North Carolina Passes "Anti-LGBT" Bill

[Northern Freikur]

I'm an American (although, I'm getting farther and farther from being proud of it), and I have completely lost faith in our public schooling. This shouldn't even be a debate. The Men's room is for those with "outdoor plumbing", the Women's room is for those with "Indoor Plumbing".

If I ever decide to have children, far be it from me to send them to public school here in America, the quality of education sucks, bathroom signs no longer matter, and they've all got a leftist bias (or at least they do in California). I'd either opt for online (which is my first choice), or just move out.

I also encourage any parents out there to do the same.

Not how it works. A woman is a woman when she identifies as such. A man is a man when he identifies as such. The transition surgery isn't always perfect or done well, not everyone can afford it, and sometimes changing birth records takes a long time. So, bathroom signs shouldn't matter; we should have unisex bathrooms, but if we're going to keep it segregated, let people who identify as women use the correct bathroom - the women's room - and let people who identify as men do the same.

So you say that I can "identify" as a Woman at any time, for any reason, and then identify as "Man" again? I'm going to steal the regressive liberal "Get Educated" term. If you need to look up the definition of "man" and "woman", there is the Internet, and there are dictionaries.

I will also bring up my AH64 argument.

[Wallenburg]

I'm an American (although, I'm getting farther and farther from being proud of it), and I have completely lost faith in our public schooling. This shouldn't even be a debate. The Men's room is for those with "outdoor plumbing", the Women's room is for those with "Indoor Plumbing".

If I ever decide to have children, far be it from me to send them to public school here in America, the quality of education sucks, bathroom signs no longer matter, and they've all got a leftist bias (or at least they do in California). I'd either opt for online (which is my first choice), or just move out.

I also encourage any parents out there to do the same.

This has absolutely nothing to do with the topic. Try writing on-topic next time.

[The V O I D]

Pardon? What do you mean by that?

Unisex bathrooms are a better idea.

If we're keeping segregated facilities why is it better to go by the person's gender identity than their sex?

Unisex bathrooms are a good idea. Glad we agree on that.

Also, it's better because, say they did go through a transition surgery and such to change their parts, are you really going to force a woman with womanly parts into the men's room just because she was born with a penis originally?

[Neutraligon]

Pardon? What do you mean by that?

Unisex bathrooms are a better idea.

If we're keeping segregated facilities why is it better to go by the person's gender identity than their sex?

Safety of the person who does not fulfill gender norms. For instance trans women who pass as women but who have a penis. Going to the men's room could place them in danger. Similarly trans men who pass as men going to the woman's room could place them in danger.

[Northern Freikur]

Unisex bathrooms are a better idea.

If we're keeping segregated facilities why is it better to go by the person's gender identity than their sex?

Unisex bathrooms are a good idea. Glad we agree on that.

Do you hold the same views on lockers, showers, etc...

And are you Biologically Male or Female?

And which do you Identify as?

[Neutraligon]

Not how it works. A woman is a woman when she identifies as such. A man is a man when he identifies as such. The transition surgery isn't always perfect or done well, not everyone can afford it, and sometimes changing birth records takes a long time. So, bathroom signs shouldn't matter; we should have unisex bathrooms, but if we're going to keep it segregated, let people who identify as women use the correct bathroom - the women's room - and let people who identify as men do the same.

So you say that I can "identify" as a Woman at any time, for any reason, and then identify as "Man" again? I'm going to steal the regressive liberal "Get Educated" term. If you need to look up the definition of "man" and "woman", there is the Internet, and there are dictionaries.

I will also bring up my AH64 argument.

There are those that are gender fluid, so yes there are those who have their gender change. A man (as viewed by society) is typically someone who fulfills certain gender roles as assigned by society. It does not necessarily mean someone born with a penis, or even someone who has xy chromosomes. Hell male might not even be someone who has XY chromosomes, as XX males exist.

[Northern Freikur]

So you say that I can "identify" as a Woman at any time, for any reason, and then identify as "Man" again? I'm going to steal the regressive liberal "Get Educated" term. If you need to look up the definition of "man" and "woman", there is the Internet, and there are dictionaries.

