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North Carolina Passes "Anti-LGBT" Bill

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bill?

yeh
217
29%
neh
431
58%
weh?
42
6%
eh
52
7%
 
Total votes : 742

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Northern Freikur
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Postby Northern Freikur » Wed May 18, 2016 5:21 pm

The V O I D wrote:
Northern Freikur wrote:
But what if one decides to identify as the gender opposite their biology, traits, and roles?


Then they are that gender. Simple. A woman is a woman when she identifies as such. A man is a man when he identifies as such. It just so happens they were born with the wrong parts. Also, let me explain something: they've recently proven that transgender brains are different from non-transgender brains. Transgender brains, in the parts of their brain that allow for gender identification, are always the same size as the gender they identify with. For example; a male transgender [MtF] has the gender identification center of a female. And a female transgender [FtM] has the gender identification center of a male. Sexuality works similarly; the sexuality center varies dependent upon person's sexuality.

In other words, it's not a choice. It's a fundamental part of them. To make it even simpler: it's a woman's brain in a man's body, or a man's brain in a woman's body, and they want to fix that or get to as close as they can to fixing that. And disallowing them from using the correct bathroom [i.e. conforming with gender identity] is psychologically damaging, as it is essentially saying a woman must go into the men's room just because she has a penis.


Then, we can avoid the whole argument by doing it this way:

Men's Room

Both/Neither Room

Women's Room

It's a simple solution to a genuinely idiotic problem...
Even when I contradict myself, I am right.

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The V O I D
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Postby The V O I D » Wed May 18, 2016 5:23 pm

Des-Bal wrote:
The V O I D wrote:I wasn't talking about biological sex. The person was born biologically male, but got a transition surgery because they identified as female, and they now have lady parts. That's what I was referring to: are you going to force a woman in that situation into the men's room because she used to have a penis?

Also, gender identity is important because, you know, it's who the person is. They just happen to have the wrong parts [assuming they didn't get transitioned].


You specifically are, you're saying determining room by biological sex rather than "plumbing." Why not?

If the separation is meaningless then I fail to see how the criteria for the separation can rise above meaniniglessness.


You're not understanding. In terms of being transgender, the woman I refer to was born a man, with a penis. She had facial hair, and a masculine appearance; all of that sort of thing. She was completely, biologically male. But then she transitioned and took hormones and shaved. Now she looks somewhat feminine, has lady parts [i.e. a vagina and such], as well as being artificially-made female to conform with her gender identity.

Are you going to force her into the men's room because she was a man?

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The V O I D
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Postby The V O I D » Wed May 18, 2016 5:24 pm

Northern Freikur wrote:
The V O I D wrote:
Then they are that gender. Simple. A woman is a woman when she identifies as such. A man is a man when he identifies as such. It just so happens they were born with the wrong parts. Also, let me explain something: they've recently proven that transgender brains are different from non-transgender brains. Transgender brains, in the parts of their brain that allow for gender identification, are always the same size as the gender they identify with. For example; a male transgender [MtF] has the gender identification center of a female. And a female transgender [FtM] has the gender identification center of a male. Sexuality works similarly; the sexuality center varies dependent upon person's sexuality.

In other words, it's not a choice. It's a fundamental part of them. To make it even simpler: it's a woman's brain in a man's body, or a man's brain in a woman's body, and they want to fix that or get to as close as they can to fixing that. And disallowing them from using the correct bathroom [i.e. conforming with gender identity] is psychologically damaging, as it is essentially saying a woman must go into the men's room just because she has a penis.


Then, we can avoid the whole argument by doing it this way:

Men's Room

Both/Neither Room

Women's Room

It's a simple solution to a genuinely idiotic problem...


No, wrong. That's further segregating the transgenders and creating an "us/them" relationship. They need to use the restroom that conforms with their gender identity, or we need unisex bathrooms. Those options allow discrimination to disappear, and allow the transgender community the rights they deserve.

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Noraika
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Postby Noraika » Wed May 18, 2016 5:25 pm

The V O I D wrote:
Northern Freikur wrote:
More justification from the Authoritarian Left...

It happened in Rome, It will happen here as well. If you don't understand what I mean, then you were never intended to understand it.


You're obviously ultraconservative. I advocate for giving people rights. You advocate they never get rights. Those are the facts as I understand them, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong and you want to allow for transgenders to use the correct bathroom [conform with their gender identity].

