Panama Papers thread

[Thomas Insaniac]

Apparently the leaks contain next to nothing about Americans, so this won't be big in the states. Gonna have pretty resounding effects in Europe, Iceland is probably going to recall their PM and Xi Jinping is gonna have issues in China, apparently his brother-in-law is liable in this. Although even though Americans aren't implicated in this, for anything to be done the US will probably need to be cooperative, so much of the world's money goes through the U.S......

[Geilinor]

Apparently the leaks contain next to nothing about Americans, so this won't be big in the states.

Not yet, but journalists are still looking through the documents and names could come out.

[Calimera II]

Apparently the leaks contain next to nothing about Americans, so this won't be big in the states. Gonna have pretty resounding effects in Europe, Iceland is probably going to recall their PM and Xi Jinping is gonna have issues in China, apparently his brother-in-law is liable in this. Although even though Americans aren't implicated in this, for anything to be done the US will probably need to be cooperative, so much of the world's money goes through the U.S......

Being on the list does not mean you committed a crime whatsoever...

[Thomas Insaniac]

Apparently the leaks contain next to nothing about Americans, so this won't be big in the states.

Not yet, but journalists are still looking through the documents and names could come out.

That's true, but as of now I don't think anything has been found.

Apparently the leaks contain next to nothing about Americans, so this won't be big in the states. Gonna have pretty resounding effects in Europe, Iceland is probably going to recall their PM and Xi Jinping is gonna have issues in China, apparently his brother-in-law is liable in this. Although even though Americans aren't implicated in this, for anything to be done the US will probably need to be cooperative, so much of the world's money goes through the U.S......

Being on the list does not mean you committed a crime whatsoever...

Legal =/= Moral.

The Icelandic PM apparently campaigned on the topics of anti-corruption and justice following the 2008 recession, to be caught doing the same thing he is supposed to be against will definitely cause issues. Same with Xi Jinping, he is supposed to be anti-corruption and is portrayed as such (accusations do exist that he's just getting rid of enemies and using anti-corruption as the basis, but eh)

[Internationalist Bastard]

Interesting, but I honestly doubt anything here is even actionable

[Calimera II]

So being mentioned means you committed a crime?

that's not what I said, my dear friend. i didn't even say macri himself was personally involved in this. what I said is that it would be weird for the law firm to mention him out of nowhere if he didn't have ties to them. still, macri actually presided over fleg trading which is managed by mossack fonseca. iirc, he denied owning shares in the company but admitted that his family does (which is what i said: "mauricio macri's family is implicated in the scandal). if it makes you feel better, the kirchner also are. and messi.

Macri already responded to the issue. Nothing illegal. No big deal whatsoever.

[Major-Tom]

What a greek tragedy.

World leaders, often untainted by corruption, have resorted to tax dodging and money laundering. Oh my lord, this is an unprecedented event in the history of mankind.

[Calimera II]

What a greek tragedy.

World leaders, often untainted by corruption, have resorted to tax dodging and money laundering. Oh my lord, this is an unprecedented event in the history of mankind.

It is way more nuanced. If you are on that list, it does not mean you committed a crime.

[Major-Tom]

What a greek tragedy.

World leaders, often untainted by corruption, have resorted to tax dodging and money laundering. Oh my lord, this is an unprecedented event in the history of mankind.

It is way more nuanced. If you are on that list, it does not mean you committed a crime.

That too. Macri, for example. I guarantee that this will be blown out of proportion, and I also have no doubt that some of those men and women have legitimately done illegal things.

[Geilinor]

What a greek tragedy.

World leaders, often untainted by corruption, have resorted to tax dodging and money laundering. Oh my lord, this is an unprecedented event in the history of mankind.

I'm not sure if everything Mossack Fonseca does is related to tax dodging but there is a lot of it.

[Major-Tom]

What a greek tragedy.

World leaders, often untainted by corruption, have resorted to tax dodging and money laundering. Oh my lord, this is an unprecedented event in the history of mankind.

I'm not sure if everything Mossack Fonseca does is related to tax dodging but there is a lot of it.

Of course, it's just an example. That being said, Calimera's point should really be taken by all, its not as if everyone listed is a corrupted soul, though some are.

[Major-Tom]

Multiple calls for snap elections have been made in Iceland over the revelations. Pirate party government soon?

Gee, I'm sure they'll work wonders for Iceland.

[Empire of Narnia]

Seems to affect mostly ex-dictators and guys like Putin who are hated in the West anyways. It's not like a bunch of mainstream politicians have been implicated. I'd say this has been way overblown by the whole anti-government community.

[Geilinor]

Multiple calls for snap elections have been made in Iceland over the revelations. Pirate party government soon?

Gee, I'm sure they'll work wonders for Iceland.

