Panama Papers thread

[Mugrul]

Craig Murray? Ah, yes, the left can lampoon the more right leaning NSers for using invalid sources, but I suppose you're clear to use a wingnut's blog for a source if it suits your ideas on how this is somehow an inherent fault of global capitalism.

He's not wrong though. You're going to get selective coverage. They should've publicized the entire list, not just "people whom we disagree with!" Otherwise, it just becomes another popularity contest. If the politician is genuinely popular, nothing will happen, aside from "Western Media meddling in our affairs yet again" local media coverage. If said politician is genuinely unpopular, it'll simply serve as a trigger, but any scandal would've been a trigger. By not publicizing the entire list, they basically turned it into "my side yay - your side boo" kind of crap. Poor show.

Makes sense that they would put Poroshenko and Macri in there then.

[Shofercia]

He's not wrong though. You're going to get selective coverage. They should've publicized the entire list, not just "people whom we disagree with!" Otherwise, it just becomes another popularity contest. If the politician is genuinely popular, nothing will happen, aside from "Western Media meddling in our affairs yet again" local media coverage. If said politician is genuinely unpopular, it'll simply serve as a trigger, but any scandal would've been a trigger. By not publicizing the entire list, they basically turned it into "my side yay - your side boo" kind of crap. Poor show.

Makes sense that they would put Poroshenko and Macri in there then.

Ukraine's becoming a liability, much like Iraq was after Bush's Most Glorious Liberation. Western Press will start to change the narrative on Ukraine. This could be a good touch point. Not sure about Macri. But hey, as I've asked earlier, if this is simply about corruption and nothing else, why not release the entire list?

[Esternial]

He's not wrong though. You're going to get selective coverage. They should've publicized the entire list, not just "people whom we disagree with!" Otherwise, it just becomes another popularity contest. If the politician is genuinely popular, nothing will happen, aside from "Western Media meddling in our affairs yet again" local media coverage. If said politician is genuinely unpopular, it'll simply serve as a trigger, but any scandal would've been a trigger. By not publicizing the entire list, they basically turned it into "my side yay - your side boo" kind of crap. Poor show.

Makes sense that they would put Poroshenko and Macri in there then.

Meh. Even if Poroshenko's involved, anything's better than Yanukovych.

[Shofercia]

Makes sense that they would put Poroshenko and Macri in there then.

Meh. Even if Poroshenko's involved, anything's better than Yanukovych.

Ukraine's economy is doing stunningly well... at freefalling. EU citizens should get used to helping the IMF fund Ukraine and the refugees, while seeing their own benefits constantly and their pension age go up. Hmm, perhaps another intervention in the Middle East to spice up that debt?

[Novus America]

Meh. Even if Poroshenko's involved, anything's better than Yanukovych.

Ukraine's economy is doing stunningly well... at freefalling. EU citizens should get used to helping the IMF fund Ukraine and the refugees, while seeing their own benefits constantly and their pension age go up. Hmm, perhaps another intervention in the Middle East to spice up that debt?

Ukrainian economic problems is not the topic.

[The Land Fomerly Known as Ligerplace]

Ukraine's economy is doing stunningly well... at freefalling. EU citizens should get used to helping the IMF fund Ukraine and the refugees, while seeing their own benefits constantly and their pension age go up. Hmm, perhaps another intervention in the Middle East to spice up that debt?

Ukrainian economic problems is not the topic.

*South Russia you mean, but I digress.

[Shofercia]

Ukrainian economic problems is not the topic.

*South Russia you mean, but I digress.

We prefer the term Little Russia



Anyways, going back on topic after a tiny detour: http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2 ... -not-Putin

See, here's the problem. That article is decent, and yet:

She says it should be political dynamite in Russia, since Putin himself ordered all offshore accounts to be closed two years ago.

While I'm not going to bother looking for the source, I remember that Putin said that all offshore accounts not closed will have punitive taxes of at least 50%. So while it sucks to be Roldugin, who probably stands to lose millions of dollars if the allegations hold, it's not exactly the whole "must riot in the streets!" shenanigans. If it becomes an issue, the Kremlin can always use that $500 mil for road upgrades from Vladivostok to Novgorod.

One viral social media scandal featured Kremlin spokesman Peskov, who sported a $620,000 watch – worth more than four times his declared income – at his lavish wedding in a Sochi resort last summer.

The watch was a gift from his wife, Olympic Gold Medal Champion, Star of Ice Age, and famed Socialite, Tatiana Navka, who has quite a few sources of income. It's not uncommon for Gold Medal Winners to become millionaires in Russia. It's one of the ways to move up. The figure skating show Ice Age was featured on prime time television for several seasons, so it's entirely possible that Navka, one of the main stars, has that kind of money.

