North Carolina Passes "Anti-LGBT" Bill

[Traditionalism]

I live in it, I'm not a part of it.

Do you vote in elections? Do you pay taxes? Do you interact with other people on a daily basis? Congratulations, you are a part of the world

I don't vote. I do the rest, and that does not make me a part of the modern world. Were I a part of the modern world, I would embrace the ideals of this modern world and share it's beliefs.

[Sunken Island of Rhinomuraena]

Do you vote in elections? Do you pay taxes? Do you interact with other people on a daily basis? Congratulations, you are a part of the world

I don't vote. I do the rest, and that does not make me a part of the modern world. Were I a part of the modern world, I would embrace the ideals of this modern world and share it's beliefs.

The modern world has no one belief. Look at the party divide in so many countries. You believe in what some people say, so you embrace the ideals of this modern world, and share it's beliefs.

[The Black Forrest]

What he said and what people do now are different.

People are trying to say they are loving by forcing others to follow their "moral" code.

There's nothing wrong with that.

A parent forces their children to behave a certain way, not because they hate them, but because they love them and know the child cannot see the consequences of their behavior or understand it.

It's not the opposite of love when you install laws that are ordained from above, on the contrary it's because you want others to know the truth.

A parent teaches their child because that's what has always been done.

That is vastly different from you expecting and forcing others to live by your "moral" code.

[Sunken Island of Rhinomuraena]

Are you so certain that there cannot be multiple truths? If one man says a bridge is grey and the other says that it is stone, you are saying that one of the men is telling a lie.
It is true that I am not a child of a god, and am not a descendant of a child that god created. There. A truth to refute thine.

>Are you so certain that there cannot be multiple truths?

Not in the metaphysical.


>If one man says a bridge is grey and the other says that it is stone, you are saying that one of the men is telling a lie.

I don't care about the material world, this doesn't hold any weight against the metaphysical.

Fine, we're onto ethics. Would you pull a lever to divert a train off a line with 5 homeless children on it, but have the train kill 2 homeless children? Some say yes. Some say no. They are both advocating what they believe to be the best solution. They each believe that they are saying the truth. They are saying their truth. The truths conflict. Boom.

[Linux and the X]

Sure. But you're no less a part of the modern world.

I live in it, I'm not a part of it.

How do you live in the modern world without being part of it, yet queer people must be part of it?

[Sunken Island of Rhinomuraena]

Are you so certain we have souls? We murder each other, not for food, but over faith. If we have souls, then in every persons soul lies evil. A soul, then becomes something of evil. In what way did all civilizations come to the same conclusion? The Romans didn't the Celts didn't, the Norse didn't, a small pretty small group of people did, and then these people went and killed more people to make people at least pretend to worship their gods. I understand your worshiping them, and other people worshiping their gods, but stop making me worship your gods. Live and let live.

>then in every persons soul lies evil

no. A humans nature is inherently evil. The soul is a fragment of God, hence we are created in His image.

>In what way did all civilizations come to the same conclusion? The Romans didn't the Celts didn't, the Norse didn't,

They did. They all understood that the physical realm is secondary to the metaphysical, that all life comes from an invisible higher realm. It's found in all of their religions and philosophies.

They had hierarchy, caste, and other signs of God's order.

> I understand your worshiping them, and other people worshiping their gods, but stop making me worship your gods. Live and let live.

I'm not forcing you to worship anyone. I want to create an atmosphere where God's will can be expressed making it others to see Him and His order, and His truth and through that, through following his structure and order we can be closer to Him. I don't care if you don't worship him, only that you follow the order and structure found in Him.

I agree that the metaphysical world can be above the physical. But I refuse to torture myself, make this life unbearable, to fit into the order of a control-obsessed god. AND I REFUSE TO USE RESTROOMS THAT LEAVE ME IN A ROOM SURROUNDED BY MEN AND BE THE ONLY ONE WITH A PROMINENT CHEST! And different middle parts... ect.

[Grenartia]

1. But how do you know?

2. But what about the logic of the Higher realm?

3. If its not worth convincing others, then why even follow it yourself?

>1. But how do you know?

