Islamic State Crisis Megathread (ISIS/ISIL/IS) II

[West Aurelia]

The US has ended the "train" part of the train and equip program. Now they're just sending equipment to "vetted" rebel commanders in the field. If the original plan was a disaster, how is this going to be any better? Only the commanders will receive any form of training or background checks, making the US-backed groups less effective than they are now. And because the foot soldiers won't be vetted, the groups could potentially be infiltrated by the very people they're trying to fight.

[Gauthier]

The US has ended the "train" part of the train and equip program. Now they're just sending equipment to "vetted" rebel commanders in the field. If the original plan was a disaster, how is this going to be any better? Only the commanders will receive any form of training or background checks, making the US-backed groups less effective than they are now. And because the foot soldiers won't be vetted, the groups could potentially be infiltrated by the very people they're trying to fight.

They talked about this on NPR and they mentioned something about the Kurds getting most of the windfall.

[The Greater Lebanon]

The US has ended the "train" part of the train and equip program. Now they're just sending equipment to "vetted" rebel commanders in the field. If the original plan was a disaster, how is this going to be any better? Only the commanders will receive any form of training or background checks, making the US-backed groups less effective than they are now. And because the foot soldiers won't be vetted, the groups could potentially be infiltrated by the very people they're trying to fight.

I dont believe the American Pentagon or CIA program was serious anyways.

I believe

1. The program was just there to make the USA look like it was training good rebels as an alternative to Islamist ones
2. Obama has no intention of seeing a secular Free Syrian Army since he is in bed with the Muslim brotherhood and Iran.
3. Sending weapons to the Islamist "FSA" who are more inclined to think and act like the Muslim Brotherhood as opposed to more violent groups such as Al Qaeda or Daesh serves his interest.
4. Or if not #3 it will be an excuse to give Iran full legitimacy to attack the rebels, perhaps he agreed to something in the side deals.

I am 100% sure most Syrian people aren't Jihadist terrorists, sure there might be some among the refugees but that is a minority. The US has a huge pool of people to select from outside of Syria already if it is really serious about training an FSA.

Just like the many Sunni tribes who have no intention an Islamic State, the Obama administration refuse to help against Daesh or their puppet Regime of Iran, a similar policy is in Syria. Just like The Obama administration won't support the secular Libyan forces that are backed by Sisi's Egypt, which is bogged down by internal issues.

[Supreme Allied Commander]

How America can counter Putin’s moves in Syria
By Condoleezza Rice and Robert M. Gates
....
Second, we have to create our own facts on the ground. No-fly zones and safe harbors for populations are not “half-baked” ideas. They worked before (protecting the Kurds for 12 years under Saddam Hussein’s reign of terror) and warrant serious consideration. We will continue to have refugees until people are safe. Moreover, providing robust support for Kurdish forces, Sunni tribes and what’s left of the Iraqi special forces is not “mumbo-jumbo.” It might just salvage our current, failing strategy. A serious commitment to these steps would also solidify our relationship with Turkey, which is reeling from the implications of Moscow’s intervention. In short, we must create a better military balance of power on the ground if we are to seek a political solution acceptable to us and to our allies.
...
More -
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ric ... sages/2289

Blessed are we in the free world once more with the supreme, paramount leadership of Secretary Condoleezza Rice.

As Supreme Allied Condista, I have published for the consideration of Secretary Rice and others -

A STRATEGY TO DEFEAT ISIS
and
TAKE RAQQA BATTLEPLAN

http://supremealliedcondista.newsvine.com/

In all such matters, I defer to Secretary Rice. My plans can be ignored, accepted, amended or rejected by Secretary Rice at her pleasure.

Without Secretary Rice's explicit order to implement my plans, they remain, for the time being, simply plans - of interest perhaps, but not of any consequence.

[Order of pheonix]

snipperoni

The basic summary of this plan is to declare war on the entire middle east all at once. This isn't going to work. NATO power is stronk but this is beyond even them. Also, do you know what happens when you replace a regime? There is a new regime. This has been tried before multiple times, why will it work now?
Also, its hard to dispel claims that western powers are only in it for the oil when your plan literally involves privateering oil tankers. Obviously the regimes aren't going to sell to America in that case, and that just screws things up even more. Plus Russia isn't going to just sit there as you bomb their allies and cut off oil. This is more than enough to start a war.
Separating Iraq and Syria into religious exclusive zones is complicated, will force millions out of their homeland, and runs the risk of an isreal/pakistan situation.