[Novus America]

*South Russia you mean, but I digress.

We prefer the term Little Russia



Anyways, going back on topic after a tiny detour: http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2 ... -not-Putin

See, here's the problem. That article is decent, and yet:

She says it should be political dynamite in Russia, since Putin himself ordered all offshore accounts to be closed two years ago.

While I'm not going to bother looking for the source, I remember that Putin said that all offshore accounts not closed will have punitive taxes of at least 50%. So while it sucks to be Roldugin, who probably stands to lose millions of dollars if the allegations hold, it's not exactly the whole "must riot in the streets!" shenanigans. If it becomes an issue, the Kremlin can always use that $500 mil for road upgrades from Vladivostok to Novgorod.

One viral social media scandal featured Kremlin spokesman Peskov, who sported a $620,000 watch – worth more than four times his declared income – at his lavish wedding in a Sochi resort last summer.

The watch was a gift from his wife, Olympic Gold Medal Champion, Star of Ice Age, and famed Socialite, Tatiana Navka, who has quite a few sources of income. It's not uncommon for Gold Medal Winners to become millionaires in Russia. It's one of the ways to move up. The figure skating show Ice Age was featured on prime time television for several seasons, so it's entirely possible that Navka, one of the main stars, has that kind of money.

This is Russia. Maybe a few million of that 500 actually go to the road. The rest back into the oligarchs' pockets.

[Shofercia]

We prefer the term Little Russia



Anyways, going back on topic after a tiny detour: http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2 ... -not-Putin

See, here's the problem. That article is decent, and yet:



While I'm not going to bother looking for the source, I remember that Putin said that all offshore accounts not closed will have punitive taxes of at least 50%. So while it sucks to be Roldugin, who probably stands to lose millions of dollars if the allegations hold, it's not exactly the whole "must riot in the streets!" shenanigans. If it becomes an issue, the Kremlin can always use that $500 mil for road upgrades from Vladivostok to Novgorod.



The watch was a gift from his wife, Olympic Gold Medal Champion, Star of Ice Age, and famed Socialite, Tatiana Navka, who has quite a few sources of income. It's not uncommon for Gold Medal Winners to become millionaires in Russia. It's one of the ways to move up. The figure skating show Ice Age was featured on prime time television for several seasons, so it's entirely possible that Navka, one of the main stars, has that kind of money.

This is Russia. Maybe a few million of that 500 actually go to the road. The rest back into the oligarchs' pockets.

I doubt it. Most of the money that comes from punitive taxes/fines generally goes to the people. Just ask Serdyukov. It's a funny story. He used to be the Minister of Defense, stole from the SpetzNaz, ended up being investigated since Putin thought no one from his inner circle would be that stupid, and... let's just say that although he didn't end up in jail, his money went back to the SpetzNaz. And then some.

The money that gets siphoned off usually comes from the taxes on natural resources, so with the fall of oil prices, there's been much less corruption in the Kremlin

[Novus America]

This is Russia. Maybe a few million of that 500 actually go to the road. The rest back into the oligarchs' pockets.

I doubt it. Most of the money that comes from punitive taxes/fines generally goes to the people. Just ask Serdyukov. It's a funny story. He used to be the Minister of Defense, stole from the SpetzNaz, ended up being investigated since Putin thought no one from his inner circle would be that stupid, and... let's just say that although he didn't end up in jail, his money went back to the SpetzNaz. And then some.

The money that gets siphoned off usually comes from the taxes on natural resources, so with the fall of oil prices, there's been much less corruption in the Kremlin

Umm Corruption is also rampant in the construction sector.
http://www.businessinsider.com/afp-corr ... ome-2015-5

So they still find places to steal. Besides considering a lot of the money may belong to Putin, and at least belongs to his family, I doubt that is going anywhere.

[Crumlark]

Do you think people are going to rise up in Russia or Saudi Arabia or Qatar? No.

It only takes one person. One well placed, determined person.

[Rio Cana]

People tend to put there money in offshore accounts in order to cheat there national taxman. Those that are least able to afford to pay there taxes have no choice but to pay there taxes but these people swimming in money rather do what it takes to not pay it.

This is a list of the names. Click , if you click the name it goes into more details - https://projects.icij.org/panama-papers ... /?lang=en#

So far the current President of Brazil, unlike some other current leaders, does not seem to be on that list.

