American Gun Laws

[Esternial]

Open carry is not guaranteed by the Second Amendment. Try again.

Technically it is: "...keep and BEAR arms"

1. Doesn't specific at all times.
2. Concealed carry.

[Big Jim P]

When the choice is between restricting a right and not, then without good reason, the default (in any sensible place) is to not restrict. Constitutional Carry makes exercising ones right to bear arms easier.

Things is, I don't think open carry has been validated by the Supreme Court.

Nor has it been invalidated. Open carry is legal in quite a few states, and Constitutional Carry in seven (I believe. I don't have the exact number handy ATM) including some recent additions.

[Vassenor]

So why can't you exercise your second amendment right to walk down the road with your sword on display without being arrested?

[Esternial]

Where we can or not is also irrelevant to this discussion.

The important aspect to a debate is about whether we should.

There is no reason we should not.

This is a big decisions that impacts thousands of lives. That is in no way an acceptable argument to support something like this.

The government doesn't typically work like that, if you weren't aware until now.

[Big Jim P]

Technically it is: "...keep and BEAR arms"

1. Doesn't specific at all times.
2. Concealed carry.

1. No time is specified at all.
2. Open carry is also "bearing", and Constitutional Carry includes both concealed and open.

[Washington Resistance Army]

So why can't you exercise your second amendment right to walk down the road with your sword on display without being arrested?

AFAIK in California at least you can indeed carry a sword down the street, it just has to be openly displayed.

[Esternial]

1. Doesn't specific at all times.
2. Concealed carry.

1. No time is specified at all.
2. Open carry is also "bearing", and Constitutional Carry includes both concealed and open.

1. Which means it doesn't technically guarantee open or concealed carry.
2. Why doesn't concealed carry suffice?

[Big Jim P]

There is no reason we should not.

This is a big decisions that impacts thousands of lives. That is in no way an acceptable argument to support something like this.

The government doesn't typically work like that, if you weren't aware until now.

Constitutional carry and open carry shows no real impact on the average individual.

[Esternial]

This is a big decisions that impacts thousands of lives. That is in no way an acceptable argument to support something like this.

The government doesn't typically work like that, if you weren't aware until now.

Constitutional carry and open carry shows no real impact on the average individual.

Source?

Things is, I don't think open carry has been validated by the Supreme Court.

Nor has it been invalidated. Open carry is legal in quite a few states, and Constitutional Carry in seven (I believe. I don't have the exact number handy ATM) including some recent additions.

If it's neither validated nor invalidated it means saying "it's our right" does not make an argument, because it's not. It might be. However such uncertainties does not make for acceptable argumentation.

[Vassenor]

So why can't you exercise your second amendment right to walk down the road with your sword on display without being arrested?

AFAIK in California at least you can indeed carry a sword down the street, it just has to be openly displayed.

Then again how do you concealed-carry a sword? I mean I'm pretty sure cane swords weren't actually a real thing, but I could be wrong.

[Northern Freikur]

1: I doubt the statistics given in the opening statement. If there were over 350 mass shootings going on in 1 year, I would have probably been one of the supposed 12,000. Either that, Or I would be hidden under a rock.

2: There is no correlation between violent crime and gun ownership/ gun legislation. Absolutely none.

3: When someone is pointing an illegally obtained gun at me, I'd rather have the ability to match the firepower of the assailant.

If you wish to argue with me, know this: you must first read my sig.

[Big Jim P]

1. No time is specified at all.
2. Open carry is also "bearing", and Constitutional Carry includes both concealed and open.

1. Which means it doesn't technically guarantee open or concealed carry.
2. Why doesn't concealed carry suffice?

2: It does. That does not invalidate open carry.

[Washington Resistance Army]

AFAIK in California at least you can indeed carry a sword down the street, it just has to be openly displayed.

Then again how do you concealed-carry a sword? I mean I'm pretty sure cane swords weren't actually a real thing, but I could be wrong.

To expand on that, it also has to remain sheathed (no honorable duels for you). Cane swords actually are a thing, carrying one in public would be a misdemeanor though.

[Northern Freikur]

AFAIK in California at least you can indeed carry a sword down the street, it just has to be openly displayed.

Then again how do you concealed-carry a sword? I mean I'm pretty sure cane swords weren't actually a real thing, but I could be wrong.

They do exist. And yes, I can conceal a sword. Take it from someone who owns 5.

Again, cane swords did, and still do exist. I study the sword at length.

(Ok, yeah so I am a little over-armed)

[Northern Freikur]

Then again how do you concealed-carry a sword? I mean I'm pretty sure cane swords weren't actually a real thing, but I could be wrong.

To expand on that, it also has to remain sheathed (no honorable duels for you). Cane swords actually are a thing, carrying one in public would be a misdemeanor though.

Sheathed!? Why even have a sword if you can't draw it?!

[USS Monitor]

I mean I'm pretty sure cane swords weren't actually a real thing, but I could be wrong.

They exist.

I have a Japanese version. It's a 19th century design that was used by samurai who wanted to get around a Meiji-era ban on carrying swords in public.

[Gross Preussen-Deutschland]

And what is the probability of this dictator being benevolent? I wouldn't want to risk having another Hitler, Stalin, Mao... American constitutional democracy has guaranteed a certain level of freedom for centuries already.

Hitler actually relaxed gun laws by extending the permits and other things. Arming the German Jews would've done nothing to prevent the Holocaust, considering that only 1% of the German population in the mid-1930s was Jewish.

I doubt many people even had guns in Tsarist Russia, so they didn't need gun control that much since there were few people with them already.