I will also bring up my AH64 argument.

There are those that are gender fluid, so yes there are those who have their gender change. A man (as viewed by society) is typically someone who fulfills certain gender roles as assigned by society. It does not necessarily mean someone born with a penis, or even someone who has xy chromosomes. Hell male might not even be someone who has XY chromosomes, as XX males exist.

Then why do we even have the words "Male" and "Female"?

[Noraika]

Not how it works. A woman is a woman when she identifies as such. A man is a man when he identifies as such. The transition surgery isn't always perfect or done well, not everyone can afford it, and sometimes changing birth records takes a long time. So, bathroom signs shouldn't matter; we should have unisex bathrooms, but if we're going to keep it segregated, let people who identify as women use the correct bathroom - the women's room - and let people who identify as men do the same.

So you say that I can "identify" as a Woman at any time, for any reason, and then identify as "Man" again? I'm going to steal the regressive liberal "Get Educated" term. If you need to look up the definition of "man" and "woman", there is the Internet, and there are dictionaries.

I will also bring up my AH64 argument.

Usually I get my information and education from well-respected and accredited professional associations in their fields, who've done extensive and detailed studies on a given topic, and trust their findings, especially in the case of widespread consensus. But, once again, if you say so it must be true, eh?

So yeah, if you say so.

[The V O I D]

Not how it works. A woman is a woman when she identifies as such. A man is a man when he identifies as such. The transition surgery isn't always perfect or done well, not everyone can afford it, and sometimes changing birth records takes a long time. So, bathroom signs shouldn't matter; we should have unisex bathrooms, but if we're going to keep it segregated, let people who identify as women use the correct bathroom - the women's room - and let people who identify as men do the same.

So you say that I can "identify" as a Woman at any time, for any reason, and then identify as "Man" again? I'm going to steal the regressive liberal "Get Educated" term. If you need to look up the definition of "man" and "woman", there is the Internet, and there are dictionaries.

I will also bring up my AH64 argument.

"regressive liberal." Yeah, and I suppose conservatives are so progressive.

As for your other comment - it's not easy to take advantage of. Most transgenders who identify as the opposite gender to their sex can sometimes try to look as much like that gender as possible. I.e. crossdressing, shaving alot, doing whatever until they get a transition. Also, male and female aren't absolutes. Sex/gender aren't the same thing. People can change.

If you want to play that game of 'get educated', here are some definitions for you.

Gender:
1. the state of being male or female (typically used with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones).
2. (in languages such as Latin, Greek, Russian, and German) each of the classes (typically masculine, feminine, common, neuter) of nouns and pronouns distinguished by the different inflections that they have and require in words syntactically associated with them. Grammatical gender is only very loosely associated with natural distinctions of sex.

Sex: either of the two main categories (male and female) into which humans and many other living things are divided on the basis of their reproductive functions.

Educate yourself, friend. Are you going to force a woman with lady parts into the men's room because she was born with a penis once? Also, how will you be able to tell if she still has 'man parts' if she crossdresses or looks very feminine and takes hormones?

[Des-Bal]

Unisex bathrooms are a good idea. Glad we agree on that.

Also, it's better because, say they did go through a transition surgery and such to change their parts, are you really going to force a woman with womanly parts into the men's room just because she was born with a penis originally?

First, I was referring to "outdoor v indoor plumbing" as an alternative to gender identity but if we're talking about biological sex then fine. If the separation is pointless why is one criteria more worthy than the other?

[Northern Freikur]

Not how it works. A woman is a woman when she identifies as such. A man is a man when he identifies as such. The transition surgery isn't always perfect or done well, not everyone can afford it, and sometimes changing birth records takes a long time. So, bathroom signs shouldn't matter; we should have unisex bathrooms, but if we're going to keep it segregated, let people who identify as women use the correct bathroom - the women's room - and let people who identify as men do the same.

So you say that I can "identify" as a Woman at any time, for any reason, and then identify as "Man" again? I'm going to steal the regressive liberal "Get Educated" term. If you need to look up the definition of "man" and "woman", there is the Internet, and there are dictionaries.

I will also bring up my AH64 argument.

