Islamic State Crisis Megathread (ISIS/ISIL/IS) II

[Gauthier]

"Real Muslims are like Daesh." Classy.

Mohammed was like Daesh.

Most people that identify as Muslim aren't, though. Not saying that.

Keep digging. You can reach China in a couple hours at this pace.

[Uxupox]

What the fuck no they aren't. BY saying that you alienate Muslims across the globe.

ISIS =/= All muslims across the globe. ISIS is far more faithful than the average believer.

I have highly doubt that but I'm not an expert on Muslim theology so I can't really say anything about it.

[Olerand]

The term means the same thing. Daesh is the acronym of Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant. But, as you have stated, it sounds ugly in Arabic, and is similar to daaes, which is to step or trample.

The meaning is the same however.

Isis will kill you if you call them daesh to their face though. I personally join in with the Shia crowd and call them takfiri

They'll kill you for plenty of reasons. I'm not Muslim and cannot recite the Koran; nor am I Christian and I am unwilling to pay the Jizzya. As an atheist, there's no way but down.

[Daburuetchi]

"Real Muslims are like Daesh." Classy.

Mohammed was like Daesh.

Most people that identify as Muslim aren't, though. Not saying that.

You could say the same thing about literally any Christain group during the Middle Ages. It wasn't a time know for its progressivism

[Rejeistan]

Mohammed was like Daesh.

Most people that identify as Muslim aren't, though. Not saying that.

Keep digging. You can reach China in a couple hours at this pace.

I dig it.

ISIS =/= All muslims across the globe. ISIS is far more faithful than the average believer.

I have highly doubt that but I'm not an expert on Muslim theology so I can't really say anything about it.

They believe to the point that they'll fight, kill, and die for their beliefs. Nothing is taken as a metaphor because of the obvious contradiction with reality, rather, reality is wrong, Islam is right, and they're so convinced of this that they'll fight for it.

Yes, they're more faithful than the average Muslim.

[November ARL]

What the fuck no they aren't. BY saying that you alienate Muslims across the globe.

ISIS =/= All muslims across the globe. ISIS is far more faithful than the average believer.

Really thought Mohammad himself warned against them Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi is their leader and think he warned against someone with their city in their name corrupting the people and about the Qua ran going only to their throats not their hearts so they sprout off this garbage they do. I belive it's part of their faith as its prophecy but doesn't reflect their belief.

[Olerand]

Isis will kill you if you call them daesh to their face though. I personally join in with the Shia crowd and call them takfiri

Still don't understand why they uppity by being called Daesh. I thought Daesh mean't Islamic state in Arabic.

They're not. They're uppity when it's used as an insult, as they always would be when insulted; but the word itself won't send them into a frenzy. It means the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant, it just sounds ugly.

[Rejeistan]

ISIS =/= All muslims across the globe. ISIS is far more faithful than the average believer.

Really thought Mohammad himself warned against them Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi is their leader and think he warned against someone with their city in their name corrupting the people and about the Qua ran going only to their throats not their hearts so they sprout off this garbage they do. I belive it's part of their faith as its prophecy but doesn't reflect their belief.

He didn't do everything wrong, but he had plenty of moral failings that ISIS shares.

Mohammed was like Daesh.

Most people that identify as Muslim aren't, though. Not saying that.

You could say the same thing about literally any Christain group during the Middle Ages. It wasn't a time know for its progressivism

Not a fan of medieval Christianity either.

[Daburuetchi]

Isis will kill you if you call them daesh to their face though. I personally join in with the Shia crowd and call them takfiri

They'll kill you for plenty of reasons. I'm not Muslim and cannot recite the Koran; nor am I Christian and I am unwilling to pay the Jizzya. As an atheist, there's no way but down.

Isis doesn't expect you to be hafiz. They just expect you to be qāri I.e. recite the Koran properly. Isis will kill you rather than make you pay a jizzya so your problem is solved there.

[Daburuetchi]

Really thought Mohammad himself warned against them Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi is their leader and think he warned against someone with their city in their name corrupting the people and about the Qua ran going only to their throats not their hearts so they sprout off this garbage they do. I belive it's part of their faith as its prophecy but doesn't reflect their belief.

He didn't do everything wrong, but he had plenty of moral failings that ISIS shares.

You could say the same thing about literally any Christain group during the Middle Ages. It wasn't a time know for its progressivism

Not a fan of medieval Christianity either.

