Christian Discussion Thread VII: The Christ Awakens.

[Muinordgrad]

You know what I wish there was a movie of? Saint Francis. Even though I am *not* Catholic by any stretch, I have deep respect for him and what he did, especially since I want to do something in the ministry. He seems like a good example to follow: Be sacrificially giving, and God will give back to you.

[Cill Airne]

But whether he can offer his soul to the Draedric Princes is the real question.

Probably not. Most of them seem to be jerks.

I'm now envisioning St. Athanasius the Dovahkiin, Saviour of Skyrim and bringer of Christ to the Talos-Free.

[Luminesa]

Wouldn't God being omniscient mean that he doesn't need to have a tap on the arm? He knows what we want, He knows what anybody prays for, a saint or the worst sinner can pray.

Following that logic, why do you pray at all in the first place? After all, since God already knows what you want, why bother to say it out loud in words?

You know what? We're going with it. Athanasius climbs up a mountain after being exiled and thrown off a mountainside, and when he gets back up he finds Excalibur and kills a demon-dragon that is planning to take over the world. He kills it and makes armor out of the dragon!

Ah. I see you are already handling historical accuracy like a real Hollywood screenwriter. You've got a natural talent for this!

You should work with Michael Bay.

I'll do it.
It's been a while since I acted.

Me!

Alright. There is only one way to settle this. We must have... a beard-off! First one to grow a beard like St. Athanasius wins.

*Feels chin.*

Welp, I know I'm disqualified.

And for the record, I'm working with whoever made Harry Potter, not Michael Bay. We'd need someone to drive in with Optimus Prime, but otherwise-

*Optimus Prime truck crashes through fourth-wall into thread. St. Nicholas steps out, wearing sunglasses and fully-vested. Mitar included.*

St. Nicholas: Sup?

...Well, then, that settles everything.

[Jumalariik]

You know what I wish there was a movie of? Saint Francis. Even though I am *not* Catholic by any stretch, I have deep respect for him and what he did, especially since I want to do something in the ministry. He seems like a good example to follow: Be sacrificially giving, and God will give back to you.

They made a great one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBJSBNj0Mnk

[The Alexanderians]

Wouldn't God being omniscient mean that he doesn't need to have a tap on the arm? He knows what we want, He knows what anybody prays for, a saint or the worst sinner can pray.

Following that logic, why do you pray at all in the first place? After all, since God already knows what you want, why bother to say it out loud in words?

You know what? We're going with it. Athanasius climbs up a mountain after being exiled and thrown off a mountainside, and when he gets back up he finds Excalibur and kills a demon-dragon that is planning to take over the world. He kills it and makes armor out of the dragon!

Ah. I see you are already handling historical accuracy like a real Hollywood screenwriter. You've got a natural talent for this!

You should work with Michael Bay.

I'll do it.
It's been a while since I acted.

Me!

Alright. There is only one way to settle this. We must have... a beard-off! First one to grow a beard like St. Athanasius wins.

then I'm out

[The Princes of the Universe]

Alright. There is only one way to settle this. We must have... a beard-off! First one to grow a beard like St. Athanasius wins.
(Image)

That's Mohammed Alim Khan, the last of Chingis Khan's descendants to rule.

Close enough?

[Muinordgrad]

You know what I wish there was a movie of? Saint Francis. Even though I am *not* Catholic by any stretch, I have deep respect for him and what he did, especially since I want to do something in the ministry. He seems like a good example to follow: Be sacrificially giving, and God will give back to you.

They made a great one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBJSBNj0Mnk

Interesting, I'll have to put that in my "watch sometime over the summer" pile.

*fantastic idea*

Now that would be a movie: Transformers, 1400's Edition.

[Luminesa]

They made a great one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBJSBNj0Mnk

Interesting, I'll have to put that in my "watch sometime over the summer" pile.

*fantastic idea*

Now that would be a movie: Transformers, 1400's Edition.

Transformers: The Middle Ages

What have we done.