It should also be mentioned that transgender individuals have been using the accommodations befitting their gender identity for decades already, and this is only an issue because conservative law-makers are riling up people about an imagined 'threat to bathroom safety' when numerous local governments, states, and indeed other countries have all had laws which permit transgender individuals use the proper facilities, in accordance to their gender identity, with some having such for almost two decades now, and them finding that the fears and threats the conservative law-makers rant about are entirely unfounded.

There is no credibility to it, and the question of the existence of gender identity, and transgender individuals existing, is one that was settled long ago by the medical community through their intensive research and study into the topic.

The V O I D wrote:
Northern Freikur wrote:Then, we can avoid the whole argument by doing it this way:

Men's Room

Both/Neither Room

Women's Room

It's a simple solution to a genuinely idiotic problem...


No, wrong. That's further segregating the transgenders and creating an "us/them" relationship. They need to use the restroom that conforms with their gender identity, or we need unisex bathrooms. Those options allow discrimination to disappear, and allow the transgender community the rights they deserve.

Ahhh, the good old 'separate but equal' idea. Has worked so well in the past. :roll:
Last edited by Noraika on Wed May 18, 2016 5:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Catochristoferson
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Postby Catochristoferson » Wed May 18, 2016 5:25 pm

The world needs more Gender-Neutral Bathrooms. Having 2 separate Bathrooms for genders is technically apartheid.
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Neutraligon
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Postby Neutraligon » Wed May 18, 2016 5:25 pm

Northern Freikur wrote:
The V O I D wrote:
Then they are that gender. Simple. A woman is a woman when she identifies as such. A man is a man when he identifies as such. It just so happens they were born with the wrong parts. Also, let me explain something: they've recently proven that transgender brains are different from non-transgender brains. Transgender brains, in the parts of their brain that allow for gender identification, are always the same size as the gender they identify with. For example; a male transgender [MtF] has the gender identification center of a female. And a female transgender [FtM] has the gender identification center of a male. Sexuality works similarly; the sexuality center varies dependent upon person's sexuality.

In other words, it's not a choice. It's a fundamental part of them. To make it even simpler: it's a woman's brain in a man's body, or a man's brain in a woman's body, and they want to fix that or get to as close as they can to fixing that. And disallowing them from using the correct bathroom [i.e. conforming with gender identity] is psychologically damaging, as it is essentially saying a woman must go into the men's room just because she has a penis.


Then, we can avoid the whole argument by doing it this way:

Men's Room

Both/Neither Room

Women's Room

It's a simple solution to a genuinely idiotic problem...


Doesn't solve the issue in buildings that have only 2 restrooms and that would be grandfathered in. Also seems like a waste of money. In my opinion gendered restrooms in general seem like a waste of money as well.
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Des-Bal
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Postby Des-Bal » Wed May 18, 2016 5:26 pm

The V O I D wrote:
You're not understanding. In terms of being transgender, the woman I refer to was born a man, with a penis. She had facial hair, and a masculine appearance; all of that sort of thing. She was completely, biologically male. But then she transitioned and took hormones and shaved. Now she looks somewhat feminine, has lady parts [i.e. a vagina and such], as well as being artificially-made female to conform with her gender identity.

Are you going to force her into the men's room because she was a man?


I'm understanding completely. In this hypothetical you are talking about using biological sex, not present genital configuration, as the metric for which room they should be in. I don't know what you're reading that is causing confusion.

Why not?
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Northern Freikur
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Postby Northern Freikur » Wed May 18, 2016 5:28 pm

The V O I D wrote:
Northern Freikur wrote:
Then, we can avoid the whole argument by doing it this way:

Men's Room

Both/Neither Room

Women's Room

It's a simple solution to a genuinely idiotic problem...


No, wrong. That's further segregating the transgenders and creating an "us/them" relationship. They need to use the restroom that conforms with their gender identity, or we need unisex bathrooms. Those options allow discrimination to disappear, and allow the transgender community the rights they deserve.


I'd rather let the larger group (Actual women) have rights.

And on the basis of "not hurting their feelings"...

1944: young men were storming the beaches of Normandy, selflessly sacrificing everything for their country.

2016: young people need a 'safe place' so as not to have their feelings hurt.