1. Because this conclusion was arrived to by countless traditional civilizations. The metaphysical precedes the physical. 2. Not only this, but I believe in God, I am a Christian. I believe Jesus is the truth, and Jesus testifies this truth, that the spiritual realm is the highest, and the most important things come from On High, not from here, the physical.

>2. But what about the logic of the Higher realm?

3. It's not mortal temporal logic, and it's the logic I live by.

>3. If its not worth convincing others, then why even follow it yourself?

4. This is a really silly thing to ask. People are too far gone, too ingrained in this modern world and it's materialism. There are those of us who know the truth, and those are the ones I care about.

It isn't a question of being "worthy" or convincing others or not, it's the fact that many people in the modern world are simply incompatible with the truth, and as a consequence are pretty irrelevant to me, they're my opponents.

I follow it because it's the truth.[/quote]

1. How do you know they're right? For fucks' sakes, these are also the same people who thought the Earth was flat.

2. As am I.

3. Obviously not, or you wouldn't be anti-LGBT, or stuck in regressiveness.

4. So, what you're saying is that either you or God have automatically damned everyone without even an attempt to save them.

[Aphryss]

When someone has a flag exalting Ungern von Sternberg of all people, that's like a brightly coloured animal. It's nature's way of telling you that that person is toxic and shouldn't be engaged with. I mean, this was a man who makes Adolf fucking Hitler look like a left-wing progressive, and I am not being hyperbolic.

Does anyone have any idea how long it will be until this bill gets the judicial obliteration it so richly deserves? I mean, it's going to be torn to shreds by the courts, but until that happens there are real humans suffering for a piece of bad legislation based on a phantom boogeyman that's never actually existed.

[Linux and the X]

Does anyone have any idea how long it will be until this bill gets the judicial obliteration it so richly deserves? I mean, it's going to be torn to shreds by the courts, but until that happens there are real humans suffering for a piece of bad legislation based on a phantom boogeyman that's never actually existed.

Lawsuits have already been filed, and the AG (in accordance with his Oath of Office) will not be defending the law, so probably fairly soon. It's still a court proceeding, though.

[The Black Forrest]

Sure. But you're no less a part of the modern world.

I live in it, I'm not a part of it.

Ok. You don't want to be part of it then you don't get to have expectations on how it should work.

[Grenartia]

If you're a Christian, I would suggest doing as the Bible says and accept trans people.

Loving others doesn't mean you let them do whatever they want. It means you let them know they're in danger of destroying themselves, and it means you fight to create an atmosphere where the laws will reflect the order and structure from above.

Loving others also doesn't mean literally oppressing them to get them to do what you want.

[The Black Forrest]

Does anyone have any idea how long it will be until this bill gets the judicial obliteration it so richly deserves? I mean, it's going to be torn to shreds by the courts, but until that happens there are real humans suffering for a piece of bad legislation based on a phantom boogeyman that's never actually existed.

Lawsuits have already been filed, and the AG (in accordance with his Oath of Office) will not be defending the law, so probably fairly soon. It's still a court proceeding, though.

The amount of money they are loosing will force the change (paypall just cancelled setting up an op center there) Some companies are cancelling buisiness travel to the state.....

NC may have a great deal of weak faith but their need for money will force a change.

[Grenartia]

No it doesn't. Not about you. You're not a Eunuch.

Eh, "eunuch" (in the modern sense) isn't really a great translation. The original Greek term was εὐνουχίσθησαν, which easily includes trans women.

Also something to note, the Ethiopian eunuch is generally assumed to have been a transwoman.

[Eol Sha]

Unless you're the Governor of Georgia and bought out by the big corporations who literally threaten the jobs of your constituents.

Or you're the newly-elected Governor of Louisiana, and you work tirelessly to undo all of the damage (including a "religious freedom" executive order) the previous governor/one-time GOP presidential candidate did to your state.

I fucking love our new governor. So glad I voted for him.

I don't know John Bel Edwards' policies (I imagine he's a little more conservative than the average Dem), but the difference it makes to have a Democrat in charge is truly astounding.