[Bari]

I read a chapter or two 'Zealot: The Life and Times of Jesus of Nazareth' by Reza Aslan while in a Barnes & Noble bookstore and am honestly kind of shaken in my faith. Have any of you read it?

If I were you, I wouldn't go into any literature or take any information about the Christ from any heretic or unbeliever.

[Muinordgrad]

Interesting, I'll have to put that in my "watch sometime over the summer" pile.


Now that would be a movie: Transformers, 1400's Edition.

Transformers: The Middle Ages

What have we done.

Would it be Autocephalobots vs... *cannot think of pun*

[Muinordgrad]

I read a chapter or two 'Zealot: The Life and Times of Jesus of Nazareth' by Reza Aslan while in a Barnes & Noble bookstore and am honestly kind of shaken in my faith. Have any of you read it?

If I were you, I wouldn't go into any literature or take any information about the Christ from any heretic or unbeliever.

The funny thing is, I guarantee most of the arguments made in that book if they are Atheist have been around in some form since the times of Marx and Freud.


Think about it this way: Let's say there is a religion. It is still seen as strange, but is starting to gain momentum with some of the upper classes. It has insights on Science that no one has ever thought of before. It markets itself as a "true replacement" of Christianity, and with the sheer amount of support it seems to be getting, you think to yourself, "maybe it is right?"

What religion am I talking about? Islam, and yet Christianity survived that. It seems like we are entering another time period like this. Just remember: "History merely repeats itself. It has all been done before. Nothing under the sun is truly new." Ecc 1:9. And if you are still really stirred about it, pray, and God will reveal Himself to you in a way that is undeniable.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

I read a chapter or two 'Zealot: The Life and Times of Jesus of Nazareth' by Reza Aslan while in a Barnes & Noble bookstore and am honestly kind of shaken in my faith. Have any of you read it?

If I were you, I wouldn't go into any literature or take any information about the Christ from any heretic or unbeliever.

Unless you're a scholar like me, and that's pretty much all you do.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Me!

Well, now we have to vote...actually...

Wait! You and Dio can BOTH be Athanasius!

Dio can be the stunt-double!

Which means he gets to do all the amazing stunts, like mountain-climbing and fighting dragons and...

Oh wait...wait...

You know what? We're going with it. Athanasius climbs up a mountain after being exiled and thrown off a mountainside, and when he gets back up he finds Excalibur and kills a demon-dragon that is planning to take over the world. He kills it and makes armor out of the dragon!

(LUMI!)

(Whut.)

(This is not Skyrim.)

(It is now. FUS ROH DAH, BABY!!!)

I come here and I find this...

WHAT ARE YOU DOING?! XD!

[Salus Maior]

I read a chapter or two 'Zealot: The Life and Times of Jesus of Nazareth' by Reza Aslan while in a Barnes & Noble bookstore and am honestly kind of shaken in my faith. Have any of you read it?

What about it bothered you?

[Athartha]

Me!

Well, now we have to vote...actually...

Wait! You and Dio can BOTH be Athanasius!

Dio can be the stunt-double!

Which means he gets to do all the amazing stunts, like mountain-climbing and fighting dragons and...

Oh wait...wait...

You know what? We're going with it. Athanasius climbs up a mountain after being exiled and thrown off a mountainside, and when he gets back up he finds Excalibur and kills a demon-dragon that is planning to take over the world. He kills it and makes armor out of the dragon!

(LUMI!)

(Whut.)

(This is not Skyrim.)

(It is now. FUS ROH DAH, BABY!!!)

Now, as a Priest I am not saying anything but...


FO KRAH DIIN THE THALMOR!

But a movie about St. Athanasius would be nice, too.

[Bari]

If I were you, I wouldn't go into any literature or take any information about the Christ from any heretic or unbeliever.

The funny thing is, I guarantee most of the arguments made in that book if they are Atheist have been around in some form since the times of Marx and Freud.