Oddly enough, they're running at almost 40% in the polls.

[Calimera II]

I'm not sure if everything Mossack Fonseca does is related to tax dodging but there is a lot of it.

Of course, it's just an example. That being said, Calimera's point should really be taken by all, its not as if everyone listed is a corrupted soul, though some are.

I do not like the way it is presented. The official site is also over-dramatised, as if everyone on the list is a horrible human being.

[Calimera II]

Seems to affect mostly ex-dictators and guys like Putin who are hated in the West anyways. It's not like a bunch of mainstream politicians have been implicated. I'd say this has been way overblown by the whole anti-government community.

Britain seems pretty involved too.

[Bogdanov Vishniac]

Apparently the leaks contain next to nothing about Americans, so this won't be big in the states.

Not yet, but journalists are still looking through the documents and names could come out.

Fat chance of that.

Whoever leaked the Mossack Fonseca papers appears motivated by a genuine desire to expose the system that enables the ultra wealthy to hide their massive stashes, often corruptly obtained and all involved in tax avoidance. These Panamanian lawyers hide the wealth of a significant proportion of the 1%, and the massive leak of their documents ought to be a wonderful thing.

Unfortunately the leaker has made the dreadful mistake of turning to the western corporate media to publicise the results. In consequence the first major story, published today by the Guardian, is all about Vladimir Putin and a cellist on the fiddle. As it happens I believe the story and have no doubt Putin is bent.

But why focus on Russia? Russian wealth is only a tiny minority of the money hidden away with the aid of Mossack Fonseca. In fact, it soon becomes obvious that the selective reporting is going to stink.

The Suddeutsche Zeitung, which received the leak, gives a detailed explanation of the methodology the corporate media used to search the files. The main search they have done is for names associated with breaking UN sanctions regimes. The Guardian reports this too and helpfully lists those countries as Zimbabwe, North Korea, Russia and Syria. The filtering of this Mossack Fonseca information by the corporate media follows a direct western governmental agenda. There is no mention at all of use of Mossack Fonseca by massive western corporations or western billionaires – the main customers. And the Guardian is quick to reassure that “much of the leaked material will remain private.”

What do you expect? The leak is being managed by the grandly but laughably named “International Consortium of Investigative Journalists”, which is funded and organised entirely by the USA’s Center for Public Integrity. Their funders include

Ford Foundation
Carnegie Endowment
Rockefeller Family Fund
W K Kellogg Foundation
Open Society Foundation (Soros)

among many others. Do not expect a genuine expose of western capitalism. The dirty secrets of western corporations will remain unpublished.

Expect hits at Russia, Iran and Syria and some tiny “balancing” western country like Iceland. A superannuated UK peer or two will be sacrificed – someone already with dementia.

The corporate media – the Guardian and BBC in the UK – have exclusive access to the database which you and I cannot see. They are protecting themselves from even seeing western corporations’ sensitive information by only looking at those documents which are brought up by specific searches such as UN sanctions busters. Never forget the Guardian smashed its copies of the Snowden files on the instruction of MI6.

What if they did Mossack Fonseca database searches on the owners of all the corporate media and their companies, and all the editors and senior corporate media journalists? What if they did Mossack Fonseca searches on all the most senior people at the BBC? What if they did Mossack Fonseca searches on every donor to the Center for Public Integrity and their companies?

What if they did Mossack Fonseca searches on every listed company in the western stock exchanges, and on every western millionaire they could trace?

That would be much more interesting. I know Russia and China are corrupt, you don’t have to tell me that. What if you look at things that we might, here in the west, be able to rise up and do something about?

And what if you corporate lapdogs let the people see the actual data

[Talvezout]

Darn it, you beat me to it.

But yeah, this is big.

Pretty big.

[Novus America]

Apparently the leaks contain next to nothing about Americans, so this won't be big in the states. Gonna have pretty resounding effects in Europe, Iceland is probably going to recall their PM and Xi Jinping is gonna have issues in China, apparently his brother-in-law is liable in this. Although even though Americans aren't implicated in this, for anything to be done the US will probably need to be cooperative, so much of the world's money goes through the U.S......

Being on the list does not mean you committed a crime whatsoever...

True. But in Putin and the Iceland guys case it looks like they illegally failed to report the money. Especially as Putin only claims a very modest salary and small amount of assets.

Simply having an off shore account is no big deal. But if you used it illegally there is a problem.

[Major-Tom]

Not yet, but journalists are still looking through the documents and names could come out.

Fat chance of that.

Whoever leaked the Mossack Fonseca papers appears motivated by a genuine desire to expose the system that enables the ultra wealthy to hide their massive stashes, often corruptly obtained and all involved in tax avoidance. These Panamanian lawyers hide the wealth of a significant proportion of the 1%, and the massive leak of their documents ought to be a wonderful thing.

