American Gun Laws

[Alpinovia]

The has been recent turmoil over American gun laws. I want your opinion, should people own guns or not? Personally, I think no, I mean, what the point of owning one?

Other than creating a balance of power between the citizens of a nation and its government? Or practical home defense in isolated areas of the country?

Listen to yourself! "Defence in isolated areas of the country." Defence against what!? Other people with guns?

[Washington Resistance Army]

Other than creating a balance of power between the citizens of a nation and its government? Or practical home defense in isolated areas of the country?

Listen to yourself! "Defence in isolated areas of the country." Defence against what!? Other people with guns?

Yeah actually, criminals already don't obey gun laws (hence how you can get a black market machine gun fairly easily but they're almost entirely banned for legal possession) and police response times are up to something like an HOUR in some areas. Isolated areas also tend to have more animals and sometimes you need a weapon to deal with them.

[The Conez Imperium]

Listen to yourself! "Defence in isolated areas of the country." Defence against what!? Other people with guns?

Yeah actually, criminals already don't obey gun laws (hence how you can get a black market machine gun fairly easily but they're almost entirely banned for legal possession) and police response times are up to something like an HOUR in some areas. Isolated areas also tend to have more animals and sometimes you need a weapon to deal with them.

From an initial perspective, I doubt many criminals operate in isolated areas of the country. I mean if we're talking about some farm in the middle of corn country, then the only other criminals would be your neighbors or hooligans in a car road trip. But I find it hard to fathom a home invasion in Gulagambone (a community of 400 in outback Australia. Okay just think of an equivalent place in America) considering those isolated communities tend to be close knit.

[North Calaveras]

Okay I see now. We got a couple of lefties here with there entrenched and brainwashed beleifs about fire arms and they are not going to change no matter how much logic we throw at them. Recommend abort now I say again abort abort.

I've always been confused with the title of "left".

Is not everyone here "leftie" because they believe that the government should providing basic services for its citizens or that gay marriage should be legal?

What about 'North Calaveras' where in his signature, he supports gun rights and gay marriage?

Gun rights are not a left or right wing issue, but these groups MAKE it a polarized issue.

Gun rights are just that, the proection of yourself, your family and even your community should you need it. Hunting etc etc are secondary, but still important(especially concerning wild pigs)

"Liberals" aka "The left" aka "Progressives(which honestly I find to just be a nicer way of saying socialist)" turn it into a right-left issue.

for instance, I'm a gay married american male soldier, I don't define myself by a single party(because two many ideologies cannot fit under a two-party tent).

I merley believe in PERSONAL FREEDOM which I would have hoped more Americans these days believed in, it is becoming more apparent that it's less about freedom and more about security from criticism.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Yeah actually, criminals already don't obey gun laws (hence how you can get a black market machine gun fairly easily but they're almost entirely banned for legal possession) and police response times are up to something like an HOUR in some areas. Isolated areas also tend to have more animals and sometimes you need a weapon to deal with them.

From an initial perspective, I doubt many criminals operate in isolated areas of the country. I mean if we're talking about some farm in the middle of corn country, then the only other criminals would be your neighbors or hooligans in a car road trip. But I find it hard to fathom a home invasion in Gulagambone (a community of 400 in outback Australia. Okay just think of an equivalent place in America) considering those isolated communities tend to be close knit.

You'd be surprised, I've known more than a few backwoods tweakers

I just find the people who think America could just get rid of guns and be all happy to be very silly.

[Alpinovia]

Listen to yourself! "Defence in isolated areas of the country." Defence against what!? Other people with guns?

Yeah actually, criminals already don't obey gun laws (hence how you can get a black market machine gun fairly easily but they're almost entirely banned for legal possession) and police response times are up to something like an HOUR in some areas. Isolated areas also tend to have more animals and sometimes you need a weapon to deal with them.

You Americans get this 'right to a gun' law from your constitution, correct? Well here's a reality check, you are living by a document that is +200 years old, when owning a slave was like owning a pet, and the police force was non-existent!

[Washington Resistance Army]

Yeah actually, criminals already don't obey gun laws (hence how you can get a black market machine gun fairly easily but they're almost entirely banned for legal possession) and police response times are up to something like an HOUR in some areas. Isolated areas also tend to have more animals and sometimes you need a weapon to deal with them.

You Americans get this 'right to a gun' law from your constitution, correct? Well here's a reality check, you are living by a document that is +200 years old, when owning a slave was like owning a pet, and the police force was non-existent!