[Big Jim P]

1: I doubt the statistics given in the opening statement. If there were over 350 mass shootings going on in 1 year, I would have probably been one of the supposed 12,000. Either that, Or I would be hidden under a rock.

2: There is no correlation between violent crime and gun ownership/ gun legislation. Absolutely none.

3: When someone is pointing an illegally obtained gun at me, I'd rather have the ability to match the firepower of the assailant.

If you wish to argue with me, know this: you must first read my sig.

Mass shooting stats are subject to being horribly distorted by gun-grabbers.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/1 ... g-numbers/

[Vassenor]

To expand on that, it also has to remain sheathed (no honorable duels for you). Cane swords actually are a thing, carrying one in public would be a misdemeanor though.

Sheathed!? Why even have a sword if you can't draw it?!

Same reason you can't carry your open carry rifle at the shoulder.

[Big Jim P]

Constitutional carry and open carry shows no real impact on the average individual.

Source?

Nor has it been invalidated. Open carry is legal in quite a few states, and Constitutional Carry in seven (I believe. I don't have the exact number handy ATM) including some recent additions.

If it's neither validated nor invalidated it means saying "it's our right" does not make an argument, because it's not. It might be. However such uncertainties does not make for acceptable argumentation.

I have yet to see a reasonable argument against Constitutional or open carry.

Personally I prefer concealed carry as it is no one business but my own whether or not I am armed.

[Neu California]

1: I doubt the statistics given in the opening statement. If there were over 350 mass shootings going on in 1 year, I would have probably been one of the supposed 12,000. Either that, Or I would be hidden under a rock.

2: There is no correlation between violent crime and gun ownership/ gun legislation. Absolutely none.

3: When someone is pointing an illegally obtained gun at me, I'd rather have the ability to match the firepower of the assailant.

If you wish to argue with me, know this: you must first read my sig.

1. Not all mass shootings make national news. Also, how do you know that you would probably have been killed in one of them or hiding under a rock?

2. My only comment is that there is a correlation between looser gun control and higher firearms death, but without further evidence, we can't really draw much in the way of conclusions from it.

3. And how often does that happen to you? And could you draw it and be able to shoot your assailant (three actions, draw, aim shoot) before they pulled the trigger (one action, shoot)?

Also your sig simply tells me you're unreasonable and unwilling to trust any viewpoint that disagrees with yours. Really confidence inspiring

[Occupied Deutschland]

And what is the probability of this dictator being benevolent? I wouldn't want to risk having another Hitler, Stalin, Mao... American constitutional democracy has guaranteed a certain level of freedom for centuries already.

Hitler actually relaxed gun laws by extending the permits and other things...

Provided you were approved by the Nazi party and/or Gestapo.
Personally, I tend to not classify that kind of thing as a 'relaxation' of gun laws in the same way I don't think the Southern states in the US 'relaxed' gun laws after the Civil war in specific ways designed to limit the availability of arms to blacks.
That's not a 'relaxation of gun laws'. It's government infringement that just happens to be targeted at specific populations. It's a rather pointless argument to say gun laws are relaxed if the basis of that relaxation depends upon broad swathes of people not 'counting' as people who have any claim to firearms because they aren't viewed as people.

[USS Monitor]

1: I doubt the statistics given in the opening statement. If there were over 350 mass shootings going on in 1 year, I would have probably been one of the supposed 12,000. Either that, Or I would be hidden under a rock.

They provided a definition of what they are counting as a "mass shooting." It's not limited to the "guy goes into a theatre and opens fire" type of stories that the media loves to plaster all over the headlines. Some of them were probably things like rival gangs shooting each other, which don't get the same media attention as dysfunctional white guys shooting up schools, theatres, etc.

2: There is no correlation between violent crime and gun ownership/ gun legislation. Absolutely none.

Prove it.

3: When someone is pointing an illegally obtained gun at me, I'd rather have the ability to match the firepower of the assailant.

OK.

[Big Jim P]

1: I doubt the statistics given in the opening statement. If there were over 350 mass shootings going on in 1 year, I would have probably been one of the supposed 12,000. Either that, Or I would be hidden under a rock.

2: There is no correlation between violent crime and gun ownership/ gun legislation. Absolutely none.

3: When someone is pointing an illegally obtained gun at me, I'd rather have the ability to match the firepower of the assailant.

If you wish to argue with me, know this: you must first read my sig.

1. Not all mass shootings make national news. Also, how do you know that you would probably have been killed in one of them or hiding under a rock?

2. My only comment is that there is a correlation between looser gun control and higher firearms death, but without further evidence, we can't really draw much in the way of conclusions from it.

3. And how often does that happen to you? And could you draw it and be able to shoot your assailant (three actions, draw, aim shoot) before they pulled the trigger (one action, shoot)?

Also your sig simply tells me you're unreasonable and unwilling to trust any viewpoint that disagrees with yours. Really confidence inspiring

2: Carrying restrictions are being loosened in many places, yet crime is going down.

[Esternial]

1. Not all mass shootings make national news. Also, how do you know that you would probably have been killed in one of them or hiding under a rock?

2. My only comment is that there is a correlation between looser gun control and higher firearms death, but without further evidence, we can't really draw much in the way of conclusions from it.

3. And how often does that happen to you? And could you draw it and be able to shoot your assailant (three actions, draw, aim shoot) before they pulled the trigger (one action, shoot)?

Also your sig simply tells me you're unreasonable and unwilling to trust any viewpoint that disagrees with yours. Really confidence inspiring

2: Carrying restrictions are being loosened in many places, yet crime is going down.

Please prove the causation or don't repeat this ever again.