Usually I get my information and education from well-respected and accredited professional associations in their fields, who've done extensive and detailed studies on a given topic, and trust their consensu. But, once again, if you say so it must be true, eh?

So yeah, if you say so. [/quote]

Uh, Misquote...

[Neutraligon]

Unisex bathrooms are a good idea. Glad we agree on that.

Do you hold the same views on lockers, showers, etc...

And are you Biologically Male or Female?

And which do you Identify as?

I assume that is a question for the forum. i have always failed to understand why society has such issues with the naked body. I feel the naked body is not something to be ashamed of or hidden. I feel that there is no difference between a male or female seeing my naked body.

[The V O I D]

Unisex bathrooms are a good idea. Glad we agree on that.

Do you hold the same views on lockers, showers, etc...

And are you Biologically Male or Female?

And which do you Identify as?

Biologically, my sex is male. And my gender identity is male.

But I respect that other biological men can identify as women, and so on.

[Noraika]

Uh, Misquote...

Believe I've fixed it.

Still I guess we ought to just take your word for it eh friend?

[The V O I D]

Unisex bathrooms are a good idea. Glad we agree on that.

Also, it's better because, say they did go through a transition surgery and such to change their parts, are you really going to force a woman with womanly parts into the men's room just because she was born with a penis originally?

First, I was referring to "outdoor v indoor plumbing" as an alternative to gender identity but if we're talking about biological sex then fine. If the separation is pointless why is one criteria more worthy than the other?

I wasn't talking about biological sex. The person was born biologically male, but got a transition surgery because they identified as female, and they now have lady parts. That's what I was referring to: are you going to force a woman in that situation into the men's room because she used to have a penis?

Also, gender identity is important because, you know, it's who the person is. They just happen to have the wrong parts [assuming they didn't get transitioned].

[Northern Freikur]

So you say that I can "identify" as a Woman at any time, for any reason, and then identify as "Man" again? I'm going to steal the regressive liberal "Get Educated" term. If you need to look up the definition of "man" and "woman", there is the Internet, and there are dictionaries.

I will also bring up my AH64 argument.

"regressive liberal." Yeah, and I suppose conservatives are so progressive.

As for your other comment - it's not easy to take advantage of. Most transgenders who identify as the opposite gender to their sex can sometimes try to look as much like that gender as possible. I.e. crossdressing, shaving alot, doing whatever until they get a transition. Also, male and female aren't absolutes. Sex/gender aren't the same thing. People can change.

If you want to play that game of 'get educated', here are some definitions for you.

Gender:
1. the state of being male or female (typically used with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones).
2. (in languages such as Latin, Greek, Russian, and German) each of the classes (typically masculine, feminine, common, neuter) of nouns and pronouns distinguished by the different inflections that they have and require in words syntactically associated with them. Grammatical gender is only very loosely associated with natural distinctions of sex.

Sex: either of the two main categories (male and female) into which humans and many other living things are divided on the basis of their reproductive functions.

Educate yourself, friend. Are you going to force a woman with lady parts into the men's room because she was born with a penis once? Also, how will you be able to tell if she still has 'man parts' if she crossdresses or looks very feminine and takes hormones?

If one has gone through reassignment, then It's no longer really an issue.

As for the definition, I don't give a @#$%^&*. Seriously, let page 136 remain on page 136.
Either way, I feel that Words should be able to identify with any definition that they feel like identifying to...

By "regressive liberal", I mean:
-Those who hate whites
-Those who hate men
-Those who hate Christians
-Those who want to silence conservatives
-And think that it is all justified

As far as I can tell, you are one of them...

[Neutraligon]

There are those that are gender fluid, so yes there are those who have their gender change. A man (as viewed by society) is typically someone who fulfills certain gender roles as assigned by society. It does not necessarily mean someone born with a penis, or even someone who has xy chromosomes. Hell male might not even be someone who has XY chromosomes, as XX males exist.

Then why do we even have the words "Male" and "Female"?

As I said male is usually applied to a person who has particular traits, namely a certain body shape and genitalia/secondary sex characteristics, which typically though not always occurs when a person is XY. Because of this physiology, these people tend to get certain diseases at a different rate from those who are typically called female at birth (who tend to have a different shape and genitalia/secondary sex characteristics). Thus the term male and female is useful when it comes to medical concepts. It has little use outside of that.