And that's supposed to mean what exactly? Plenty of us also get the right from our individual state constitutions as well. If you want to argue against them at least come up with something decent, not this retarded nonsense.

[The Conez Imperium]

Yeah actually, criminals already don't obey gun laws (hence how you can get a black market machine gun fairly easily but they're almost entirely banned for legal possession) and police response times are up to something like an HOUR in some areas. Isolated areas also tend to have more animals and sometimes you need a weapon to deal with them.

You Americans get this 'right to a gun' law from your constitution, correct? Well here's a reality check, you are living by a document that is +200 years old, when owning a slave was like owning a pet, and the police force was non-existent!

Well that's what all country's live by, including Australia. I mean it's completely arbitrary why us Aussies follow a piece of paper. Why not a rock or a spear? It's not the physical object that is important but the ideals that encompass it. For the Americans they felt that "being equal under God" was important and for us Aussies...well I don't know our constitution and I doubt the populace does either. The only real differences between constitutions of the world I find is that in some countries (France) people died to create the constitution whilst in Australia people didn't die to make it manifest.

[Alpinovia]

You Americans get this 'right to a gun' law from your constitution, correct? Well here's a reality check, you are living by a document that is +200 years old, when owning a slave was like owning a pet, and the police force was non-existent!

And that's supposed to mean what exactly? Plenty of us also get the right from our individual state constitutions as well. If you want to argue against them at least come up with something decent, not this retarded nonsense.

How are the state constitutions any different?

[Washington Resistance Army]

And that's supposed to mean what exactly? Plenty of us also get the right from our individual state constitutions as well. If you want to argue against them at least come up with something decent, not this retarded nonsense.

How are the state constitutions any different?

You act like we should disregard the 2A because it was written 200+ years ago, yet plenty of states have joined the Union in the not so distant past (my own state in 1889, Alaska and Hawaii in 1959) and have the right to bear arms in their own constitutions. What's your argument against that? Hell, do you even have any good arguments?

[Alpinovia]

How are the state constitutions any different?

You act like we should disregard the 2A because it was written 200+ years ago, yet plenty of states have joined the Union in the not so distant past (my own state in 1889, Alaska and Hawaii in 1959) and have the right to bear arms in their own constitutions. What's your argument against that? Hell, do you even have any good arguments?

My last comment wasn't an argument, it was a question.

[Alpinovia]

How are the state constitutions any different?

You act like we should disregard the 2A because it was written 200+ years ago, yet plenty of states have joined the Union in the not so distant past (my own state in 1889, Alaska and Hawaii in 1959) and have the right to bear arms in their own constitutions. What's your argument against that? Hell, do you even have any good arguments?

Why am I even arguing with you, of course you like guns, you're a GUNSMITH!

[Jochistan]

"After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people that didn't do it. I sure as hell don't want to live in a society where the only people allowed to have guns are the police and the military."
- William S Burroughs

Though universal background checks wouldn't hurt imo.

[Washington Resistance Army]

You act like we should disregard the 2A because it was written 200+ years ago, yet plenty of states have joined the Union in the not so distant past (my own state in 1889, Alaska and Hawaii in 1959) and have the right to bear arms in their own constitutions. What's your argument against that? Hell, do you even have any good arguments?

My last comment wasn't an argument, it was a question.

A question I answered, a number of them were written after the things you listed and still have the right to bear arms. So what was your point with bringing up "lol slavery and no police"? A number of them take it further and say the rights of the individual, not the militia (which is every male age 17-45, so sayeth the Militia Act) to bear arms shall not be infringed.

You act like we should disregard the 2A because it was written 200+ years ago, yet plenty of states have joined the Union in the not so distant past (my own state in 1889, Alaska and Hawaii in 1959) and have the right to bear arms in their own constitutions. What's your argument against that? Hell, do you even have any good arguments?

Why am I even arguing with you, of course you like guns, you're a GUNSMITH!

Aspiring gunsmith, my skills aren't all that great yet. I also fail to see the problem with that, yes I like guns but I'm also pretty knowledgeable on the topic and willing to see arguments from multiple points of view.

"After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people that didn't do it. I sure as hell don't want to live in a society where the only people allowed to have guns are the police and the military."
- William S Burroughs

Though universal background checks wouldn't hurt imo.

If the system is fixed yeah.