[Republic of the Cristo]

I have created a simulation where we may just discover the answer of how to solve ISIS

viewtopic.php?f=31&t=356814

( It is a War on Terror RP, but you can play as or against ISIS in it so it kind of pertains to a solution)

[Seraven]

The US has ended the "train" part of the train and equip program. Now they're just sending equipment to "vetted" rebel commanders in the field. If the original plan was a disaster, how is this going to be any better? Only the commanders will receive any form of training or background checks, making the US-backed groups less effective than they are now. And because the foot soldiers won't be vetted, the groups could potentially be infiltrated by the very people they're trying to fight.

Why they think this will work is out of my mind.

[Zakuvia]

The US has ended the "train" part of the train and equip program. Now they're just sending equipment to "vetted" rebel commanders in the field. If the original plan was a disaster, how is this going to be any better? Only the commanders will receive any form of training or background checks, making the US-backed groups less effective than they are now. And because the foot soldiers won't be vetted, the groups could potentially be infiltrated by the very people they're trying to fight.

Why they think this will work is out of my mind.

Hey, sending money and guns to the Mujahideen worked to kick the commies out of Afghanistan, didn't it ? That didn't have any nasty blowback later on, did it? Oh wait...

[Supreme Allied Commander]

snipperoni

The basic summary of this plan

Which "plan"? My plan?

STRATEGY TO DEFEAT ISIS by Supreme Allied Condista

1) Overall strategy - the West needs to apply the Bush Doctrine to all state-sponsors of terrorism - Saudi Arabia & other Gulf monarchies, Pakistan, Yemen, Egypt, Sudan, Iran and other dictator states - regime change them all.

2) Use stand off techniques more robustly - such as seizing control over state-sponsor-of-terrorism satellite-TV broadcasting (often supplied to Arab and North African state broadcasters by European satellite TV companies) and turning that propaganda weapon around and using it to promote democratic revolution through-out the region.

3) Impose the West as sole agents for all oil tanker export sales out of the Gulf. Seize all oil tankers exporting oil and sell the oil, depriving regimes of oil profits.

4) Now once you have an overall strategy in place, then you can look at specific military actions. Bombing prestige regime targets or threatening to if Al Baghdadi's head is not on a spike within 48 hours.

5) Partition Iraq & Syria. Iraq looks like it has to go three ways - Shia, Sunni & Kurds. If the 3 new states all want to join up together in an Iraq confederacy or union of some kind of their own free will, that's fine too.

6) Establish Western military bases in Iraq & Syria for training up the local armies. Better if we can supply them by sea or air rather than by long land routes which can have supply routes attacked by road side bombs and ambushes.

IMPLEMENTATION

So that's my plan but whom to trust to carry it through?

Well I don't trust anyone with my plan except myself, so I volunteer to be appointed NATO Supreme Allied Commander Europe (or Deputy SACEUR) to carry my plan through to victory in short order.

For my political superior, I want to report to Condoleezza Rice.

So please appoint Condi as NATO Secretary General (I don't know if she will accept this office or similar but NATO governments could ask her).

Anyway we need Condi, that's clear. So long as I report through Condi to the NATO North Atlantic Council, no problem.

The basic summary of this plan is to declare war on the entire middle east all at once.

Pakistan, Egypt and Sudan are not in the "middle east", so the geographical scope of the war we are in, whether we declare it or not, is wider. It is a Global War On Terror. But neither is it declaring war on the "entire" middle east or the "entire" globe. Most of the people in the middle east or on the globe we are not are war with. Otherwise we'd be at war with ourselves. The war is only against the enemy wherever the enemy is to be found.

This isn't going to work. NATO power is stronk but this is beyond even them.

NATO is the obvious organisational core, but we have already included other nations from the United Nations in the ad-hoc US-led coalition against ISIS.

However, NATO, the United Nations and ad-hoc US-led coalitions are only as strong as their leadership. To be blunt, defeating ISIS is beyond the leaders officially in post of all of those organisation.

We need to streamline Secretary Rice's leadership of the world by formalising her behind-the-scenes unofficial "supreme paramount leader" role by appointing her formally to an appropriate office, whether as NATO Secretary General, UN Secretary General or similar.

Even Secretary Rice resuming her role as US Secretary of State or National Security Advisor would be an improvement on the diffuse leadership-by-remote-control she exerts now.

The leadership of Condoleezza Rice is strong enough to win the war against ISIS and the GWOT, especially easily if she will graciously appoint me as her top military commander, which would be the equivalent of a 5-star general command.