If you admit that other groups during the Middle Ages are just as brutal you have no basis for which to single Islam out in particular

[Uxupox]

Really thought Mohammad himself warned against them Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi is their leader and think he warned against someone with their city in their name corrupting the people and about the Qua ran going only to their throats not their hearts so they sprout off this garbage they do. I belive it's part of their faith as its prophecy but doesn't reflect their belief.

He didn't do everything wrong, but he had plenty of moral failings that ISIS shares.

You could say the same thing about literally any Christain group during the Middle Ages. It wasn't a time know for its progressivism

Not a fan of medieval Christianity either.

Are you really suggesting to observe him from a modern moral standpoint? News mate. Cultures, philosophies and ideas change overtime and get adapted as they change. Killing was the norm during those ages. And while they are horrendous from a modern viewpoint they are understandable during their own time. Only around 1500 did the term humanism was even coined.

[Rejeistan]

He didn't do everything wrong, but he had plenty of moral failings that ISIS shares.



Not a fan of medieval Christianity either.

If you admit that other groups during the Middle Ages are just as brutal you have no basis for which to single Islam out in particular

The (major) difference is that Islam seems to still be stuck in the 8th Century, while (most) of Christendom is around the 19th. There are a few minor differences as well, such as the emphasis on martyrdom, but I don't think that's as important, really. If there was a Christian State of Iraq and Syria, I'd have a big problem with them too.

[Olerand]

They'll kill you for plenty of reasons. I'm not Muslim and cannot recite the Koran; nor am I Christian and I am unwilling to pay the Jizzya. As an atheist, there's no way but down.

Isis doesn't expect you to be hafiz. They just expect you to be qāri I.e. recite the Koran properly. Isis will kill you rather than make you pay a jizzya so your problem is solved there.

Yes, as I have said. You need to be able to recite the Koran. And as you have said, I would be killed simply and plainly anyway.

[Rejeistan]

He didn't do everything wrong, but he had plenty of moral failings that ISIS shares.



Not a fan of medieval Christianity either.

Are you really suggesting to observe him from a modern moral standpoint? News mate. Cultures, philosophies and ideas change overtime and get adapted as they change. Killing was the norm during those ages. And while they are horrendous from a modern viewpoint they are understandable during their own time. Only around 1500 did the term humanism was even coined.

I observe him from a modern moral standpoint because people in the modern era (ISIS) are trying to emulate him. So his actions and morality are relevant, but I wish that it wasn't, and he was recognized as a brutal warlord rather than a prophet and moral leader.

[Daburuetchi]

If you admit that other groups during the Middle Ages are just as brutal you have no basis for which to single Islam out in particular

The (major) difference is that Islam seems to still be stuck in the 8th Century, while (most) of Christendom is around the 19th. There are a few minor differences as well, such as the emphasis on martyrdom, but I don't think that's as important, really. If there was a Christian State of Iraq and Syria, I'd have a big problem with them too.

Christianity spread as a result of the admiration their martyrs gained. Only an extreme minority Muslims adhere to Wahhabism and Islam as a whole has so many different interpretations you can't reasonably make this claims.

[Rejeistan]

The (major) difference is that Islam seems to still be stuck in the 8th Century, while (most) of Christendom is around the 19th. There are a few minor differences as well, such as the emphasis on martyrdom, but I don't think that's as important, really. If there was a Christian State of Iraq and Syria, I'd have a big problem with them too.

Christianity spread as a result of the admiration their martyrs gained. Only an extreme minority Muslims adhere to Wahhabism and Islam as a whole has so many different interpretations you can't reasonably make this claims.

Sorry, which claim? Islam is currently the major violent religion right now. That's just, a fact about religiously motivated terror and civil war right now.

[Sebarkia]

This is a serious crisis.

I don't know whether or not this is accidental, but the U.S is indirectly helping ISIS.
Bombing raids create more civilian casualties than militant casualties, weapon drops are falling into ISIS hands and militants are disguising themselves as rebels to receive training.

When will america find out. Russia isn't much help either as they're threatening to destroy U.S aircraft, etc if the U.S.A doesn't enform them of their arrival. This is just stupid.

[Daburuetchi]

Christianity spread as a result of the admiration their martyrs gained. Only an extreme minority Muslims adhere to Wahhabism and Islam as a whole has so many different interpretations you can't reasonably make this claims.

Sorry, which claim? Islam is currently the major violent religion right now. That's just, a fact about religiously motivated terror and civil war right now.

Only a minority sect of Islam is responsible and even then most terrorist acts are committed by non-Muslims so your claim that Islam as whole is stuck in the 8th century falls apart

[Olerand]

Sorry, which claim? Islam is currently the major violent religion right now. That's just, a fact about religiously motivated terror and civil war right now.