This whole debate is a first world problem. TG's should just move on and use the room which matches their 'plumbing'.
Even when I contradict myself, I am right.

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Catochristoferson
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Founded: Dec 19, 2014
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Catochristoferson » Wed May 18, 2016 5:29 pm

Neutraligon wrote:
Northern Freikur wrote:
Then, we can avoid the whole argument by doing it this way:

Men's Room

Both/Neither Room

Women's Room

It's a simple solution to a genuinely idiotic problem...


Doesn't solve the issue in buildings that have only 2 restrooms and that would be grandfathered in. Also seems like a waste of money. In my opinion gendered restrooms in general seem like a waste of money as well.

I agree. Separating the genders is unfair, and is open to many problems. Which is why I would prefer all Bathrooms to be gender neutral.
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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Wed May 18, 2016 5:29 pm

Northern Freikur wrote:This whole debate is a first world problem. TG's should just move on and use the room which matches their 'plumbing'.


And to hell with the possibility that they might get assaulted or murdered.
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Northern Freikur
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Postby Northern Freikur » Wed May 18, 2016 5:32 pm

Vassenor wrote:
Northern Freikur wrote:This whole debate is a first world problem. TG's should just move on and use the room which matches their 'plumbing'.


And to hell with the possibility that they might get assaulted or murdered.


Murder and Assault are inevitable, And besides, I'm concerned about the same happening more frequently to Women.
Even when I contradict myself, I am right.

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Neutraligon
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Postby Neutraligon » Wed May 18, 2016 5:32 pm

Northern Freikur wrote:
The V O I D wrote:
No, wrong. That's further segregating the transgenders and creating an "us/them" relationship. They need to use the restroom that conforms with their gender identity, or we need unisex bathrooms. Those options allow discrimination to disappear, and allow the transgender community the rights they deserve.


I'd rather let the larger group (Actual women) have rights.

And on the basis of "not hurting their feelings"...

1944: young men were storming the beaches of Normandy, selflessly sacrificing everything for their country.

2016: young people need a 'safe place' so as not to have their feelings hurt.

This whole debate is a first world problem. TG's should just move on and use the room which matches their 'plumbing'.


Considering trans people have been assaulted and severely beaten or killed for their restroom choice, you are wrong about it being a first world problem. Second and they had it worse is not a good reason to ignore civil rights issues. Finally, when we desegregated based on race the white majority did not want that. How is desegregating based on gender/sex any different?
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The V O I D
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Postby The V O I D » Wed May 18, 2016 5:33 pm

Northern Freikur wrote:
The V O I D wrote:
No, wrong. That's further segregating the transgenders and creating an "us/them" relationship. They need to use the restroom that conforms with their gender identity, or we need unisex bathrooms. Those options allow discrimination to disappear, and allow the transgender community the rights they deserve.


I'd rather let the larger group (Actual women) have rights.

And on the basis of "not hurting their feelings"...

1944: young men were storming the beaches of Normandy, selflessly sacrificing everything for their country.

2016: young people need a 'safe place' so as not to have their feelings hurt.

This whole debate is a first world problem. TG's should just move on and use the room which matches their 'plumbing'.


No, they shouldn't. It's psychologically damaging, they risk assault and murder, and if they already transitioned because they were born men or women but go into the 'right room' anyways [i.e. the men's room with ladyparts], they can risk rape or other serious crime.

You're advocating for discrimination and crimes against humanity that are unspeakable.

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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Wed May 18, 2016 5:34 pm

Northern Freikur wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
And to hell with the possibility that they might get assaulted or murdered.


Murder and Assault are inevitable, And besides, I'm concerned about the same happening more frequently to Women.


Despite the fact that it's not actually happened before, and laws like this won't actually stop someone who wants to do it from doing it.
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The V O I D
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Postby The V O I D » Wed May 18, 2016 5:34 pm

Northern Freikur wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
And to hell with the possibility that they might get assaulted or murdered.


Murder and Assault are inevitable, And besides, I'm concerned about the same happening more frequently to Women.


Women aren't being discriminated against as severely as the LGBT community, especially transgenders.

But, since you seem to like to ignore the facts in favor of a worldview wherein transgenders just need to "suck it up" because obviously they don't risk death, rape, etc. or anything every time they go into the bathroom not matching their identity...