Also, do you know what happens when you replace a regime? There is a new regime.

Really? So you are telling me that Angela Merkel is not a Nazi? Well that's nice to know.

This has been tried before multiple times, why will it work now?

It didn't work in Afghanistan because the enemy was Pakistan. It didn't work in Iraq because other enemy state-sponsors of terrorism decided to use their terrorist proxies to wreck Iraq. It will work if we regime-change all state-sponsors of terrorism.

It's like fighting a fire when it does no good to put the fire out only in one building but leave fire burning in the neighbouring building because the fire will spread back in. You have to put the fire out in all buildings.

Also, its hard to dispel claims that western powers are only in it for the oil when your plan literally involves privateering oil tankers.

It is impossible to dispel any lie if we leave satellite broadcasting in enemy hands. So don't. Seize it, as per point 2) of my plan.

Obviously the regimes aren't going to sell to America in that case, and that just screws things up even more.

Then they won't sell to anyone because we can prevent all exports, which will impose a heavier cost on Gulf states than it will on their customers who can buy elsewhere.

Plus Russia isn't going to just sit there as you bomb their allies and cut off oil.

On the contrary, the Carter doctrine demanded that Soviets keep out of the Gulf and that will apply to Russia too.

This is more than enough to start a war.

We are already at war, but not against Russia.

Separating Iraq and Syria into religious exclusive zones is complicated, will force millions out of their homeland, and runs the risk of an isreal/pakistan situation.

My plan doesn't call for "exclusive" zones, nor would it "force millions out of their homeland". What my plan proposes is not moving people but defining state boundaries for a partition of Syria and Iraq.

There's no reason why a democratic secular state comprised mostly of Sunnis couldn't serve the needs of minority religions.

The bigger risk is all sides in the conflict continuing the Iraq / Syria war indefinitely in the deluded hope that they can win all territory now held by the other side.

[Seraven]

Wait, are you telling us that Merkel is same with Nazi? Because it's not. Merkel didn't ordered Germany to swallows all of the nations in Europe to be part of Germany. She didn't ordered genocides. And she's not fascist.

[Trumpostan]

Than again it is Islam that we are talking about, which was always backward. So it is not unusuall from the Sunnis in engaging in barbaric destroying of cultural sites instead of finding different solutions.

Maybe their ancient buildings aree not worths of protecting it since there are more precious cultures like the European ones.

Islam is no more backward than christianity. The only difference is that christianity as a variant of judaism absorbed European/Greco/Roman traditions rather than absorbing Arabic traditions like islam did. Nearly all 'christian majority' countries have functional governments that are fairly progressive and have succesfully limited the role of the church. 'Islamic majority' countries have in many cases not-so-functional governments so regional tribal and religious leaders have been able to fill that void, making it seem on the surface that the followers of one religion are more radical than the others. Had the religions been reversed, we'd be talking about 'Christianic State' and 'radical christians perverting the supposed peaceful message of the bible'.

The problem is not religious. The religious element is a consequence. The problem is in good governance, which is lacking in many countries that are 'majority islamic'. The two religions are effectively based on the same backward local superstitions from the Middle East.

[New Genoa]

Syria Kurds 'razing villages seized from IS' - Amnesty

Syria conflict: Shells hit Russian embassy compound

[New Benian Republic]

Wait, are you telling us that Merkel is same with Nazi? Because it's not. Merkel didn't ordered Germany to swallows all of the nations in Europe to be part of Germany. She didn't ordered genocides. And she's not fascist.

Germans were National Socialists not Fascists.

[Jochistan]

Wait, are you telling us that Merkel is same with Nazi? Because it's not. Merkel didn't ordered Germany to swallows all of the nations in Europe to be part of Germany. She didn't ordered genocides. And she's not fascist.

Ha! Everyone damn wishes she was, most likely.

[Supreme Allied Commander]

Wait, are you telling us that Merkel is same with Nazi?

No I am not telling you that.

Angel Merkel is not a Nazi obviously and modern democratic Germany is a good example of how regime change works, which is why I quoted that example so that everyone would roll their eyes at Order of phoenix's fears about a "new regime" after regime change.


Angela Merkel and Condoleezza Rice.

[Washington Resistance Army]

The basic summary of this plan

Which "plan"? My plan?

[blocktext]STRATEGY TO DEFEAT ISIS by Supreme Allied Condista

1) Overall strategy - the West needs to apply the Bush Doctrine to all state-sponsors of terrorism - Saudi Arabia & other Gulf monarchies, Pakistan, Yemen, Egypt, Sudan, Iran and other dictator states - regime change them all.