[MERIZoC]

People tend to put there money in offshore accounts in order to cheat there national taxman. Those that are least able to afford to pay there taxes have no choice but to pay there taxes but these people swimming in money rather do what it takes to not pay it.

This is a list of the names. Click , if you click the name it goes into more details - https://projects.icij.org/panama-papers ... /?lang=en#

So far the current President of Brazil, unlike some other current leaders, does not seem to be on that list.

Yeah, well, she's got enough shit on her plate as is.

[Ratateague]

I don't know if it was mentioned already, but shortly after the leak, there was a coordinated DDoS attack on the Organized Crime and Corruption Reporting Project as well as websites that had published the leaks. Last ditch effort, I guess.
(source: Quartz, The Globe and Mail, OCCRP twitter feed)

[Costa Fierro]

They should've publicized the entire list, not just "people whom we disagree with!"

So the President of Ukraine, various heads of state and government in the Middle East and the Prime Minister of Iceland are all people Western countries disagree with?

By not publicizing the entire list, they basically turned it into "my side yay - your side boo" kind of crap. Poor show.

So...you're saying that the revealing of pro-Western politicians in addition with politicians like Putin and Xi Jinping is "poor show"?

[Grand Britannia]

They should've publicized the entire list, not just "people whom we disagree with!"

So the President of Ukraine, various heads of state and government in the Middle East and the Prime Minister of Iceland are all people Western countries disagree with?

By not publicizing the entire list, they basically turned it into "my side yay - your side boo" kind of crap. Poor show.

So...you're saying that the revealing of pro-Western politicians in addition with politicians like Putin and Xi Jinping is "poor show"?

I'd agree with Shof, though. All those could be attributed at striking a "balance" to not look biased, but there hasn't even been anything on anyone in the US.

[Geilinor]

So the President of Ukraine, various heads of state and government in the Middle East and the Prime Minister of Iceland are all people Western countries disagree with?



So...you're saying that the revealing of pro-Western politicians in addition with politicians like Putin and Xi Jinping is "poor show"?

I'd agree with Shof, though. All those could be attributed at striking a "balance" to not look biased, but there hasn't even been anything on anyone in the US.

Journalists are still looking through the papers and because of FATCA it would be illegal for an American to not report their account.

[MERIZoC]

So the President of Ukraine, various heads of state and government in the Middle East and the Prime Minister of Iceland are all people Western countries disagree with?



So...you're saying that the revealing of pro-Western politicians in addition with politicians like Putin and Xi Jinping is "poor show"?

I'd agree with Shof, though. All those could be attributed at striking a "balance" to not look biased, but there hasn't even been anything on anyone in the US.

And as we all know, investigative journalists tend to look the other way at shady dealings in the US.

Maybe, just maybe, the reason we haven't seen any US names yet, is because there aren't any important ones they've found so far. Just a thought.

[MERIZoC]

I'd agree with Shof, though. All those could be attributed at striking a "balance" to not look biased, but there hasn't even been anything on anyone in the US.

Journalists are still looking through the papers and because of FATCA it would be illegal for an American to not report their account.

Oh god you're naive.

[Geilinor]

Journalists are still looking through the papers and because of FATCA it would be illegal for an American to not report their account.

Oh god you're naive.

That's not what I'm saying, but they'll be even more careful in terms of trying to hide it.

[Mugrul]

So the President of Ukraine, various heads of state and government in the Middle East and the Prime Minister of Iceland are all people Western countries disagree with?



So...you're saying that the revealing of pro-Western politicians in addition with politicians like Putin and Xi Jinping is "poor show"?

I'd agree with Shof, though. All those could be attributed at striking a "balance" to not look biased, but there hasn't even been anything on anyone in the US.

I'm sure they'd include someone from the US in order to not appear biased if this really were a systematic anti-Putin & other authoritarian leaders conspiracy.

[Novus America]

So the President of Ukraine, various heads of state and government in the Middle East and the Prime Minister of Iceland are all people Western countries disagree with?



So...you're saying that the revealing of pro-Western politicians in addition with politicians like Putin and Xi Jinping is "poor show"?

I'd agree with Shof, though. All those could be attributed at striking a "balance" to not look biased, but there hasn't even been anything on anyone in the US.

Do you have any real proof to go with that conspiracy theory? No big US names appearing does not prove a conspiracy, especially as they probably use other law firms in Delaware or London.

[Major-Tom]

Apparently 25000 protesters were in Reykjavik today. That's like.....8-10% of Iceland.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

This is a big leak for sure, and an important one.

I am not sure however that this will be the ruin of these families in front of the public eye.

[Victoriala]

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