2,000 years. Christianity's structure, morals, and scriptures have permeated world culture in ways that no other religion or belief system has. It has 2 billion followers. Millions of people are present at every World Youth Day. Religious orders like the Dominicans of Mary are having trouble keeping up with the number of sisters entering their order. So Christianity is going strong, and it will always go strong. It has been shown over and over again throughout history that when Christianity is tested, and adherents are martyred, that the religion only grows and thrives.

Western* Culture

[Sanctissima]

Eh, not necessarily. It's just the ones who make their careers or hobbies off of their atheism that are such complete and utter asses. With the exception of Daniel Dennett (although even he says stupid ignorant shit every now and then), most career and hobby atheists are some really hateful people, and aren't even half as knowledgeable as they try to make themselves out to be.

Most famous atheists though, are quite respectable and likable people. Or at least, they don't constantly talk shit about religion. These are your Einsteins, your Asimovs, your Turings and other people who actually contributed to their fields of study and to the world. Most of them are not washed-up scientists like Dawkins who know little about much of anything.

Einstein! Einstein is mah friend.

Or I would like to imagine we'd probably be friends. Or I would like to be friends with him.

Heh, I imagine you would have gotten along great with him.

He was the kind of guy who was everyone's friend. Well, mostly everyone.

[Luminesa]

I feel like TheAmazingAtheist is not a good source of learning about Christianity. He attacks and curses-out everyone, and it's rather painful to watch. If you want a good example of a Christian who is both very thoughtful and who explains his views very well, look up Bishop Barron's vids. I recommend them to everyone, mainly because he's such a respectful, gentle, and intelligent individual.

As for Christianity fading anytime soon:

Voltaire said that Christianity would be dead eventually. Twenty years after he said that, St. Jean Vianney became a priest.

Napoleon said the same thing. Still didn't happen.

John Lennon said Christianity would shrivel and fade away. Exactly ten years after he said that, John Paul II became pope. And changed the world.

And this has been for 2,000 years. Christianity's structure, morals, and scriptures have permeated world culture in ways that no other religion or belief system has. It has 2 billion followers. Millions of people are present at every World Youth Day. Religious orders like the Dominicans of Mary are having trouble keeping up with the number of sisters entering their order. So Christianity is going strong, and it will always go strong. It has been shown over and over again throughout history that when Christianity is tested, and adherents are martyred, that the religion only grows and thrives.

Western* Culture

Even in the East, a little bit. Like India!

INDIA'S HAD CHRISTIANS SINCE THE FIRST CENTURY!

[Luminesa]

Einstein! Einstein is mah friend.

Or I would like to imagine we'd probably be friends. Or I would like to be friends with him.

Heh, I imagine you would have gotten along great with him.

He was the kind of guy who was everyone's friend. Well, mostly everyone.

YOSH! *Fist-pump.*