Think about it this way: Let's say there is a religion. It is still seen as strange, but is starting to gain momentum with some of the upper classes. It has insights on Science that no one has ever thought of before. It markets itself as a "true replacement" of Christianity, and with the sheer amount of support it seems to be getting, you think to yourself, "maybe it is right?"

What religion am I talking about? Islam, and yet Christianity survived that. It seems like we are entering another time period like this. Just remember: "History merely repeats itself. It has all been done before. Nothing under the sun is truly new." Ecc 1:9. And if you are still really stirred about it, pray, and God will reveal Himself to you in a way that is undeniable.

The author isn't an atheist; he's a Muslim. What you say though still applies. Personally, I just consider Muslims to he Christian heretics, but that's controversial like my support for the Crusdaes or my stance against abortion or my support for traditional marriage or just about most of my Christian beliefs.

If I were you, I wouldn't go into any literature or take any information about the Christ from any heretic or unbeliever.

Unless you're a scholar like me, and that's pretty much all you do.

Even if the author is a scholar and that's all he does, I still wouldn't necessarily simply believe him or think he's onto something. I'd have to be convinced by a cogent argument.

[Salus Maior]

The author isn't an atheist; he's a Muslim. What you say though still applies. Personally, I just consider Muslims to he Christian heretics, but that's controversial like my support for the Crusdaes or my stance against abortion or my support for traditional marriage or just about most of my Christian beliefs.

Eh, I think Muslims are a bit too different from Christianity to really be a heresy, I'd say if you'd label them as anything, it'd be as infidels. The closest thing to them in Christianity would've been the Arians, and even then their beliefs would essentially be idolatry to Muslims.

And considering said book was written by a Muslim, I'd say that there'd be a bias there that ultimately illegitimizes it. That'd be like a book made to discredit Muhammad written by a Catholic.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

I read a chapter or two 'Zealot: The Life and Times of Jesus of Nazareth' by Reza Aslan while in a Barnes & Noble bookstore and am honestly kind of shaken in my faith. Have any of you read it?

If I were you, I wouldn't go into any literature or take any information about the Christ from any heretic or unbeliever.

Actually, if I were him I would try to learn more about my faith if my faith was shaken in such a way by a book.

The problem with someone's faith being shaken is not reading sources that paints Jesus negatively, it's not knowing enough about your own faith.

Which, I admit, is something I give mature Catholics and Orthodox their fair credit for.

[Luminesa]

Well, now we have to vote...actually...

Wait! You and Dio can BOTH be Athanasius!

Dio can be the stunt-double!

Which means he gets to do all the amazing stunts, like mountain-climbing and fighting dragons and...

Oh wait...wait...

You know what? We're going with it. Athanasius climbs up a mountain after being exiled and thrown off a mountainside, and when he gets back up he finds Excalibur and kills a demon-dragon that is planning to take over the world. He kills it and makes armor out of the dragon!

(LUMI!)

(Whut.)

(This is not Skyrim.)

(It is now. FUS ROH DAH, BABY!!!)

I come here and I find this...

WHAT ARE YOU DOING?! XD!

I was brainstorming a movie script for a movie about St. Athanasius...while eating Fruity Pebbles.

Apparently this is my brain on Fruity Pebbles. XD

[Luminesa]

Well, now we have to vote...actually...

Wait! You and Dio can BOTH be Athanasius!

Dio can be the stunt-double!

Which means he gets to do all the amazing stunts, like mountain-climbing and fighting dragons and...

Oh wait...wait...

You know what? We're going with it. Athanasius climbs up a mountain after being exiled and thrown off a mountainside, and when he gets back up he finds Excalibur and kills a demon-dragon that is planning to take over the world. He kills it and makes armor out of the dragon!

(LUMI!)

(Whut.)

(This is not Skyrim.)

(It is now. FUS ROH DAH, BABY!!!)

Now, as a Priest I am not saying anything but...


FO KRAH DIIN THE THALMOR!

But a movie about St. Athanasius would be nice, too.

