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North Carolina Passes "Anti-LGBT" Bill

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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bill?

yeh
217
29%
neh
431
58%
weh?
42
6%
eh
52
7%
 
Total votes : 742

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Northern Freikur
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Postby Northern Freikur » Wed May 18, 2016 5:41 pm

The V O I D wrote:
Northern Freikur wrote:
If the majority doesn't want it, It doesn't happen. That is how Democracy works.

Don't compare Gender to Race. If I tried to Identify as anything but White, I'd be lynched.


Yes, but according to the 61% majority that says gay marriage should be legalized and your logic, we should legalize gay marriage. And 54% majority advocates for gays being given the right to adopt. The majority of people are liberal pretty much everywhere.

And, we are comparing LGBTs to race because racism and homophobia/transphobia are the same; discrimination/hatred of a group of people just for being born the way they are. You can help your sexuality and gender identity just about as much as you can your skin color.


Race:
each of the major divisions of humankind, having distinct physical characteristics.
"people of all races, colors, and creeds"
synonyms: ethnic group, racial type, origin, ethnic origin, color
"students of many different races"
a group of people sharing the same culture, history, language, etc.; an ethnic group.
"we Scots were a bloodthirsty race then"
synonyms: ethnic group, racial type, origin, ethnic origin, color More
the fact or condition of belonging to a racial division or group; the qualities or characteristics associated with this.
"people of mixed race"
synonyms: ethnic group, racial type, origin, ethnic origin, color
"students of many different races"
a group or set of people or things with a common feature or features.
"some male firefighters still regarded women as a race apart"
BIOLOGY
a population within a species that is distinct in some way, especially a subspecies.
"people have killed so many tigers that two races are probably extinct"
(in nontechnical use) each of the major divisions of living creatures.
"a member of the human race"
literary
a group of people descended from a common ancestor.
"a prince of the race of Solomon"
archaic
ancestry.
"two coursers of ethereal race"

Skin Color:

The color of your skin...

(How 'bout them definitions... 8) )
Even when I contradict myself, I am right.

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Grenartia
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Postby Grenartia » Wed May 18, 2016 5:43 pm

Northern Freikur wrote:I'm an American (although, I'm getting farther and farther from being proud of it), and I have completely lost faith in our public schooling. This shouldn't even be a debate. 1. The Men's room is for those with "outdoor plumbing", the Women's room is for those with "Indoor Plumbing".

If I ever decide to have children, far be it from me to send them to public school here in America, the quality of education sucks, bathroom signs no longer matter, and 2. they've all got a leftist bias (or at least they do in California). I'd either opt for online (which is my first choice), or just move out.

I also encourage any parents out there to do the same.


1. Who gives a fuck about the safety of trans people, amirite?

2. Reality has a well-known liberal bias, as we all know. So really, the schools are quite centrist when it comes to reality.

Northern Freikur wrote:
Grenartia wrote:
Honestly, I feel that its only valid as a gender if it can be explained purely in relation to the binary. I say this reluctantly, but those are our points of reference for gender. Even if you explain it in terms of more well-known non-binary identities, you're still explaining it in terms of the binary, just indirectly.


1. What if one wants to identify as both? Would you take away their ability to do so?

2. Take this as far as identifying as an attack helicopter. It suddenly becomes ridiculous.

3. Locker rooms should be separated by 4. Biological gender.


1. Read. My. Sig. Then as yourself why I, of all people, would call for something which oppresses people outside the gender binary.

2. What I said was meant as a guideline to distinguish between legitimate identities and transphobic "jokes" like the attack helicopter meme.

3. So, you'd be perfectly fine with this guy in a women's locker room? After all, he was born with a vagina (and most transmen don't opt for bottom surgery due to its inadequacies), so he obviously belongs with fellow vagina owners.

Image

4. Gender isn't biological, its psychological.

Northern Freikur wrote:
The V O I D wrote:
Then they are that gender. Simple. A woman is a woman when she identifies as such. A man is a man when he identifies as such. It just so happens they were born with the wrong parts. Also, let me explain something: they've recently proven that transgender brains are different from non-transgender brains. Transgender brains, in the parts of their brain that allow for gender identification, are always the same size as the gender they identify with. For example; a male transgender [MtF] has the gender identification center of a female. And a female transgender [FtM] has the gender identification center of a male. Sexuality works similarly; the sexuality center varies dependent upon person's sexuality.

