American Gun Laws

[Vassenor]

1. Not all mass shootings make national news. Also, how do you know that you would probably have been killed in one of them or hiding under a rock?

2. My only comment is that there is a correlation between looser gun control and higher firearms death, but without further evidence, we can't really draw much in the way of conclusions from it.

3. And how often does that happen to you? And could you draw it and be able to shoot your assailant (three actions, draw, aim shoot) before they pulled the trigger (one action, shoot)?

Also your sig simply tells me you're unreasonable and unwilling to trust any viewpoint that disagrees with yours. Really confidence inspiring

2: Carrying restrictions are being loosened in many places, yet crime is going down.

Proof of causation rather than correlation please.

[Beaucoup]

Many Americans believe we need guns in order to scare the government when we start mass protests.


Also, we have a small demographic known as the "preppers," who are preparing for when the obviously evil and obviously still communist Russia invades us. They enjoy stockpiling ammunition.

[Imperializt Russia]

1. Not all mass shootings make national news. Also, how do you know that you would probably have been killed in one of them or hiding under a rock?

2. My only comment is that there is a correlation between looser gun control and higher firearms death, but without further evidence, we can't really draw much in the way of conclusions from it.

3. And how often does that happen to you? And could you draw it and be able to shoot your assailant (three actions, draw, aim shoot) before they pulled the trigger (one action, shoot)?

Also your sig simply tells me you're unreasonable and unwilling to trust any viewpoint that disagrees with yours. Really confidence inspiring

2: Carrying restrictions are being loosened in many places, yet crime is going down.

I don't see why that would be expected to change anything.

[Esternial]

Source?

If it's neither validated nor invalidated it means saying "it's our right" does not make an argument, because it's not. It might be. However such uncertainties does not make for acceptable argumentation.

I have yet to see a reasonable argument against Constitutional or open carry.

Personally I prefer concealed carry as it is no one business but my own whether or not I am armed.

Not really an answer to my question. If you can't back up your earlier statement, just admit it and don't make that statement again.

I agree with that line of thinking.

[Big Jim P]

2: Carrying restrictions are being loosened in many places, yet crime is going down.

Please prove the causation or don't repeat this ever again.

Where was causation mentioned? The post I was responding too mentioned correlation, not causation.

And don't tell me what to repeat or not.

[Fanosolia]

Right I forgot you're texan. Sorry about that. But then again, I didn't think it was that lax there. Like I know about the open carry movement, but that was about it.

Hey, on the topic of training, I'm curious of what you think of the idea of marksmanship/gun saftey classes in high schools? I remember that used to be a thing somewhere, or atleast if I recall from a thread a long time ago.

Open carry of long arms was always legal in Texas, and as of today, people with a CHL can carry openly. Now we just need Constitutional carry and we are good.

I posted about training in school a few pages back.

Aren't there people using the law to prove point or something though, no? Meh. Either what do you mean by constitutional carry?

Also, saw em now. Yeah, i've sorta warmed up to the idea, probably easier to convince people in the states as opposed to where I live.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Many Americans believe we need guns in order to scare the government when we start mass protests.


Also, we have a small demographic known as the "preppers," who are preparing for when the obviously evil and obviously still communist Russia invades us. They enjoy stockpiling ammunition.

I enjoy stockpiling ammunition too, it sucks it's so expensive though.

[Senatui Populoque Romano Summi]

I don't want to have my life in the hands of someone else... No person should have limitless power upon other people.

But what if that person only wants the good for you? What if they are just striving for you to be in a clean and crime free utopia?

Right, because elitist psychopaths always want what's best for you.

[Imperializt Russia]

Please prove the causation or don't repeat this ever again.

Where was causation mentioned? The post I was responding too mentioned correlation, not causation.

And don't tell me what to repeat or not.

Without causation, correlation is utterly meaningless.

"This rock keeps away tigers"

[Big Jim P]

Where was causation mentioned? The post I was responding too mentioned correlation, not causation.

And don't tell me what to repeat or not.

Without causation, correlation is utterly meaningless.

"This rock keeps away tigers"

Neu California brought up a correlation, and a false on at that.

[Vassenor]

Or do you not want to admit that people have found alternative methods to reduce crime other than taking your guns away?

[Esternial]

Please prove the causation or don't repeat this ever again.

Where was causation mentioned? The post I was responding too mentioned correlation, not causation.

And don't tell me what to repeat or not.

Right, sorry about that.

It's just that you're just sharing your opinion, which is good and all, but you don't really add an objective argument that validates your opinion.

[USS Monitor]

Where was causation mentioned? The post I was responding too mentioned correlation, not causation.

And don't tell me what to repeat or not.

Without causation, correlation is utterly meaningless.

"This rock keeps away tigers"

I bet it's especially effective in places like Nantucket that don't have a tiger problem in the first place.

[Neu California]

1. Not all mass shootings make national news. Also, how do you know that you would probably have been killed in one of them or hiding under a rock?

2. My only comment is that there is a correlation between looser gun control and higher firearms death, but without further evidence, we can't really draw much in the way of conclusions from it.

3. And how often does that happen to you? And could you draw it and be able to shoot your assailant (three actions, draw, aim shoot) before they pulled the trigger (one action, shoot)?

Also your sig simply tells me you're unreasonable and unwilling to trust any viewpoint that disagrees with yours. Really confidence inspiring

2: Carrying restrictions are being loosened in many places, yet crime is going down.

And yet, according to my source from 2015, it's still higher in areas with looser gun regulation. Whether that is meaningful is unknown due to a lack of evidence either way

[Esternial]

2: Carrying restrictions are being loosened in many places, yet crime is going down.

And yet, according to my source from 2015, it's still higher in areas with looser gun regulation. Whether that is meaningful is unknown due to a lack of evidence either way

Then I wonder why you bothered bringing it up.