Father has approved!

Hot dawg this is gonna be awesome! X3

[Muinordgrad]

The funny thing is, I guarantee most of the arguments made in that book if they are Atheist have been around in some form since the times of Marx and Freud.


Think about it this way: Let's say there is a religion. It is still seen as strange, but is starting to gain momentum with some of the upper classes. It has insights on Science that no one has ever thought of before. It markets itself as a "true replacement" of Christianity, and with the sheer amount of support it seems to be getting, you think to yourself, "maybe it is right?"

What religion am I talking about? Islam, and yet Christianity survived that. It seems like we are entering another time period like this. Just remember: "History merely repeats itself. It has all been done before. Nothing under the sun is truly new." Ecc 1:9. And if you are still really stirred about it, pray, and God will reveal Himself to you in a way that is undeniable.

The author isn't an atheist; he's a Muslim. What you say though still applies. Personally, I just consider Muslims to he Christian heretics, but that's controversial like my support for the Crusdaes or my stance against abortion or my support for traditional marriage or just about most of my Christian beliefs.

In that cace, I'd recommend a marvelous book called Seeking Allah, Finding Jesus, which really shows how mainstream Christianity is the truth when compared to Islam.

I feel like Islam is Christianity in the same way that Mormonism is Christianity: Sure, they have Jesus, but at the end of the day, there are so many things that *don't* add up and are added that it kills the original grace. Remember Revelation 22:19

[Jamzmania]

The author isn't an atheist; he's a Muslim. What you say though still applies. Personally, I just consider Muslims to he Christian heretics, but that's controversial like my support for the Crusdaes or my stance against abortion or my support for traditional marriage or just about most of my Christian beliefs.

Eh, I think Muslims are a bit too different from Christianity to really be a heresy, I'd say if you'd label them as anything, it'd be as infidels. The closest thing to them in Christianity would've been the Arians, and even then their beliefs would essentially be idolatry to Muslims.

And considering said book was written by a Muslim, I'd say that there'd be a bias there that ultimately illegitimizes it. That'd be like a book made to discredit Muhammad written by a Catholic.

I'm not sure that's entirely true. You'd have to take it on a case-by-case basis which takes into account the person's evidence and arguments.

[Salus Maior]

The author isn't an atheist; he's a Muslim. What you say though still applies. Personally, I just consider Muslims to he Christian heretics, but that's controversial like my support for the Crusdaes or my stance against abortion or my support for traditional marriage or just about most of my Christian beliefs.

In that cace, I'd recommend a marvelous book called Seeking Allah, Finding Jesus, which really shows how mainstream Christianity is the truth when compared to Islam.

I feel like Islam is Christianity in the same way that Mormonism is Christianity: Sure, they have Jesus, but at the end of the day, there are so many things that *don't* add up and are added that it kills the original grace. Remember Revelation 22:19

Eh, I wouldn't say that their Jesus is even the same person as the one written in the Gospels. I believe he's written very differently in order to be in line with Islam's "Jesus was just a prophet" policy from what I've heard.

I'm not sure that's entirely true. You'd have to take it on a case-by-case basis which takes into account the person's evidence and arguments.

Well, I haven't read the book myself. So I'm just assuming based on other things I've read.

[Bari]

The author isn't an atheist; he's a Muslim. What you say though still applies. Personally, I just consider Muslims to he Christian heretics, but that's controversial like my support for the Crusdaes or my stance against abortion or my support for traditional marriage or just about most of my Christian beliefs.

Eh, I think Muslims are a bit too different from Christianity to really be a heresy, I'd say if you'd label them as anything, it'd be as infidels. The closest thing to them in Christianity would've been the Arians, and even then their beliefs would essentially be idolatry to Muslims.

And considering said book was written by a Muslim, I'd say that there'd be a bias there that ultimately illegitimizes it. That'd be like a book made to discredit Muhammad written by a Catholic.

Medieval Christians considered Islam to just be a Christian heresy, and I find their reasoning to be convincing enough.