In other words, it's not a choice. It's a fundamental part of them. To make it even simpler: it's a woman's brain in a man's body, or a man's brain in a woman's body, and they want to fix that or get to as close as they can to fixing that. And disallowing them from using the correct bathroom [i.e. conforming with gender identity] is psychologically damaging, as it is essentially saying a woman must go into the men's room just because she has a penis.


Then, we can avoid the whole argument by doing it this way:

Men's Room

Both/Neither Room

Women's Room

It's a simple solution to a genuinely idiotic problem...


Good luck convincing your fellow conservatives to spend tax money on a 3rd restroom in every public building.

Northern Freikur wrote:
The V O I D wrote:
No, wrong. That's further segregating the transgenders and creating an "us/them" relationship. They need to use the restroom that conforms with their gender identity, or we need unisex bathrooms. Those options allow discrimination to disappear, and allow the transgender community the rights they deserve.


I'd rather let the larger group (Actual women) have rights.

And on the basis of "not hurting their feelings"...

1. 1944: young men were storming the beaches of Normandy, selflessly sacrificing everything for their country.

2. 2016: young people need a 'safe place' so as not to have their feelings hurt.

3. This whole debate is a first world problem. 4. TG's should just move on and use the room which matches their 'plumbing'.


1. And? This generation is capable of the same thing.

2. Non sequitur.

3. Fallacy of relative privation.

4. So you have no problem with us being beaten, raped, and/or killed? To say nothing of the fact that you want men in a women's locker room, all the while, screaming and hollering against transwomen in the same room? You make no sense whatsoever.
Last edited by Grenartia on Wed May 18, 2016 5:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Des-Bal
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Postby Des-Bal » Wed May 18, 2016 5:44 pm

The V O I D wrote:
No, there are also women sexual assault convicts out there. They would also likely try to rape FtM transgenders who had the transition and walked into the ladies' room with a penis because we forced them. That's why they should either use the bathroom of their identity in any case, especially when transition is done, or all bathrooms should be made unisex.


So our goal should be to separate the penises and vaginas? Because from what you're saying right now you just can't get them near each other without it being a rape fest.
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Neutraligon
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Postby Neutraligon » Wed May 18, 2016 5:44 pm

Northern Freikur wrote:
The V O I D wrote:
Yes, but according to the 61% majority that says gay marriage should be legalized and your logic, we should legalize gay marriage. And 54% majority advocates for gays being given the right to adopt. The majority of people are liberal pretty much everywhere.

And, we are comparing LGBTs to race because racism and homophobia/transphobia are the same; discrimination/hatred of a group of people just for being born the way they are. You can help your sexuality and gender identity just about as much as you can your skin color.


Race:
each of the major divisions of humankind, having distinct physical characteristics.
"people of all races, colors, and creeds"
synonyms: ethnic group, racial type, origin, ethnic origin, color
"students of many different races"
a group of people sharing the same culture, history, language, etc.; an ethnic group.
"we Scots were a bloodthirsty race then"
synonyms: ethnic group, racial type, origin, ethnic origin, color More
the fact or condition of belonging to a racial division or group; the qualities or characteristics associated with this.
"people of mixed race"
synonyms: ethnic group, racial type, origin, ethnic origin, color
"students of many different races"
a group or set of people or things with a common feature or features.
"some male firefighters still regarded women as a race apart"
BIOLOGY
a population within a species that is distinct in some way, especially a subspecies.
"people have killed so many tigers that two races are probably extinct"
(in nontechnical use) each of the major divisions of living creatures.
"a member of the human race"
literary
a group of people descended from a common ancestor.
"a prince of the race of Solomon"
archaic
ancestry.
"two coursers of ethereal race"

Skin Color:

The color of your skin...

(How 'bout them definitions... 8) )



Race has very little to do with biology, for that you want ethnicity. As has been mentioned previously gender does have something to do with biology, in specifics the biology of the brain. So again why should the two not be compared?
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The V O I D
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Postby The V O I D » Wed May 18, 2016 5:44 pm

Northern Freikur wrote:
The V O I D wrote:
Yes, but according to the 61% majority that says gay marriage should be legalized and your logic, we should legalize gay marriage. And 54% majority advocates for gays being given the right to adopt. The majority of people are liberal pretty much everywhere.