[Crockerland]

You act like we should disregard the 2A because it was written 200+ years ago, yet plenty of states have joined the Union in the not so distant past (my own state in 1889, Alaska and Hawaii in 1959) and have the right to bear arms in their own constitutions. What's your argument against that? Hell, do you even have any good arguments?

Why am I even arguing with you, of course you like guns, you're a GUNSMITH!

Anyone who likes basic human rights (especially the right to self-defense) likes guns.

[Herargon]

Why am I even arguing with you, of course you like guns, you're a GUNSMITH!

Anyone who likes basic human rights (especially the right to self-defense) likes guns.

False. I like basic human rights, but am fiercely against guns being allowed without regulation.
They should, no, they must be regulated, in order to make the United States safer.

[Alpinovia]

Why am I even arguing with you, of course you like guns, you're a GUNSMITH!

Anyone who likes basic human rights (especially the right to self-defense) likes guns.

The right to self defence? Really? That's what the police force is for, even if yours is racist and corrupt.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Anyone who likes basic human rights (especially the right to self-defense) likes guns.

False. I like basic human rights, but am fiercely against guns being allowed without regulation.
They should, no, they must be regulated, in order to make the United States safer.

No, they really shouldn't be. In fact, the Firearms Owners Protection Act actually legally banned any gun registry for non-NFA firearms.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Anyone who likes basic human rights (especially the right to self-defense) likes guns.

The right to self defence? Really? That's what the police force is for, even if yours is racist and corrupt.

False, our police legally are not required to protect you, so sayeth the Supreme Court. They exist to uphold the law, nothing more.

[Alpinovia]

The right to self defence? Really? That's what the police force is for, even if yours is racist and corrupt.

False, our police legally are not required to protect you, so sayeth the Supreme Court. They exist to uphold the law, nothing more.

*sighs*

Well isn't the law meant to protect you?

[Herargon]

False. I like basic human rights, but am fiercely against guns being allowed without regulation.
They should, no, they must be regulated, in order to make the United States safer.

No, they really shouldn't be. In fact, the Firearms Owners Protection Act actually legally banned any gun registry for non-NFA firearms.

Then why are there still school shootings and gun incidents, while in Europe that does happen on a much lower frequency and intensity?

It really, by all, should be regulated for that reason as well.

[Washington Resistance Army]

False, our police legally are not required to protect you, so sayeth the Supreme Court. They exist to uphold the law, nothing more.

*sighs*

Well isn't the law meant to protect you?

The law can't do much to protect you in the heat of the moment. I mean, for example, the police response time in my area averages out to about 15 minutes for them to show up after you first call. Not much they can do to help me in those 15 minutes.

No, they really shouldn't be. In fact, the Firearms Owners Protection Act actually legally banned any gun registry for non-NFA firearms.

Then why are there still school shootings and gun incidents, while in Europe that does happen on a much lower frequency and intensity?

It really, by all, should be regulated for that reason as well.

Because there's no way for NICS to identify who is crazy and going to go shoot up a school, and neither would a gun registry.

[Herargon]

False, our police legally are not required to protect you, so sayeth the Supreme Court. They exist to uphold the law, nothing more.

*sighs*

Well isn't the law meant to protect you?

The law = / = what you may and may not do.

It says you have rights such as the freedom of belief and the freedom of speech, but also are obliged to do certain things, such as taxes, adhering to traffic rules, etc.

The police exists to keep people abiding to the law, and to arrest those who don't.

[Alpinovia]

(Off topic)

Against: radicalism, fascism, nazism, communism, totalitarianism, authoritarianism, strong nationalism.

Wow Heraragon, you really don't like many isms do you?

[Herargon]

*sighs*

Well isn't the law meant to protect you?

The law can't do much to protect you in the heat of the moment. I mean, for example, the police response time in my area averages out to about 15 minutes for them to show up after you first call. Not much they can do to help me in those 15 minutes.

Then why are there still school shootings and gun incidents, while in Europe that does happen on a much lower frequency and intensity?

It really, by all, should be regulated for that reason as well.

Because there's no way for NICS to identify who is crazy and going to go shoot up a school, and neither would a gun registry.

There actually is a way for that. You could forbid mentally ill people that are registered in asylums from having guns. As well people under 38, people that registered as depressed, et cetera, et cetera... and gun registries certainly also will help to that. We do have that in most European countries, and thanks to that we have much less gun incidents.

There is literally no beneficial enough reason to not impose gun control.