"Whosoever does not embrace the Catholic Christian faith is lost, like your false prophet Muhammad." - St. Peter Mavimenus, martyr from Gaza. Response reported in Martyriologum Romanum when he was asked to convert to Islam by a group of Muslims.

"There is also the superstition of the Ishmaelites [Muslims] which to this day prevails and keeps people in error, being a forerunner of the Antichrist. [...] From that time to the present a false prophet named Mohammed has appeared in their midst. This man, after having chanced upon the Old and New Testaments and likewise, it seems, having conversed with an Arian monk, devised his own heresy. Then, having insinuated himself into the good graces of the people by a show of seeming piety, he gave out that a certain book had been sent down to him from Heaven. He had set down some ridiculous compositions in this book of his and he gave it to them as an object of veneration." - St. John Damascene, Syrian Arab Catholic monk and scholar. Quoted from his book On Heresies under the section "On the Heresy of the Ishmaelites" (in The Fathers of the Church. Vol. 37. Translated by the Catholic University of America. CUA Press. 1958. pp. 153-160.)

"We profess Christ to be truly God and your prophet to be a precursor of the Antichrist and other profane doctrine." - Ss. Habenitus, Jeremiah, Peter, Sabinian, Walabonsus and Wistremundus, martyrs of Cordoba, Spain. Reported in Memoriale Sanctorum in response to Spanish Umayyad Caliph 'And Ar-Rahman II's ministers that they convert to Islam on pain of death.

"Any cult which denies the divinity of Christ, does not profess the existence of the Holy Trinity, refutes baptism, defames Christians and derogates the priesthood, we consider to be damned." - Ss. Aurelius, Felix, George, Liliosa and Natalia, martyrs of Cordoba, Spain. Reported in Memoriale Sanctorum in response to Spanish Umayyad Caliph 'And Ar-Rahman II's ministers that they convert to Islam on pain of death.

"On the other hand, those who founded sects committed to erroneous doctrines proceeded in a way that is opposite to this, the point is clear in the case of Muhammad. He seduced the people by promises of carnal pleasure to which the concupiscence of the flesh goads us. His teaching also contained precepts that were in conformity with his promises, and he gave free rein to carnal pleasure. In all this, as is not unexpected, he was obeyed by carnal men. As for proofs of the truth of his doctrine, he brought forward only such as could be grasped by the natural ability of anyone with a very modest wisdom. Indeed, the truths that he taught he mingled with many fables and with doctrines of the greatest falsity. He did not bring forth any signs produced in a supernatural way, which alone fittingly gives witness to divine inspiration; for a visible action that can be only divine reveals an invisibly inspired teacher of truth. On the contrary, Muhammad said that he was sent in the power of his arms — which are signs not lacking even to robbers and tyrants." - St. Thomas Aquinas, theologian and Doctor of the Church. Quoted from his De Rationibus Fidei Contra Saracenos, Graecos et Armenos and translated from Fr. Damian Fehlner's Aquinas on Reasons for the Faith: Against the Muslims, Greeks and Armenians. (Franciscans of the Immaculate. 2002.)

"As we have seen, Muhammed had neither supernatural miracles nor natural motives of reason to persuade those of his sect. As he lacked in everything, he took to bestial and barbaric means, which is the force of arms. Thus he introduced and promulgated his message with robberies, murders and blood shedding, destroying those who did not want to receive it, and with the same means his ministers conserve this today, until God placates his anger and destroys this pestilence from the earth.

"[Muhammad] can also be figured for the dragon in the same Apocalypse which says that the dragon swept up a third of the stars and hurled down a third to Earth. Although this line is more appropriately understood concerning the Antichrist, Mohammed was his precursor – the prophet of Satan, father of the sons of haughtiness.