And, we are comparing LGBTs to race because racism and homophobia/transphobia are the same; discrimination/hatred of a group of people just for being born the way they are. You can help your sexuality and gender identity just about as much as you can your skin color.


-snip-


So, are you going to address the rest of my post, or ignore it? Like, the parts that said according to your logic, we should already have gays rights to marriage and adoption?

Also, how do you think we should solve the problem of discrimination against transgenders? Remember, "suck it up" isn't valid- that's still discriminatory and is damaging to them. Suggest something undamaging, and non-discriminatory.

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Neutraligon
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Postby Neutraligon » Wed May 18, 2016 5:45 pm

Des-Bal wrote:
The V O I D wrote:
No, there are also women sexual assault convicts out there. They would also likely try to rape FtM transgenders who had the transition and walked into the ladies' room with a penis because we forced them. That's why they should either use the bathroom of their identity in any case, especially when transition is done, or all bathrooms should be made unisex.


So our goal should be to separate the penises and vaginas? Because from what you're saying right now you just can't get them near each other without it being a rape fest.


Umm, I am pretty sure the Void has no desire to do either and I am not sure how you got that from their chain of comments.
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The V O I D
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Postby The V O I D » Wed May 18, 2016 5:46 pm

Des-Bal wrote:
The V O I D wrote:
No, there are also women sexual assault convicts out there. They would also likely try to rape FtM transgenders who had the transition and walked into the ladies' room with a penis because we forced them. That's why they should either use the bathroom of their identity in any case, especially when transition is done, or all bathrooms should be made unisex.


So our goal should be to separate the penises and vaginas? Because from what you're saying right now you just can't get them near each other without it being a rape fest.


I'd prefer unisex bathrooms, but if we can't do that, then we must allow people to use bathrooms of their gender identity. Even if they haven't transitioned yet. What's so hard to get?

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The V O I D
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Postby The V O I D » Wed May 18, 2016 5:47 pm

Neutraligon wrote:
Des-Bal wrote:
So our goal should be to separate the penises and vaginas? Because from what you're saying right now you just can't get them near each other without it being a rape fest.


Umm, I am pretty sure the Void has no desire to do either and I am not sure how you got that from their his chain of comments.


FTFY.

I am both biologically and in gender, a male. I just believe in the right of others to have their gender identities respected, regardless of biological sex.

But, thanks for taking the precaution and going with "their."

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Grenartia
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Postby Grenartia » Wed May 18, 2016 5:48 pm

Northern Freikur wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:
Considering trans people have been assaulted and severely beaten or killed for their restroom choice, you are wrong about it being a first world problem. Second and they had it worse is not a good reason to ignore civil rights issues. Finally, when we desegregated based on race the white majority did not want that. How is desegregating based on gender/sex any different?


If the majority doesn't want it, It doesn't happen. That is how Democracy works.

Don't compare Gender to Race. If I tried to Identify as anything but White, I'd be lynched.


So if the will of the majority justifies anything, does that mean you'd be perfectly ok if I held a referendum to enslave you and your family?
Impeach Humanity, Legalize Death Stars, Life is TheftWis/Gren 2016 Something all cisgender allies should start doing. I wear teal, blue & pink for Swith. ⚧Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧
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Wallenburg
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Postby Wallenburg » Wed May 18, 2016 5:48 pm

Northern Freikur wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
And to hell with the possibility that they might get assaulted or murdered.


Murder and Assault are inevitable, And besides, I'm concerned about the same happening more frequently to Women.

"Guys, let's be honest, it was inevitable. He's a fucking darkie, what did he think was gonna happen?"
"Guys, let's be honest, it was inevitable. He's fucking Jewish, what did he think was gonna happen?"
"Guys, let's be honest, it was inevitable. He's a fucking gay, what did he think was gonna happen?"
"Guys, let's be honest, it was inevitable. He's a fucking trans, what did he think was gonna happen?"
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Northern Freikur
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Postby Northern Freikur » Wed May 18, 2016 5:48 pm

Ugh...
All of these liberals are giving me the willies :?

