Christian Discussion Thread VII: The Christ Awakens.

[Menassa]

So why are the saints far fetched?

Because Christ is the only mediator, right?

I don't see why he would be, once you have a barrier between you and God, don't see why petitioning the saints to petition the barrier is all that terrible.

[Novsvacro]

Because Christ is the only mediator, right?

I don't see why he would be, once you have a barrier between you and God, don't see why petitioning the saints to petition the barrier is all that terrible.

But He isn't a 'barrier'. He's a gateway.

[Luminesa]

As I Catholic, I believe in the communion of saints. This means that all saints, living and dead, are a family. A church. One Body. And we all have to rely on each other in order to come as close to God as possible. So yes, asking the saints to help is a great idea. It's like asking an older friend who's already taken Algebra, and did a great job on it, to tutor you on the subject, so you'll do as well on it, if not better.

So it's not praying to the saints, in the place of God. Rather, it's asking for the saints, particularly the Blessed Mother (because no creature ever made was closer to God in body and spirit than her), to help us to get to Heaven. And asking Mamma Mary to help us reach her Son is the best way to get to Heaven!

But do we need help in reaching Christ? Isn't the Son the epitome of an accessible mediator between the Father and humanity?

He is! But as people, we often fall over and over, trying to seek Christ. So we need help! It's like if I ask for you to pray for me. It's the same if you pray to St. Catherine of Siena, only difference is she's in Heaven and doesn't have to worry about sinning anymore.

Of course Christ is the ultimate Mediator. But remember, He said, "Let your kingdom come, on earth as it is in Heaven". Jesus aims for everything on earth to be as it is in Heaven, and for Heaven and Earth, the soul and the body, to be united in God. Thus, just as we ask our friends on earth to pray for us to God, we can ask for our friends in Heaven to pray for us!

[Nordengrund]

Is it fair to say Southern Baptists are Christian "Salafis"

Not really. I would say it depends on your experience with them. I have heard of people who love us and others who think we are a bunch of fundies.

You have not seen fundies until you have hung out with Independent Baptists.

[Menassa]

I don't see why he would be, once you have a barrier between you and God, don't see why petitioning the saints to petition the barrier is all that terrible.

But He isn't a 'barrier'. He's a gateway.

Could you not say the saints are the gate guard to the gateway?

[Luminesa]

But He isn't a 'barrier'. He's a gateway.

Could you not say the saints are the gate guard to the gateway?

COME TO THE CATHOLIC SIDE!!!

DO EET!!!

[Menassa]

Could you not say the saints are the gate guard to the gateway?

COME TO THE CATHOLIC SIDE!!!

DO EET!!!

Thing is Lumi, I don't need the gateway.

[Novsvacro]

But He isn't a 'barrier'. He's a gateway.

Could you not say the saints are the gate guard to the gateway?

But there isn't a qualitative difference between a regular, living saint (a living Christian) and a saint in glory. They are role models, yes, but all have fallen short of the glory of God (IE, Christ). The saints in glory should be appreciated and remembered but I'm iffy about asking them to intercede.

[Menassa]

Could you not say the saints are the gate guard to the gateway?

But there isn't a qualitative difference between a regular, living saint (a living Christian) and a saint in glory. They are role models, yes, but all have fallen short of the glory of God (IE, Christ). The saints in glory should be appreciated and remembered but I'm iffy about asking them to intercede.

*shrug*

As someone who prays directly to God, I see it as if you're already setting up that difference between you and God, then the saints shouldn't be a problem.

[Constantinopolis]

But there isn't a qualitative difference between a regular, living saint (a living Christian) and a saint in glory. They are role models, yes, but all have fallen short of the glory of God (IE, Christ). The saints in glory should be appreciated and remembered but I'm iffy about asking them to intercede.

*shrug*

As someone who prays directly to God, I see it as if you're already setting up that difference between you and God, then the saints shouldn't be a problem.

We also pray directly to God the Father on certain occasions... including every Sunday.

[Novsvacro]

But there isn't a qualitative difference between a regular, living saint (a living Christian) and a saint in glory. They are role models, yes, but all have fallen short of the glory of God (IE, Christ). The saints in glory should be appreciated and remembered but I'm iffy about asking them to intercede.

*shrug*

As someone who prays directly to God, I see it as if you're already setting up that difference between you and God, then the saints shouldn't be a problem.

There is a problem, since Scripture is explicit in saying that "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”

[Luminesa]

COME TO THE CATHOLIC SIDE!!!

DO EET!!!