"Even if all the things contained in his law were fables in philosophy and errors in theology, even for those who do not possess the light of reason, the very manners [Islam] teaches are from a school of vicious bestialities. [Muhammad] did not prove his new sect with any motive, having neither supernatural miracles nor natural reasons, but solely the force of arms, violence, fictions, lies and carnal license. It remains an impious, blasphemous, vicious cult, an invention of the devil and the direct way into the fires of Hell. It does not even merit the name of being called a religion." - St. Juan de Ribera, Archbishop of Valencia, missionary to Spanish Muslims and organizer of the Muslim expulsions of 1609 from Spain. Quoted in several locations from his 1599 Catechismo para la Instruction de los Nuevos Convertidos de los Moros.

"The Mahometan paradise, however, is only fit for beasts; for filthy sensual pleasure is all the believer has to expect there." - St. Alfonsus Liguori. Quoted from his book, The History of Heresies and their Refutation.

If I were you, I wouldn't go into any literature or take any information about the Christ from any heretic or unbeliever.

Actually, if I were him I would try to learn more about my faith if my faith was shaken in such a way by a book.

The problem with someone's faith being shaken is not reading sources that paints Jesus negatively, it's not knowing enough about your own faith.

Which, I admit, is something I give mature Catholics and Orthodox their fair credit for.

You can do that. Some people are not as strong in their faith or are more susceptible to intemperate influences. In such cases, I recommend these people disregard literature such as that, which is noxious to the Faith.

The author isn't an atheist; he's a Muslim. What you say though still applies. Personally, I just consider Muslims to he Christian heretics, but that's controversial like my support for the Crusdaes or my stance against abortion or my support for traditional marriage or just about most of my Christian beliefs.

In that cace, I'd recommend a marvelous book called Seeking Allah, Finding Jesus, which really shows how mainstream Christianity is the truth when compared to Islam.

I feel like Islam is Christianity in the same way that Mormonism is Christianity: Sure, they have Jesus, but at the end of the day, there are so many things that *don't* add up and are added that it kills the original grace. Remember Revelation 22:19

I personally am not at any risk of being shaken in my faith by a Mahometan or anyone for that fact.

Eh, I think Muslims are a bit too different from Christianity to really be a heresy, I'd say if you'd label them as anything, it'd be as infidels. The closest thing to them in Christianity would've been the Arians, and even then their beliefs would essentially be idolatry to Muslims.

And considering said book was written by a Muslim, I'd say that there'd be a bias there that ultimately illegitimizes it. That'd be like a book made to discredit Muhammad written by a Catholic.

I'm not sure that's entirely true. You'd have to take it on a case-by-case basis which takes into account the person's evidence and arguments.

This is true. However, initially going into it, I would be highly suspicious. I can say right now, if I were to right a book concerning that false prophet, it would not be to convince anyone he is a man of God; that much is for sure.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

The funny thing is, I guarantee most of the arguments made in that book if they are Atheist have been around in some form since the times of Marx and Freud.


Think about it this way: Let's say there is a religion. It is still seen as strange, but is starting to gain momentum with some of the upper classes. It has insights on Science that no one has ever thought of before. It markets itself as a "true replacement" of Christianity, and with the sheer amount of support it seems to be getting, you think to yourself, "maybe it is right?"

What religion am I talking about? Islam, and yet Christianity survived that. It seems like we are entering another time period like this. Just remember: "History merely repeats itself. It has all been done before. Nothing under the sun is truly new." Ecc 1:9. And if you are still really stirred about it, pray, and God will reveal Himself to you in a way that is undeniable.

The author isn't an atheist; he's a Muslim. What you say though still applies. Personally, I just consider Muslims to he Christian heretics, but that's controversial like my support for the Crusdaes or my stance against abortion or my support for traditional marriage or just about most of my Christian beliefs.

Unless you're a scholar like me, and that's pretty much all you do.

Even if the author is a scholar and that's all he does, I still wouldn't necessarily simply believe him or think he's onto something. I'd have to be convinced by a cogent argument.

No, I meant being a scholar of religion, my time is primarily spent reading books by people who aren't particularily religious, let alone Catholic