[Grenartia]

Do you have proof that the word of God is the truth? Do you have citations from accepted sources? Do you have proof that god didn't change his/her mind? Do you have proof that the words you are referring to are actually from god?
I DEMAND PROOF!

I don't have proof, and I don't need proof. If you're looking for proof, then this isn't for you. Faith is by it's nature non-physical. You have to experience it yourself to understand what I mean.

So, without evidence, and without logic, how do you intend on settling faith-based disputes, such as between myself and you? I have experienced faith. I know God, I love God.

[Kannap]

I don't have proof, and I don't need proof. If you're looking for proof, then this isn't for you. Faith is by it's nature non-physical. You have to experience it yourself to understand what I mean.

So, without evidence, and without logic, how do you intend on settling faith-based disputes, such as between myself and you? I have experienced faith. I know God, I love God.

Exactly this, couldn't have said it better myself.

[Grenartia]

Because you can see the truth in it.

Here's what you're saying: "The Bible is true because it is the word of God. And it is the word of God because it is true. And it is true because it is the word of God. And it is the word of God because it is true. And it is true because it is the word of God. And it is the word of God because it is true. And it is true because it is the word of God. And it is the word of God because it is true. And it is true because it is the word of God. And it is the word of God because it is true..."

[Vassenor]

Do you have proof that the word of God is the truth? Do you have citations from accepted sources? Do you have proof that god didn't change his/her mind? Do you have proof that the words you are referring to are actually from god?
I DEMAND PROOF!

I don't have proof, and I don't need proof. If you're looking for proof, then this isn't for you. Faith is by it's nature non-physical. You have to experience it yourself to understand what I mean.

Yup, we're into Babel Fish territory.

[Sunken Island of Rhinomuraena]

(Image)
Here's what you're saying: "The Bible is true because it is the word of God. And it is the word of God because it is true. And it is true because it is the word of God. And it is the word of God because it is true. And it is true because it is the word of God. And it is the word of God because it is true. And it is true because it is the word of God. And it is the word of God because it is true. And it is true because it is the word of God. And it is the word of God because it is true..."

This is fabulous.

[Zoice]

How do you know that?

Because his word is the truth.

The good book is the good book cuz the good book says it is, and the good book knows it's good cuz a really good book would.

Your entire worldview is floating without a solid foundation, and no connection to the real world. In other words, it's a bullshit imaginary fairytale.

[Grenartia]

The problem is that your truth isn't everyone's truth. So while you might defend your truth, others will see it as you protecting something false.

That's not a problem with me. The opinions of others don't matter to me. Only the word of God and his Laws. They are the single universal truth.

I don't care if others see me as protecting something false, that doesn't matter to me.

And you are wrong. If you were right, then literally everyone who has experienced God would agree with you. And yet, most of us don't.

[Wallenburg]

I lived out the Christian life for 12 years. I can't understand why people believe in God. Even less can I understand why religious people oppress those who don't share their beliefs, and why they can't just leave their faith out of the law.

Except not all Christians are like that. I believe in God, of course, but I don't oppress those who don't share my beliefs. As well as living in America, I respect the separation of church and state that exists.

I know that. I didn't mean to insinuate that all religious people are like Traditionalism here.

[Yasluila]

What do I think about this bill? I THINK IT'S TIME FOR ME TO MOVE TO NORTH CAROLINA!

I sexually identify as attack helicopter... where is my bathroom sign???

[Vassenor]

What do I think about this bill? I THINK IT'S TIME FOR ME TO MOVE TO NORTH CAROLINA!

Oooookay...

[Grenartia]

Or you're the newly-elected Governor of Louisiana, and you work tirelessly to undo all of the damage (including a "religious freedom" executive order) the previous governor/one-time GOP presidential candidate did to your state.

I fucking love our new governor. So glad I voted for him.

I don't know John Bel Edwards' policies (I imagine he's a little more conservative than the average Dem), but the difference it makes to have a Democrat in charge is truly astounding.

He's a bit of a Dixiecrat, IMO, but still very worth voting for, and can put liberal and progressive policies in terms that the Republican legislature can understand, it seems, at least to me. And compared to Vitter and Jindal, JBE is basically Bernie Sanders.