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Northern Freikur
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Postby Northern Freikur » Wed May 18, 2016 5:35 pm

Neutraligon wrote:
Northern Freikur wrote:
I'd rather let the larger group (Actual women) have rights.

And on the basis of "not hurting their feelings"...

1944: young men were storming the beaches of Normandy, selflessly sacrificing everything for their country.

2016: young people need a 'safe place' so as not to have their feelings hurt.

This whole debate is a first world problem. TG's should just move on and use the room which matches their 'plumbing'.


Considering trans people have been assaulted and severely beaten or killed for their restroom choice, you are wrong about it being a first world problem. Second and they had it worse is not a good reason to ignore civil rights issues. Finally, when we desegregated based on race the white majority did not want that. How is desegregating based on gender/sex any different?


If the majority doesn't want it, It doesn't happen. That is how Democracy works.

Don't compare Gender to Race. If I tried to Identify as anything but White, I'd be lynched.
Even when I contradict myself, I am right.

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Neutraligon
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Postby Neutraligon » Wed May 18, 2016 5:35 pm

Northern Freikur wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
And to hell with the possibility that they might get assaulted or murdered.


Murder and Assault are inevitable, And besides, I'm concerned about the same happening more frequently to Women.


Murder and assault are a rather large issue for trans people. Many trans people have been murdered and assaulted for their choice of restroom. The fact that you let this pass is rather disgusting. There is no evidence that shows allowing trans people to use the restroom of their choice would cause anything to happen more frequently to women, especially since trans people have for decades already been using the restroom of their choice.
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Des-Bal
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Postby Des-Bal » Wed May 18, 2016 5:36 pm

The V O I D wrote:
No, they shouldn't. It's psychologically damaging, they risk assault and murder, and if they already transitioned because they were born men or women but go into the 'right room' anyways [i.e. the men's room with ladyparts], they can risk rape or other serious crime.

You're advocating for discrimination and crimes against humanity that are unspeakable.


So exposing transgender people to men is creating a risk that they be raped. By that logic all transgender people should have to use the women's room and unisex bathrooms should be totally off the table.
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Neutraligon
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Postby Neutraligon » Wed May 18, 2016 5:37 pm

Northern Freikur wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:
Considering trans people have been assaulted and severely beaten or killed for their restroom choice, you are wrong about it being a first world problem. Second and they had it worse is not a good reason to ignore civil rights issues. Finally, when we desegregated based on race the white majority did not want that. How is desegregating based on gender/sex any different?


If the majority doesn't want it, It doesn't happen. That is how Democracy works.

Don't compare Gender to Race. If I tried to Identify as anything but White, I'd be lynched.


Why not compare gender to race; the arguments used again gender desegregation are the same used for race desegregation. And this is not an absolute Democracy, we have ways of ensuring that the will of the majority does not take away the rights of the minority. I doubt you would be lynched for identifying as anything but white.

We went against the majority when we desegregated based on race. This despite many people being uncomfortable with that idea. I ee no different between that and desegregating based on gender, despite many people being uncomfortable with that.
Last edited by Neutraligon on Wed May 18, 2016 5:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The V O I D
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Postby The V O I D » Wed May 18, 2016 5:37 pm

Northern Freikur wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:
Considering trans people have been assaulted and severely beaten or killed for their restroom choice, you are wrong about it being a first world problem. Second and they had it worse is not a good reason to ignore civil rights issues. Finally, when we desegregated based on race the white majority did not want that. How is desegregating based on gender/sex any different?


If the majority doesn't want it, It doesn't happen. That is how Democracy works.

Don't compare Gender to Race. If I tried to Identify as anything but White, I'd be lynched.


Yes, but according to the 61% majority that says gay marriage should be legalized and your logic, we should legalize gay marriage. And 54% majority advocates for gays being given the right to adopt. The majority of people are liberal pretty much everywhere.

And, we are comparing LGBTs to race because racism and homophobia/transphobia are the same; discrimination/hatred of a group of people just for being born the way they are. You can help your sexuality and gender identity just about as much as you can your skin color.

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Northern Freikur
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Postby Northern Freikur » Wed May 18, 2016 5:38 pm

The V O I D wrote:
Northern Freikur wrote:
Murder and Assault are inevitable, And besides, I'm concerned about the same happening more frequently to Women.