Only a minority sect of Islam is responsible and even then most terrorist acts are committed by non-Muslims so your claim that Islam as whole is stuck in the 8th century falls apart

The views of modern Muslims don't seem to lend credibility to the idea that the Islamic world is in 2015 either, however.

[Rejeistan]

Sorry, which claim? Islam is currently the major violent religion right now. That's just, a fact about religiously motivated terror and civil war right now.

Only a minority sect of Islam is responsible and even then most terrorist acts are committed by non-Muslims so your claim that Islam as whole is stuck in the 8th century falls apart

A minority of Muslims, but still quite a few (there are a lot of Muslims). The middle east in particular is a hellscape, even rich nations like Saudi Arabia that have large populations of fundamentalists have terrible social and legal policies, and even in Indonesia there are still a lot of problems with fundamentalist Islam being a damaging force, even if not officially sanctioned.

[Daburuetchi]

Only a minority sect of Islam is responsible and even then most terrorist acts are committed by non-Muslims so your claim that Islam as whole is stuck in the 8th century falls apart

A minority of Muslims, but still quite a few (there are a lot of Muslims). The middle east in particular is a hellscape, even rich nations like Saudi Arabia that have large populations of fundamentalists have terrible social and legal policies, and even in Indonesia there are still a lot of problems with fundamentalist Islam being a damaging force, even if not officially sanctioned.

Saudi Arabia is a rich country for the house of Saud not the masses in general who see very little of that oil revenue. But again seeing how an extreme minority of the 1.3 million Muslims on the planet are salafist and they don't even commit the most terrorist attacks your claim of Islam's backwardness being the primary motivator ain't true.

[Rejeistan]

A minority of Muslims, but still quite a few (there are a lot of Muslims). The middle east in particular is a hellscape, even rich nations like Saudi Arabia that have large populations of fundamentalists have terrible social and legal policies, and even in Indonesia there are still a lot of problems with fundamentalist Islam being a damaging force, even if not officially sanctioned.

Saudi Arabia is a rich country for the house of Saud not the masses in general who see very little of that oil revenue. But again seeing how an extreme minority of the 1.3 million Muslims on the planet are salafist and they don't even commit the most terrorist attacks your claim of Islam's backwardness being the primary motivator ain't true.

The reason why people take up arms for ISIS is because they believe that god wants them to fight for his glory and put down the infidels. Sure, political strife can lead to radicalization and lend power to extremist groups, but those groups wouldn't exist in the first place without those ideas being out there originally. And those ideas are Islamic, not just Syrian-Nationalist or something.

[Daburuetchi]

Saudi Arabia is a rich country for the house of Saud not the masses in general who see very little of that oil revenue. But again seeing how an extreme minority of the 1.3 million Muslims on the planet are salafist and they don't even commit the most terrorist attacks your claim of Islam's backwardness being the primary motivator ain't true.

The reason why people take up arms for ISIS is because they believe that god wants them to fight for his glory and put down the infidels. Sure, political strife can lead to radicalization and lend power to extremist groups, but those groups wouldn't exist in the first place without those ideas being out there originally. And those ideas are Islamic, not just Syrian-Nationalist or something.

The idea that you need to fight for some higher calling or powe ain't uniquely Islamic. The rabid nationalism in Euorpe that lead to both world wars should be enough to understand that these ideas are just being used as casus bellis. The Ba'ath party has in the past under them regime of Saddam Hussein has committed genocide. This is the same ideology the Syrian regime follows so yes secular ideologies could be exploited in the same way.

[Baltenstein]

You certainly don't see many Latin Americans or SE Asians blowing themselves up in Western capitals to avenge the "colonial past" or something.

[Rejeistan]

The reason why people take up arms for ISIS is because they believe that god wants them to fight for his glory and put down the infidels. Sure, political strife can lead to radicalization and lend power to extremist groups, but those groups wouldn't exist in the first place without those ideas being out there originally. And those ideas are Islamic, not just Syrian-Nationalist or something.

The idea that you need to fight for some higher calling or powe ain't uniquely Islamic. The rabid nationalism in Euorpe that lead to both world wars should be enough to understand that these ideas are just being used as casus bellis. The Ba'ath party has in the past under them regime of Saddam Hussein has committed genocide. This is the same ideology the Syrian regime follows so yes secular ideologies could be exploited in the same way.

Could be, definitely. Stalinism and Maoism were secular regimes that were horrible. But just because they are as bad as some other regimes, doesn't mean that they're blame-free.

It isn't unique to Islamism, but it is still a part of it.