Later y'all

(Anti southern comment in 3... 2...)
Even when I contradict myself, I am right.

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Des-Bal
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Postby Des-Bal » Wed May 18, 2016 5:49 pm

Neutraligon wrote:
Umm, I am pretty sure the Void has no desire to do either and I am not sure how you got that from their chain of comments.


If you get a penis near the women's room or a vagina near the men's room the inevitable result is rape. That's the argument I'm hearing in favor for using the bathroom you most identify with.

The V O I D wrote:I'd prefer unisex bathrooms, but if we can't do that, then we must allow people to use bathrooms of their gender identity. Even if they haven't transitioned yet. What's so hard to get?

Two parts. The part where you are contemplating a huge safety risk in one scenario and not in the other and the part where the threat of rape only exists after you've transitioned.
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Neutraligon
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Postby Neutraligon » Wed May 18, 2016 5:49 pm

The V O I D wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:
Umm, I am pretty sure the Void has no desire to do either and I am not sure how you got that from their his chain of comments.


FTFY.

I am both biologically and in gender, a male. I just believe in the right of others to have their gender identities respected, regardless of biological sex.

But, thanks for taking the precaution and going with "their."


Sorry I tend to go their when I am not certain, as it is the only gender neutral singular third person pronoun that makes any sense (it being of course very rude).
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Grenartia
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Postby Grenartia » Wed May 18, 2016 5:50 pm

Northern Freikur wrote:Ugh...
All of these liberals are giving me the willies :?

Later y'all

(Anti southern comment in 3... 2...)


Nice persecution complex you got there.
Impeach Humanity, Legalize Death Stars, Life is TheftWis/Gren 2016 Something all cisgender allies should start doing. I wear teal, blue & pink for Swith. ⚧Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧
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I'm a pansexual Androgyne. Also a Christian.
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Northern Freikur
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Postby Northern Freikur » Wed May 18, 2016 5:50 pm

Wallenburg wrote:
Northern Freikur wrote:
Murder and Assault are inevitable, And besides, I'm concerned about the same happening more frequently to Women.

"Guys, let's be honest, it was inevitable. He's a ****ing darkie, what did he think was gonna happen?"
"Guys, let's be honest, it was inevitable. He's ****ing Jewish, what did he think was gonna happen?"
"Guys, let's be honest, it was inevitable. He's a ****ing gay, what did he think was gonna happen?"
"Guys, let's be honest, it was inevitable. He's a ****ing trans, what did he think was gonna happen?"


Crime extends beyond race my friend. I'm not saying that-

Aw never mind, Someone is going to just strawman my argument again...
Even when I contradict myself, I am right.

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Wallenburg
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Postby Wallenburg » Wed May 18, 2016 5:51 pm

Northern Freikur wrote:Ugh...
All of these liberals are giving me the willies :?

Flamebaiting?
Later y'all

(Anti southern comment in 3... 2...)

Umm....what?

Image
PROFESSIONAL CRITIC OF ALL THINGS GENSEC
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Neutraligon
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Postby Neutraligon » Wed May 18, 2016 5:51 pm

Des-Bal wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:
Umm, I am pretty sure the Void has no desire to do either and I am not sure how you got that from their chain of comments.


If you get a penis near the women's room or a vagina near the men's room the inevitable result is rape. That's the argument I'm hearing in favor for using the bathroom you most identify with.

The V O I D wrote:I'd prefer unisex bathrooms, but if we can't do that, then we must allow people to use bathrooms of their gender identity. Even if they haven't transitioned yet. What's so hard to get?

Two parts. The part where you are contemplating a huge safety risk in one scenario and not in the other and the part where the threat of rape only exists after you've transitioned.



Umm, that is not the argument I am hearing at all. That particular response was talking about how women are not the only one in danger of being raped (for some reason people tend to focus on mtf in the restroom). No one said the threat only existed after they transitioned. I think you are reading stuff into these posts that do not exist.
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Wallenburg
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Postby Wallenburg » Wed May 18, 2016 5:52 pm

Northern Freikur wrote:
Wallenburg wrote:"Guys, let's be honest, it was inevitable. He's a ****ing darkie, what did he think was gonna happen?"
"Guys, let's be honest, it was inevitable. He's ****ing Jewish, what did he think was gonna happen?"
"Guys, let's be honest, it was inevitable. He's a ****ing gay, what did he think was gonna happen?"
"Guys, let's be honest, it was inevitable. He's a ****ing trans, what did he think was gonna happen?"