[Northern Freikur]

Then why do we even have the words "Male" and "Female"?

As I said male is usually applied to a person who has particular traits, namely a certain body shape and genitalia/secondary sex characteristics, which typically though not always occurs when a person is XY. Because of this physiology, these people tend to get certain diseases at a different rate from those who are typically called female at birth (who tend to have a different shape and genitalia/secondary sex characteristics).

But what if one decides to identify as the gender opposite their biology, traits, and roles?

[The V O I D]

"regressive liberal." Yeah, and I suppose conservatives are so progressive.

As for your other comment - it's not easy to take advantage of. Most transgenders who identify as the opposite gender to their sex can sometimes try to look as much like that gender as possible. I.e. crossdressing, shaving alot, doing whatever until they get a transition. Also, male and female aren't absolutes. Sex/gender aren't the same thing. People can change.

If you want to play that game of 'get educated', here are some definitions for you.

Gender:
1. the state of being male or female (typically used with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones).
2. (in languages such as Latin, Greek, Russian, and German) each of the classes (typically masculine, feminine, common, neuter) of nouns and pronouns distinguished by the different inflections that they have and require in words syntactically associated with them. Grammatical gender is only very loosely associated with natural distinctions of sex.

Sex: either of the two main categories (male and female) into which humans and many other living things are divided on the basis of their reproductive functions.

Educate yourself, friend. Are you going to force a woman with lady parts into the men's room because she was born with a penis once? Also, how will you be able to tell if she still has 'man parts' if she crossdresses or looks very feminine and takes hormones?

If one has gone through reassignment, then It's no longer really an issue.

As for the definition, I don't give a @#$%^&*. Seriously, let page 136 remain on page 136.

By "regressive liberal", I mean:
-Those who hate whites
-Those who hate men
-Those who hate Christians
-Those who want to silence conservatives
-And think that it is all justified

The thing is, I'm not a regressive liberal. Pretty sure no one here is. We just want to give people their rights when they have been discriminated against throughout humankind's history. Also, I'm pretty sure even if regressive liberals, as you call them, do exist; none meet all the criteria you present. Freedom of religion is also freedom from religion. Therefor, no religious laws may be made. This is democracy. We give rights. We don't take them away and enforce Christian law.

[Northern Freikur]

If one has gone through reassignment, then It's no longer really an issue.

As for the definition, I don't give a @#$%^&*. Seriously, let page 136 remain on page 136.

By "regressive liberal", I mean:
-Those who hate whites
-Those who hate men
-Those who hate Christians
-Those who want to silence conservatives
-And think that it is all justified

The thing is, I'm not a regressive liberal. Pretty sure no one here is. We just want to give people their rights when they have been discriminated against throughout humankind's history. Also, I'm pretty sure even if regressive liberals, as you call them, do exist; none meet all the criteria you present. Freedom of religion is also freedom from religion. Therefor, no religious laws may be made. This is democracy. We give rights. We don't take them away and enforce Christian law.

More justification from the Authoritarian Left...

It happened in Rome, It will happen here as well. If you don't understand what I mean, then you were never intended to understand it.

[Neutraligon]

As I said male is usually applied to a person who has particular traits, namely a certain body shape and genitalia/secondary sex characteristics, which typically though not always occurs when a person is XY. Because of this physiology, these people tend to get certain diseases at a different rate from those who are typically called female at birth (who tend to have a different shape and genitalia/secondary sex characteristics).

But what if one decides to identify as the gender opposite their biology, traits, and roles?

Until transition has actually occured, and even after that considering genetics, those issues still remain. As a not man and woman and male and female are not the same. male and female are medical terms for people who have specific genital and secondary sexual characteristics like larger breasts, a certain body facial shape, etc. A man or woman (as far as society is concerned) tends to deal with how a person looks with clothes on as well as how they present themselves. That is why a person who looks and acts highly feminine is called a woman, even if they have a penis, by most people who meet her. Man and woman and male and female are not the same thing. Man and woman can also have a different meaning when it comes to personal identity although there is overlap.