Unfortunately the leaker has made the dreadful mistake of turning to the western corporate media to publicise the results. In consequence the first major story, published today by the Guardian, is all about Vladimir Putin and a cellist on the fiddle. As it happens I believe the story and have no doubt Putin is bent.

But why focus on Russia? Russian wealth is only a tiny minority of the money hidden away with the aid of Mossack Fonseca. In fact, it soon becomes obvious that the selective reporting is going to stink.

The Suddeutsche Zeitung, which received the leak, gives a detailed explanation of the methodology the corporate media used to search the files. The main search they have done is for names associated with breaking UN sanctions regimes. The Guardian reports this too and helpfully lists those countries as Zimbabwe, North Korea, Russia and Syria. The filtering of this Mossack Fonseca information by the corporate media follows a direct western governmental agenda. There is no mention at all of use of Mossack Fonseca by massive western corporations or western billionaires – the main customers. And the Guardian is quick to reassure that “much of the leaked material will remain private.”

What do you expect? The leak is being managed by the grandly but laughably named “International Consortium of Investigative Journalists”, which is funded and organised entirely by the USA’s Center for Public Integrity. Their funders include

Ford Foundation
Carnegie Endowment
Rockefeller Family Fund
W K Kellogg Foundation
Open Society Foundation (Soros)

among many others. Do not expect a genuine expose of western capitalism. The dirty secrets of western corporations will remain unpublished.

Expect hits at Russia, Iran and Syria and some tiny “balancing” western country like Iceland. A superannuated UK peer or two will be sacrificed – someone already with dementia.

The corporate media – the Guardian and BBC in the UK – have exclusive access to the database which you and I cannot see. They are protecting themselves from even seeing western corporations’ sensitive information by only looking at those documents which are brought up by specific searches such as UN sanctions busters. Never forget the Guardian smashed its copies of the Snowden files on the instruction of MI6.

What if they did Mossack Fonseca database searches on the owners of all the corporate media and their companies, and all the editors and senior corporate media journalists? What if they did Mossack Fonseca searches on all the most senior people at the BBC? What if they did Mossack Fonseca searches on every donor to the Center for Public Integrity and their companies?

What if they did Mossack Fonseca searches on every listed company in the western stock exchanges, and on every western millionaire they could trace?

That would be much more interesting. I know Russia and China are corrupt, you don’t have to tell me that. What if you look at things that we might, here in the west, be able to rise up and do something about?

And what if you corporate lapdogs let the people see the actual data

Craig Murray? Ah, yes, the left can lampoon the more right leaning NSers for using invalid sources, but I suppose you're clear to use a wingnut's blog for a source if it suits your ideas on how this is somehow an inherent fault of global capitalism.

[Ashworth-Attwater]

that's not what I said, my dear friend. i didn't even say macri himself was personally involved in this. what I said is that it would be weird for the law firm to mention him out of nowhere if he didn't have ties to them. still, macri actually presided over fleg trading which is managed by mossack fonseca. iirc, he denied owning shares in the company but admitted that his family does (which is what i said: "mauricio macri's family is implicated in the scandal). if it makes you feel better, the kirchner also are. and messi.

Macri already responded to the issue. Nothing illegal. No big deal whatsoever.

i mean, he's had his name mentioned in this huge corruption scandal. it is a big deal, even if he's innocent. you can't ignore this just because you like macri.

[Geilinor]

Not yet, but journalists are still looking through the documents and names could come out.

Fat chance of that.
]

That's nonsense. Dictators are more corrupt than democratic leaders because there's no accountability. But David Cameron's father and the president of Argentina's family have been named.

[Geilinor]

Macri already responded to the issue. Nothing illegal. No big deal whatsoever.

i mean, he's had his name mentioned in this huge corruption scandal. it is a big deal, even if he's innocent. you can't ignore this just because you like macri.

He's only on the list because of his role in his family's business.

[Major-Tom]

Macri already responded to the issue. Nothing illegal. No big deal whatsoever.

i mean, he's had his name mentioned in this huge corruption scandal. it is a big deal, even if he's innocent. you can't ignore this just because you like macri.

His name was mentioned. Until details arise on the extent of his involvement in all of this, I'm simply not going to engage in a kneejerk propensity to make accusations.

[Calimera II]

Being on the list does not mean you committed a crime whatsoever...

True. But in Putin and the Iceland guys case it looks like they illegally failed to report the money. Especially as Putin only claims a very modest salary and small amount of assets.

Simply having an off shore account is no big deal. But if you used it illegally there is a problem.

Indeed, that's the whole point. But to be honest, the way the facts are presented makes it look like everyone on that list committed a crime.
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