Crime extends beyond race my friend.

Where did I say otherwise?
I'm not saying that-

Then exactly what are you saying?
Aw never mind, Someone is going to just strawman my argument again...

I didn't strawman you. I made an analogy. Three analogies, actually.
PROFESSIONAL CRITIC OF ALL THINGS GENSEC
There never has been, nor will there ever be, such thing as a wallenburger.
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The V O I D
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Postby The V O I D » Wed May 18, 2016 5:52 pm

Neutraligon wrote:
The V O I D wrote:
FTFY.

I am both biologically and in gender, a male. I just believe in the right of others to have their gender identities respected, regardless of biological sex.

But, thanks for taking the precaution and going with "their."


Sorry I tend to go their when I am not certain, as it is the only gender neutral singular third person pronoun that makes any sense (it being of course very rude).


Oh, sometimes in the past I had people refer to me as 'it.' But that's when I was a bit more paranoid and didn't even want to confirm whether or not I was human.

Good times. But, yeah, thanks anyways.

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The V O I D
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Postby The V O I D » Wed May 18, 2016 5:53 pm

Northern Freikur wrote:Ugh...
All of these liberals are giving me the willies :?

Later y'all

(Anti southern comment in 3... 2...)


All we're doing is advocating for rights. What's wrong with that?

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Wallenburg
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Postby Wallenburg » Wed May 18, 2016 5:54 pm

Des-Bal wrote:If you get a penis near the women's room or a vagina near the men's room the inevitable result is rape. That's the argument I'm hearing in favor for using the bathroom you most identify with.

That is a terrible argument if that's the one you want to use. Hell, I ended up in the women's bathroom once purely by accident. Zero rapes.
PROFESSIONAL CRITIC OF ALL THINGS GENSEC
There never has been, nor will there ever be, such thing as a wallenburger.
grestin went through the MKULTRA program and he has more of a free will than wallenburg does - Imperial Idaho
PRO: GOOD || ANTI: BAD
Minister of World Assembly Affairs for The East Pacific

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Neutraligon
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Postby Neutraligon » Wed May 18, 2016 5:54 pm

Northern Freikur wrote:
Wallenburg wrote:"Guys, let's be honest, it was inevitable. He's a ****ing darkie, what did he think was gonna happen?"
"Guys, let's be honest, it was inevitable. He's ****ing Jewish, what did he think was gonna happen?"
"Guys, let's be honest, it was inevitable. He's a ****ing gay, what did he think was gonna happen?"
"Guys, let's be honest, it was inevitable. He's a ****ing trans, what did he think was gonna happen?"


Crime extends beyond race my friend. I'm not saying that-

Aw never mind, Someone is going to just strawman my argument again...


You have claimed that the choice of restroom should be based on plumbing. We are trying to get you to justify that. We are comparing gender to sex as they are very similar situations. No one claimed that crime does not "extend beyond race." Your argument in this particular case was that nothing should be done about transgender people being raped or assaulted due to their restroom choice because people will be raped and assaulted anyway, or at least that is how your argument sounded.

Wallenburg wrote:
Des-Bal wrote:If you get a penis near the women's room or a vagina near the men's room the inevitable result is rape. That's the argument I'm hearing in favor for using the bathroom you most identify with.

That is a terrible argument if that's the one you want to use. Hell, I ended up in the women's bathroom once purely by accident. Zero rapes.


And Des-Bal was not making that argument...Des-Bal was claiming someone else was basically making that claim, which ironically enough, I do not think that person was actually making. I think Des-Bal was misinterpreting what The Void was saying.
Last edited by Neutraligon on Wed May 18, 2016 5:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Noraika
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Postby Noraika » Wed May 18, 2016 6:00 pm

Northern Freikur wrote:
Wallenburg wrote:"Guys, let's be honest, it was inevitable. He's a ****ing darkie, what did he think was gonna happen?"
"Guys, let's be honest, it was inevitable. He's ****ing Jewish, what did he think was gonna happen?"
"Guys, let's be honest, it was inevitable. He's a ****ing gay, what did he think was gonna happen?"
"Guys, let's be honest, it was inevitable. He's a ****ing trans, what did he think was gonna happen?"