[The V O I D]

As I said male is usually applied to a person who has particular traits, namely a certain body shape and genitalia/secondary sex characteristics, which typically though not always occurs when a person is XY. Because of this physiology, these people tend to get certain diseases at a different rate from those who are typically called female at birth (who tend to have a different shape and genitalia/secondary sex characteristics).

But what if one decides to identify as the gender opposite their biology, traits, and roles?

Then they are that gender. Simple. A woman is a woman when she identifies as such. A man is a man when he identifies as such. It just so happens they were born with the wrong parts. Also, let me explain something: they've recently proven that transgender brains are different from non-transgender brains. Transgender brains, in the parts of their brain that allow for gender identification, are always the same size as the gender they identify with. For example; a male transgender [MtF] has the gender identification center of a female. And a female transgender [FtM] has the gender identification center of a male. Sexuality works similarly; the sexuality center varies dependent upon person's sexuality.

In other words, it's not a choice. It's a fundamental part of them. To make it even simpler: it's a woman's brain in a man's body, or a man's brain in a woman's body, and they want to fix that or get to as close as they can to fixing that. And disallowing them from using the correct bathroom [i.e. conforming with gender identity] is psychologically damaging, as it is essentially saying a woman must go into the men's room just because she has a penis.

[The Northern Chinese Provinces]

I'm rather surprised that no thread has been started yet. Unfortunately, I've never posted one of these and I'm not in the mood to write up anything special, but I'd like to hear everyone's opinions on this.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/24/us/no ... ender.html

http://time.com/4270246/north-carolina- ... nder-rule/

---

Personally, I'm all for the bill.

I think it's absolute bs when people claim that it's "anti-LGBT", as well. The bill only mentioned transgenders, not gays and lesbians as Sarah Preston says.

“North Carolina has gone against the trend,” said Sarah Preston, the executive director for the North Carolina office of the American Civil Liberties Union. “And they crafted a bill that was more extreme than others. They specifically left gays, lesbians and the transgender community out of the antidiscrimination policy. They want to make it plain that they think that kind of discrimination is O.K.”

Additional points for the law:

Chloe Jefferson, a junior at Greenville Christian Academy, said letting biological males into women’s bathrooms would expose girls to sexual predators, adding, “Girls like me should never be made to shower and undress in front of boys.”

Republicans stressed that the bill was passed not just to protect women and children from unwanted and potentially dangerous intrusions by biological males, but also to clarify legislative authority. On the House floor, Representative Dan Bishop, a Republican who sponsored the bill, described Charlotte’s decision to enact an antidiscrimination measure as an “egregious overreach.” With the state bill, he said, “What we are doing is preserving a sense of privacy people have long expected.”

Number one: LGBT stands for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender/sexual, if I remember correctly.

Number two: Name me a single case of a transgender predator. I would bet you $50 you can't find one.

[Des-Bal]

I wasn't talking about biological sex. The person was born biologically male, but got a transition surgery because they identified as female, and they now have lady parts. That's what I was referring to: are you going to force a woman in that situation into the men's room because she used to have a penis?

Also, gender identity is important because, you know, it's who the person is. They just happen to have the wrong parts [assuming they didn't get transitioned].

You specifically are, you're saying determining room by biological sex rather than "plumbing." Why not?

If the separation is meaningless then I fail to see how the criteria for the separation can rise above meaniniglessness.

[The V O I D]

The thing is, I'm not a regressive liberal. Pretty sure no one here is. We just want to give people their rights when they have been discriminated against throughout humankind's history. Also, I'm pretty sure even if regressive liberals, as you call them, do exist; none meet all the criteria you present. Freedom of religion is also freedom from religion. Therefor, no religious laws may be made. This is democracy. We give rights. We don't take them away and enforce Christian law.

More justification from the Authoritarian Left...

It happened in Rome, It will happen here as well. If you don't understand what I mean, then you were never intended to understand it.

You're obviously ultraconservative. I advocate for giving people rights. You advocate they never get rights. Those are the facts as I understand them, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong and you want to allow for transgenders to use the correct bathroom [conform with their gender identity].