Thing is Lumi, I don't need the gateway.

But...but...we should all be walking to Heaven together!

[Menassa]

Thing is Lumi, I don't need the gateway.

But...but...we should all be walking to Heaven together!

We'll see who ends up where my friend.

*shrug*

As someone who prays directly to God, I see it as if you're already setting up that difference between you and God, then the saints shouldn't be a problem.

We also pray directly to God the Father on certain occasions... including every Sunday.

So do we, every time we pray.

[Cill Airne]

Anybody know when you are meant to use Incense in Anglican services? When is it lit and things?

Some parishes don't use incense, at all. Those that do (mostly High Church and Anglo-Catholic) parishes use them the same way in Catholicism. So they'd be lit before the service, used in the processional, during the gospel reading, and censing the elements during the offertory. Anglo-Catholic parishes use incense for every Mass, while High Church parishes tend to only use it on Holy Days.

[Luminesa]

But...but...we should all be walking to Heaven together!

We'll see who ends up where my friend.

We also pray directly to God the Father on certain occasions... including every Sunday.

So do we, every time we pray.

I want you in Heaven with me and everyone else! *Tugs arm.*

COME ON!!! X3

[Tutukerala]

Anybody know when you are meant to use Incense in Anglican services? When is it lit and things?

Some parishes don't use incense, at all. Those that do (mostly High Church and Anglo-Catholic) parishes use them the same way in Catholicism. So they'd be lit before the service, used in the processional, during the gospel reading, and censing the elements during the offertory. Anglo-Catholic parishes use incense for every Mass, while High Church parishes tend to only use it on Holy Days.

We use it to symbolize our prayers going to Heaven. So we use after Intercessions, after the confession and absolution, and right before the final benediction.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

*shrug*

As someone who prays directly to God, I see it as if you're already setting up that difference between you and God, then the saints shouldn't be a problem.

There is a problem, since Scripture is explicit in saying that "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”

Do you ask others to pray for you?

[Luminesa]

Some parishes don't use incense, at all. Those that do (mostly High Church and Anglo-Catholic) parishes use them the same way in Catholicism. So they'd be lit before the service, used in the processional, during the gospel reading, and censing the elements during the offertory. Anglo-Catholic parishes use incense for every Mass, while High Church parishes tend to only use it on Holy Days.

We use it to symbolize our prayers going to Heaven. So we use after Intercessions, after the confession and absolution, and right before the final benediction.

I dunno about others, but I LOVE the incense. It smells good and it makes the atmosphere at church more prayerful. X3

[Cill Airne]

Some parishes don't use incense, at all. Those that do (mostly High Church and Anglo-Catholic) parishes use them the same way in Catholicism. So they'd be lit before the service, used in the processional, during the gospel reading, and censing the elements during the offertory. Anglo-Catholic parishes use incense for every Mass, while High Church parishes tend to only use it on Holy Days.

We use it to symbolize our prayers going to Heaven. So we use after Intercessions, after the confession and absolution, and right before the final benediction.

As in a thurible (a chain censor, the thing this guy is holding) or do you just burn regular incense (like sticks)?

[The Princes of the Universe]

So why are the saints far fetched?

Because Christ is the only mediator, right?

Our relationships with our brothers and sisters in Christ isn't broken because of an itty-bitty thing like physical death.

[Czechanada]

We'll see who ends up where my friend.


So do we, every time we pray.

I want you in Heaven with me and everyone else! *Tugs arm.*

COME ON!!! X3

Nonsense, come with me to Hell and we'll smoke cigars with Allen Ginsberg.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

So why are the saints far fetched?

Because Christ is the only mediator, right?

The thing is though your confusing mediators and intercession. Mediating refers to Christs reconciling of man and God through His sacrifice. He brings the two together. Interceding on the other hand can be done by anyone. Just praying for someone is interceding on their behalf.

[The Princes of the Universe]

I want you in Heaven with me and everyone else! *Tugs arm.*
COME ON!!! X3

Nonsense, come with me to Hell and we'll smoke cigars with Allen Ginsberg.

Get behind me, Satan.

[The Union of the West]

Because Christ is the only mediator, right?

Our relationships with our brothers and sisters in Christ isn't broken because of an itty-bitty thing like physical death.

Yep. There's no difference between me asking someone in this thread to pray for me and asking a Saint to pray for me.

[Luminesa]

I want you in Heaven with me and everyone else! *Tugs arm.*

COME ON!!! X3

Nonsense, come with me to Hell and we'll smoke cigars with Allen Ginsberg.

...I'm good.