Crime extends beyond race my friend. I'm not saying that-

Aw never mind, Someone is going to just strawman my argument again...

The problem with that is you had no argument to strawman really. You just essentially just made your claims and just ran off as a "take my word for it ,despite the fact you offered no facts or support for your claims. That being said, despite all evidence going against you, I ssuppose ought to simply take your word over well established facts eh?
Last edited by Noraika on Wed May 18, 2016 6:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Neutraligon
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Posts: 32367
Founded: Oct 01, 2011
New York Times Democracy

Postby Neutraligon » Wed May 18, 2016 6:01 pm

Noraika wrote:
Northern Freikur wrote:
Crime extends beyond race my friend. I'm not saying that-

Aw never mind, Someone is going to just strawman my argument again...

The problem with that is you had no argument to strawman really. You just essentially just made your claims and just ran off as a "take my word for it ,despite the fact you offered no facts or support for your claims. That being said, despite all evidence going against you, I spider we ought to simply take your word over well established facts eh?


??? How does one spider? :p
If you want to call me by a nickname, call me Gon...or NS Batman.
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Northern Freikur
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Posts: 1071
Founded: Oct 04, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Northern Freikur » Wed May 18, 2016 6:01 pm

Grenartia wrote:
Northern Freikur wrote:I'm an American (although, I'm getting farther and farther from being proud of it), and I have completely lost faith in our public schooling. This shouldn't even be a debate. 1. The Men's room is for those with "outdoor plumbing", the Women's room is for those with "Indoor Plumbing".

If I ever decide to have children, far be it from me to send them to public school here in America, the quality of education sucks, bathroom signs no longer matter, and 2. they've all got a leftist bias (or at least they do in California). I'd either opt for online (which is my first choice), or just move out.

I also encourage any parents out there to do the same.


1. Who gives a fuck about the safety of trans people, amirite?

2. Reality has a well-known liberal bias, as we all know. So really, the schools are quite centrist when it comes to reality.

Northern Freikur wrote:
1. What if one wants to identify as both? Would you take away their ability to do so?

2. Take this as far as identifying as an attack helicopter. It suddenly becomes ridiculous.

3. Locker rooms should be separated by 4. Biological gender.


1. Read. My. Sig. Then as yourself why I, of all people, would call for something which oppresses people outside the gender binary.

2. What I said was meant as a guideline to distinguish between legitimate identities and transphobic "jokes" like the attack helicopter meme.

3. So, you'd be perfectly fine with this guy in a women's locker room? After all, he was born with a vagina (and most transmen don't opt for bottom surgery due to its inadequacies), so he obviously belongs with fellow vagina owners.

Image

4. Gender isn't biological, its psychological.

Northern Freikur wrote:
Then, we can avoid the whole argument by doing it this way:

Men's Room

Both/Neither Room

Women's Room

It's a simple solution to a genuinely idiotic problem...


Good luck convincing your fellow conservatives to spend tax money on a 3rd restroom in every public building.

Northern Freikur wrote:
I'd rather let the larger group (Actual women) have rights.

And on the basis of "not hurting their feelings"...

1. 1944: young men were storming the beaches of Normandy, selflessly sacrificing everything for their country.

2. 2016: young people need a 'safe place' so as not to have their feelings hurt.

3. This whole debate is a first world problem. 4. TG's should just move on and use the room which matches their 'plumbing'.


1. And? This generation is capable of the same thing.

2. Non sequitur.

3. Fallacy of relative privation.

4. So you have no problem with us being beaten, raped, and/or killed? To say nothing of the fact that you want men in a women's locker room, all the while, screaming and hollering against transwomen in the same room? You make no sense whatsoever.


Allow me to say that you all keep committing Strawman Fallacies.

I never have supported locker room idea.

I'm done with this. People keep misinterpreting my posts, and I see that the only way to preserve common sense, is to drive a rift between it and leftism.

Ok, Now I'm off...

8)
Even when I contradict myself, I am right.

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