Yeah, that bit alone establishes you have no clue what you're talking about.

[Seraven]

Which "plan"? My plan?

[blocktext]STRATEGY TO DEFEAT ISIS by Supreme Allied Condista

1) Overall strategy - the West needs to apply the Bush Doctrine to all state-sponsors of terrorism - Saudi Arabia & other Gulf monarchies, Pakistan, Yemen, Egypt, Sudan, Iran and other dictator states - regime change them all.

Yeah, that bit alone establishes you have no clue what you're talking about.

Maybe he wants them to turn into Iraq. You know, regime change, and destroy the country in the process...

[Washington Resistance Army]

Yeah, that bit alone establishes you have no clue what you're talking about.

Maybe he wants them to turn into Iraq. You know, regime change, and destroy the country in the process...

Regime change every country on the planet, what could possibly go wrong?

[Trumpostan]

Maybe he wants them to turn into Iraq. You know, regime change, and destroy the country in the process...

Regime change every country on the planet, what could possibly go wrong?

Why don't we just have that nuclear war and get it over with. The earth would eventually recover from the damage wreaked by the surface nuisance that is mankind.

And as for that guy who thinks that Condoleeza Rice is the answer... I point you to the W administrations, and Rice was part of the team that basically screwed everything up.

[Salus Maior]

Why don't we just have that nuclear war and get it over with. The earth would eventually recover from the damage wreaked by the surface nuisance that is mankind.

Or it will just create the circumstances leading up to the war between Caesar's Legion and the New California Republic. War never changes...

[Ganos Lao]

Reports are coming in from Iraq and Syria, indicating that civilians are turning pro-Russian, adorning town buildings and the like with images of Putin, viewing Russia as essentially more decisive than the United States.

[Minoa]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34511134

This is now so messed up: “This for That” revenge is making the situation a whole lot worse.

No, let me try to negotiate a solution to the Syria crisis – where has the idea of a unity government gone so that we can facilitate a peaceful transition?

[Uxupox]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34511134

This is now so messed up: “This for That” revenge is making the situation a whole lot worse.

No, let me try to negotiate a solution to the Syria crisis – where has the idea of a unity government gone so that we can facilitate a peaceful transition?

It's a mess huge fucking proportions.

[Eskya]

Islamic countries will always remain violent and backward. We can't help them. They elect leaders fitting their backward culture. The only thing we should be concerned with right now is containing them and make sure they can't get their hands on WMDs.

[Trumpostan]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34511134

This is now so messed up: “This for That” revenge is making the situation a whole lot worse.

No, let me try to negotiate a solution to the Syria crisis – where has the idea of a unity government gone so that we can facilitate a peaceful transition?

Just as long as you're not aboard with the illegal approach of supporting rebel groups with the idea of them replacing Assad, a violation of the UN charter the west in general and the US in particular is actively pursueing.
For those who attacked Putin on his violations of international law they don't seem to care any more for it than Putin does, which is to say not at all.

Western support for human rights, democracy and all that is not what it seems.

Sure, the west supports human rights and democracy, but not at the expense of losing access to oil supplies. The Gulf State dictatorships are just fine, as is Equatorial Guinee and Brunei Darussalam.
Throughout the cold war, any dictator could commit massive human rights crimes as long as they said the magic words "I hate communism". How many right wing dictatorships in Latin America were imposed by the west, and supported with advice in torture techniques (Brazil) or death squads (Central America)?

The western world has a vested interest in keeping the disproportional claims on global natural resources, because without the disproportional claim on them the western world would have to give up a significant chunk of wealth. And yes, the western world is disproportionately rich because it keeps the rest of the world as artificially poor as possible. Their disproportional poverty is a prerequisite for our disproportional wealth. Resources simply aren't unlimited.

Its a cynical view, I know but that's how I see it. Now all across the Middle East and Africa you see these conflicts arising from people who are desperate because they have limited or no opportunities at home and cannot vote for serious change because the west bribes the local leaders to get access to the natural resources and the west keeps propping up all sorts of autocrats and authoritarian leaders in order to keep a semblance of 'stability'. Look at all those artificial countries in Africa and the Middle East, there is hardly a nation among them. And you can't vote for change if all these countries have 'unity' governments, which is usually the western world financing a few political leaders, bribing them to form such a government. Those governments never last.

Islamic State preys on these people, luring them in with promises of a glorious retread back to the days of the Caliphate. And if you got nothing to lose...