Might've been better to find a study that interprets similar data and draws possible conclusions from it. The people doing those studies tend to be less biased than NSG'ers.

[Lavochkin]

And yet, according to my source from 2015, it's still higher in areas with looser gun regulation. Whether that is meaningful is unknown due to a lack of evidence either way

Then I wonder why you bothered bringing it up.

Might've been better to find a study that interprets similar data and draws possible conclusions from it. The people doing those studies tend to be less biased than NSG'ers.

The only data that supports gun-lovers in terms of "guns lower crime" are all done by right-wing polls or extremely vague data collectors.

[Texas and the Southwest]

When the government becomes corrupt and begins to take away the freedoms of the people, it is the people's RESPONSIBILITY to rise up against the government. How can one rise up against a corrupt government without the means to do so? Also, when you take the guns away only the law abiding citizens are going to obey the law. Why would a CRIMINAL turn in their guns just because the law says to.

[Neu California]

Without causation, correlation is utterly meaningless.

"This rock keeps away tigers"

Neu California brought up a correlation, and a false on at that.

Eh, no, you said they were falling even as gun restrictions were being loosened. I and my source simply said they they were higher in areas with looser gun restriction. The former and the latter are not mutually exclusive since the rate of gun deaths could be falling in areas where restrictions are being loosened but still be higher in areas where they aren't, due to perhaps starting off higher.

And yet, according to my source from 2015, it's still higher in areas with looser gun regulation. Whether that is meaningful is unknown due to a lack of evidence either way

Then I wonder why you bothered bringing it up.

Might've been better to find a study that interprets similar data and draws possible conclusions from it. The people doing those studies tend to be less biased than NSG'ers.

Because I don't like letting misinformation stand. Remember, Northern Freikur said "There is no correlation between violent crime and gun ownership/ gun legislation. Absolutely none," and I responded by proving with a source that there actually was a correlation. That's all I was trying to do, not make an argument about correlation or causation. I wonder why you thought I was doing otherwise.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Then I wonder why you bothered bringing it up.

Might've been better to find a study that interprets similar data and draws possible conclusions from it. The people doing those studies tend to be less biased than NSG'ers.

The only data that supports gun-lovers in terms of "guns lower crime" are all done by right-wing polls or extremely vague data collectors.

Kennesaw, Georgia is pretty commonly pointed to. Gun ownership became mandatory by law and the crime rate dropped a lot.

[Imperializt Russia]

When the government becomes corrupt and begins to take away the freedoms of the people, it is the people's RESPONSIBILITY to rise up against the government. How can one rise up against a corrupt government without the means to do so? Also, when you take the guns away only the law abiding citizens are going to obey the law. Why would a CRIMINAL turn in their guns just because the law says to.

Weapon amnesties were moderately successful in the UK.

Supposedly, a knife amnesty programme once received an anti-tank weapon.

[Vassenor]

When the government becomes corrupt and begins to take away the freedoms of the people, it is the people's RESPONSIBILITY to rise up against the government. How can one rise up against a corrupt government without the means to do so? Also, when you take the guns away only the law abiding citizens are going to obey the law. Why would a CRIMINAL turn in their guns just because the law says to.

And how likely is it that this will actually happen?

Re:Knife amnesties: And at least one replica Bat'leth.

[Lavochkin]

The only data that supports gun-lovers in terms of "guns lower crime" are all done by right-wing polls or extremely vague data collectors.

Kennesaw, Georgia is pretty commonly pointed to. Gun ownership became mandatory by law and the crime rate dropped a lot.

But look at Georgia as a whole.

[Vassenor]

The only data that supports gun-lovers in terms of "guns lower crime" are all done by right-wing polls or extremely vague data collectors.

Kennesaw, Georgia is pretty commonly pointed to. Gun ownership became mandatory by law and the crime rate dropped a lot.

But is one county in one state really a representative sample? What other factors were in play that could result in a crime reduction?

[Esternial]

Then I wonder why you bothered bringing it up.

Might've been better to find a study that interprets similar data and draws possible conclusions from it. The people doing those studies tend to be less biased than NSG'ers.

The only data that supports gun-lovers in terms of "guns lower crime" are all done by right-wing polls or extremely vague data collectors.

Don't really care whether it supports anyone or not.

I'd like it to be accurate so the right choices get made so improvements occur rather than that one particular side is "right" in the age-old infantile gun debate.

A nice example is the study I quoted a few pages back. The first line of their conclusion reads: "While the results are generally negative for the violence control effectiveness of gun control, the significance of the few supportive results should not be overlooked."

It very elegantly illustrates the objectivity I am looking for in this debate, which it is sorely lacking. It acknowledges both sides of the coin and at the same time invalidates neither. Yes, gon control doesn't seem effective in controlling violence, but there are few supportive results, and those results should be taken into account. Maybe that won't please fervent gun-control advocates and it won't please gun enthusiasts, but that's too bad. You can't bend objective evidence to suit your narrative.

Or am I being too demanding? Is expecting a modicum of an objective view from NSG on this heavily opinionated subject too much to ask for?

[Gun Manufacturers]

In America that is untrue, in the places were we have the least firearms we have the most crimes, and the most deaths. While some law abiding citizens might turn their guns in, no criminal would.

In the UK where we have four million privately owned firearms, strict licensing with severe penalties, and do not see "self-defence" as legitimate reason to own a firearm (except NI) - we've somehow managed to keep firearm crime, firearm deaths absurdly low and mass shootings nonexistent by comparison to the US.

And I believe this is far more due to culture than the measures of gun control we actually have.
American gun culture stinks.

Tougher penalties for crimes with firearms would make sense and is something I'd support, as that puts the focus on the criminals and not on a law abiding firearms owner.