Women aren't being discriminated against as severely as the LGBT community, especially transgenders.

But, since you seem to like to ignore the facts in favor of a worldview wherein transgenders just need to "suck it up" because obviously they don't risk death, rape, etc. or anything every time they go into the bathroom not matching their identity...


Anyone who rapes a TG is truly desperate...

I don't see what facts I'm ignoring. The facts that you all are ignoring is that Men are Men, and Women are Women.

And, It ain't discrimination that Women face. It's abuse at the hands of perverted men who "identify" as Women. (the belief that actual TG's are Perverted not being held in this case)
Last edited by Northern Freikur on Wed May 18, 2016 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The V O I D
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Postby The V O I D » Wed May 18, 2016 5:39 pm

Des-Bal wrote:
The V O I D wrote:
No, they shouldn't. It's psychologically damaging, they risk assault and murder, and if they already transitioned because they were born men or women but go into the 'right room' anyways [i.e. the men's room with ladyparts], they can risk rape or other serious crime.

You're advocating for discrimination and crimes against humanity that are unspeakable.


So exposing transgender people to men is creating a risk that they be raped. By that logic all transgender people should have to use the women's room and unisex bathrooms should be totally off the table.


No, there are also women sexual assault convicts out there. They would also likely try to rape FtM transgenders who had the transition and walked into the ladies' room with a penis because we forced them. That's why they should either use the bathroom of their identity in any case, especially when transition is done, or all bathrooms should be made unisex.

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Neutraligon
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Postby Neutraligon » Wed May 18, 2016 5:40 pm

Northern Freikur wrote:
The V O I D wrote:
Women aren't being discriminated against as severely as the LGBT community, especially transgenders.

But, since you seem to like to ignore the facts in favor of a worldview wherein transgenders just need to "suck it up" because obviously they don't risk death, rape, etc. or anything every time they go into the bathroom not matching their identity...


Anyone who rapes a TG is truly desperate...

I don't see what facts I'm ignoring. The facts that you all are ignoring is that Men are Men, and Women are Women.

And, It ain't discrimination that Women face. It's abuse at the hands of perverted men who "identify" as Women.


We have already shown that man and woman is a subjective term based mostly on appearance. Desperation has nothing to do with it, as with most rapes. There is little evidence that women face any danger from transgender individuals in the restroom, as has been shown by the last however many decades of transgender individuals already using the restroom of their choice.
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The V O I D
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Postby The V O I D » Wed May 18, 2016 5:41 pm

Northern Freikur wrote:
The V O I D wrote:
Women aren't being discriminated against as severely as the LGBT community, especially transgenders.

But, since you seem to like to ignore the facts in favor of a worldview wherein transgenders just need to "suck it up" because obviously they don't risk death, rape, etc. or anything every time they go into the bathroom not matching their identity...


Anyone who rapes a TG is truly desperate...

I don't see what facts I'm ignoring. The facts that you all are ignoring is that Men are Men, and Women are Women.

And, It ain't discrimination that Women face. It's abuse at the hands of perverted men who "identify" as Women. (the belief that actual TG's are Perverted not being held in this case)


Actually, in all states with transgender protection laws that allow them to use the bathroom that fits their gender identity? I bet it'd surprise you that according to their records [some of them have had such laws for 10 years], no women have been taken advantage of because of the law. So, that argument even still is invalid.

And I'm not ignore the fact - women are women. Even if they happened to be born with the male body parts first and don't identify as a man. Glad we agree.

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Noraika
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Postby Noraika » Wed May 18, 2016 5:41 pm

Northern Freikur wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
And to hell with the possibility that they might get assaulted or murdered.


Murder and Assault are inevitable, And besides, I'm concerned about the same happening more frequently to Women.

Implying transwoman aren't women.

Implying that there is a threat to bathroom safety despite the fact that numerous cities, states, and countries have had laws for over a dozen years which allow individuals to use facilities according to their gender identity, and have found that to be an unfounded concern.

Ignoring the fact that transgender individuals are beaten, rapid, and harassed, or even killed, and they are not found to be a group which puts othet people in danger.

Also it may be good for you to know that several transgender people are either in v the military or are veterans, so this group includes the people who fight for your freedom and serve their country bravely and with great dignity.
LOVEWHOYOUARE~
TRANSEQUALITY~
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